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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just thought I would share this with everyone.

I've owned this bike from new, a 1997 T595. (It is one of the very early models that had a complete frame recall as well as 4/6 gear sieze, and a host of other warrenty issues.) I don't do many miles on it, just 18000 kM in 12 years. It is just a toy for me. I do the odd track day here in Sydney, as I used to road race in my youth, and still like to wring it out.

So, at the track last week, I was pulling max rpm in 2nd, coming onto a straight when "BANG". I got the clutch in pretty quick but from the sound and immediate loss of power, knew this would not be pretty.

On strip down, the balance shaft is snapped like a carrot. Its neeedle roller bearings broken, lots of damage to the casings, damage to the crank, b/shaft drive gear etc, and damage to 2 rods. Its a write off.. :mad: New engine required

So, is this a common occurance with Hinkleys tripples???

I actually love this bike. It pulls from way down low making it easy to ride without constant grear shifts, but when needed it will rev as hard as my old Hondas... I just never broke one of those..


Roger
 

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Roger, This is the first balance shaft failure I've heard of in a 955i engine, tho' I'm aware other brands have failed, it's a rare break overall.

You might search for some of DEcosse's (forum member) info and pics regarding a '02> D955i engine into the T595/T509 chassis. The later generation engine is light years ahead, more power on top and still pulls well from down low.

While it's a sad note that brought you here, welcome to the forum.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Brad,

I've never ever head of a balance shaft breaking before, but it obviously happens. Pity it picked my bike...

I have been lurking here for a bit to get a bit of info on these engines. I found this post by DEcosse on T595 engine upgrades to 955i versions. (BTW DEcosse certainly seems to be the guru on this triple and all its variations.)

All the 955cc Triple FI engines from 97 thru current - S3, Tiger, Daytona, Sprint & even 1050 Speed Triples will fit in the frame. The differences become various ancillary changes and the ECM system & associated tune.

The Daytona motors have higher hp at the possible expense of some mid-range torque which the S3's favour and the motors have shot-peened cranks & rods.

By 98, the 4th gear should be resolved - if you search on here you can find the exact engine number for worry-free.
Sprag clutch can still be a problem on 98 T595's though.

If you go with a 955i motor 99-01, you'd be better off just using the head it comes with - inproved exhaust cam for better mid-range. Throttle bodies & air bypass control also improved for better low rpm control & response, so if you can get the complete intake go for that too.

You may need to custom program the early ECM 1000 in the T595 with Tuneboy to have it run with a good tune. Tunes are not directly swappable between the earlier model MC2000 ECM & the later MC1000.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bradtx
... Likely best to get a '02 and later Daytona 955i engine if you can get the ECU and it's harness. The '02 and later engines will also require an external voltage regulator ....

Need a few more pieces than that Brad ......
If you get a late 02+ motor, much more extensive swap (although the motor itself bolts right in) but significantly more hp. But you will need wiring harness, ECM, airbox, headers, exhaust, h2o cooling system, oil cooler, rear fender/battery box, brake rearset, instruments & regulator/rectifier from the late model too.

That info kinda made me look to put a 97-99 engine in as it means minimum fuss.

I've actullay found a 98 T595 engine at a breakers, but its head at least is in pretty poor shape with rusty valve guides and seats.. The bottom half may be ok so I will try to come to an arrangement with the breaker..

Thanks for the welcome. :)

Roger
 

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Roger, The magic number for the factory 4th gear upgrade is engine number 57946. Plus side is you'll have a cylinder head to tinker with.

While things are apart and you may've done all this anyway, Triumph also offered a 'racing' camshaft kit for the '97 and '98s that basically is the '99 and later cams and sprockets. IIRC the '97-'98 exhaust cam is five degrees retarded to the '99 and later D955i engines. The '99> primary tubes and collector was also redesigned to allow more ground clearance on right hand turns.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Roger, The magic number for the factory 4th gear upgrade is engine number 57946. Brad
Thanks again Brad.. Very useful info. Attached is pics of my new/old engine from the breakers. Its' serial number is L067678, which means it has the 4th gear mod, which means I dont have to install my gear sets, which means I dont have to split the crank cases. I dont really want to go that deep if I dont have too.. My aim right now is to get the bike up and running again without spending too much money on it. I wont be removing/grinding the valves etc, and I will take it on faith for now that the bottom end of my replacement engine is ok.

You can see the corrosion on the valve guides and stems...Not great, so I will fit my old head on it, which I know is good to go..

(I had an exhaust cam fitted to my head around 99, I think they called it a "stage 3" cam at the time, I presume this is the one you are refering to..)

I will take the head off it tonight for a look see.

BTW I haven't done this kind of work for well over 12 years, so it is becoming a bit of fun project having spanners in my hands again... :)
 

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"(I had an exhaust cam fitted to my head around 99, I think they called it a "stage 3" cam at the time, I presume this is the one you are refering to..)" --roger.alli

Quite possibly. The work always goes better when you can put a positive spin to it...have fun.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So, here is a pic of my new (from the breakers) engine, and my 2 cylinder heads. The head in the foreground is my old head which I am going to reuse. I have cleaned it up as best I can, but as I don't have valve lifters that is about as good as I can do. I've cleaned all the crud off the mating surfaces and removed all the loose carbon deposits.

I've poured some solvent (kero) into the inlet/ehaust ports to see if there were any obvious leaks between the valve and seats. They all seem to be good.

The clyinder liners all appear to be good (to my eye at least). I dont want to remove the liners and measure everything, so again I will just hope for the best...

Now I can start the re-assembly process.:)

BTW, That piece of green cardboard with 3 holes in it, cost A$150.00!! Triumph sure know how to charge for parts...

Roger.
 

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Roger, One assembly item that's been debated is the resealing of the cylinder liners following head removal. It's a step in the service manual, but there seems to be some that haven't resealed them and hadn't any problems.

Assembly is good, completion even better. I just got my older Mustang buttoned up last night following a cage fight to the death restabbing the transmission. Best medicine for cuts and bruises is a happily burbling engine!

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Brad,

Yes, my Hanes manual goes into some detail about the need to ensure the liners are not disturbed once the head is off, in case the seal between the liners and crankcase broken. They suggest putting temporary clamps in place using the head bolt holes.

I was very careful handeling the block not to put any pressure on the liners, especially when rotating the crank.. It is after all only an RTV silocone seal.. Im pretty sure it will be fine..

To remove/reseal the liners is a pretty big deal (if you don't have a liner removal tool.) The crankcases need to be split, the crank lifted out of the way, and a tool fabricated to pull the liner from underneath. Not a 5 minute job...


Hanes say if you are careful not to disturb the liners you should be ok..

Head is on, and cams all lined up.. Note the cable ties to prevent the chain jumping a tooth... A tip I learned here.. works great.

Roger
 

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Roger, I have the Triumph manual. The Haynes manual, if like their other manuals I've used provide useful practical tips.

Very nice looking garage, BTW.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Engine re-installed, but not running correctly

Brad

It's not my garage at all but our work-shop at work. I work for a small air conditioning company. Both the owners are bike nuts so it is well set up for this kind of work.

After the best part of a whole days work, the engine is now back in the frame, all the plumbing connected and oil/coolant filled.

The moment of truth.. It started easily and settled into a good steady idle. :):):). No obvoius knocks or rattles or odd noises. Just that lumpy triple idle...

However.. It wont take any throttle at all... When I open the throttle it seems to be starved of fuel... :(.. It just starts to miss and won't produce any power...Close the throttle, and it settles into a perfect idle.

The engine fault light has come on as well, so something is amiss. No doubt I have made a connection, either electrical or plumbing, incorrectly.

Any information anyone can help with this problem would be gratefully recieved...


Roger
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorted !!

Assembly is good, completion even better. I just got my older Mustang buttoned up last night following a cage fight to the death restabbing the transmission. Best medicine for cuts and bruises is a happily burbling engine!

Brad
Got to agree with you now Brad.

Just spent my lunch time having a look at my fueling problem. Poked around a bit and discovered the throttle position sensor had become disconnected from its cable. It must have pulled free some time as I didn't remove the it during engine removal. Simple fix, and it runs beautifully now. Sounds tighter then my old engine, and no sign of oil smoke in the exhaust.. :)

Gives you a great feeling to have a nice healthy engine ticking away after a rebuild... all those parts working as they should..

Now to put it back to raod trim and mabe a ride for Easter.. ..



Roger
 

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Roger, Really great news! Hope you get it back on the road for Easter (looks like rain for me).

Brad
 

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Roger, Just thought of this...any problem with the shim size (engine to frame)? I haven't done an engine swap on one of these, but you might want to double check the chain line.

Brad
 

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Since you didn't break your engine cases...

Roger,

One more question related to Brad's installation question about shims - what procedure did you use when torquing the engine mount bolts? What pattern and what torque specs? When I followed the recommended procedure in my Triumph shop manual either I did it wrong or the torque wrench malfunctioned and I cracked my engine case by the left rear mount...VERY unhappy but want to verify how you put your engine back in? Thanks.

Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Engine install proceedure

Hi Matt and Brad,

Sorry to take so long to reply. Been away riding for Easter. :)

My Hanes manual is not with me just now but I will check it when I go home... In the mean time from memory, here is the procedure.

Firstly, when the engine was removed, the swing arm bolt and lower suspension attach bolt had to be loosened. The swing arm bolt needs a special tool, (a casltenated socket, but the Hanes manual describes how to make one from an old socket.) They do insist this be done, no doubt to let the frame relax a little. The eight mount bolts were then loosened, the motor supported, bolts removed, and then engine lowered away from the frame. There was only one spacer, it fitted on the rear, lower, left, mount. It was about 3 mm thick.

My new engine was installed by lifting it up into the frame with the company fork hoist. It was a pretty tight fit, and took a bit of lining up to get it all in the right orientation to lift up between the frame mounts.

My Hanes manual then says install all the bolts and tighten by hand, installing any spacers where they came from. I did this and put my one spacer back in. Hanes then says to tighten only THREE of the LEFT SIDE bolts only, to first torque stage of 80nm.
If you numbered the bolts front to back numbers 1 through 4, the ones to tighten would be bolt #1, then #3, then #4.

Bolt # 2 has the cast bracket between it and the engine, it is not tightened at this stage although the bracket is tightened to the engine.

Hanes manual then asks you to check the clearances of right hand side frame to engine gaps. If the gap is bigger the 1mm a shim is required (which can be brought from Triumph or fabricated) ..Mine were all less then this. A very neat fit really.

You then tighten (to first stage torque) the right hand bolts front to back, #1, then #3, then #4. Then tighten right hand bolt #2, then finally, left hand bolt # 2.

You then tighten all bolts in the same pattern, to the final torque of 95nm. And finally re tighten the lower suspension bolt, and the swing arm bolt.

What all this process does (I guess) is line the engine up on the left hand side of the frame which is the drive side. The frame should be relaxed, with no pressure on the swing arm bolt or suspension bolt. Then, with all gaps on the right side of the frame less then 1mm, there will be no undue pressure on the mount when tightened up.. Why the # 2bolt should be done last is beyond me..

Hanes manual does stress that this procedure be followed otherwise “sever damage may result”

My replacement engine, a 98 T595, finally cost me AUD $800.00 from the breakers, but I had to use my old head, which cost me another $200.00 in gaskets etc. It was a bit of a gamble, but so far so good.

If I was to do it all again, I might be tempted to put a 02 or later motor in, provided I could source one and all the bits needed to do it. I am now a relative expert on these 955engines, and know all about the variations. But at the time of the break down I wanted the easiest fix.

The Hanes manual covers all 955 variants from 97 to 05 which is a lot of stuff to sort through, but they do have some useful tips on how to do things without the genuine Triumph tool.

Hope you can get it sorted.

Roger
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Pics of it all back in one piece.

Ok,

All looking good again:).

This bike is a 97 T595, one of the very early ones. It had the frame swapped out on a recall. The original frames were plastic coated polished aluminium which looked great, but apparently this finishing system caused corrosion or some other problem?? Triumph paid for lotsof other work on it including, 4th gear, fuel pump, sprag clutch etc. Now that it has a new bottom end, not much is the original bike...

However, I've owned it from new, it has just 18000 km on it, it is all completly original trimph T595, and pretty much unmarked. Never been on its side. It is not quite showroom condition as I do use it but it is still a very pretty bike.

I was going to sell it after this little episode, but now I know it so well, inside and out, I will probably hold on to it for a few more years...
 

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Nice documentary of your process Roger - turned out really well!
The engine & head looked pretty nice in the pics actually and pleased that it bore up well when tested!
That pic of the bare frame less engine reminds me of an extremely similar one of my own! :p

I have to agree about the gasket costs - they are quite ludicrous - makes it quite cost-prohibitive to consider a full motor rebuild generally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks Decosse,

Your posts on this site were a great source of info on these engines, along with Brads help.

These triples are actually quite easy to work on. I was initially concerned about the Sagem ECM and all its sensors etc. But now that I know what everything does it is actually quite logical and straight forward to deal with.

It’s a pity that after market gaskets are not available, like most of the Jap machines, but if you are careful, most of the old ones can be reused.

Roger
 
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