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Discussion Starter #1
The speedometer on my T140E decided to stop working and i traced the problem to the speedo drive on the rear wheel apparently the inside is made of cheese!! Anyway I ordered and fitted a new one today and now the speedo is sort of working but it’s very erratic so does anyone know if it’s the gauge that’s buggered or should I be looking at the cable?
 

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You can check the speedo operation with an electric drill. Be sure to spin it counter(anti) clockwise.
 

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You will need to be careful about speedo cable routing to ensure the smoothest path, and the lightest 'load' on the speedo drive. I have always oiled the inner cable with engine oil (except for the last 6" or so at the speedo end).

The vague-lier speedo drive is a horrible thing. I have a collection of broken ones in the hope that someone may make repro drive plates so they can be repaired. The brass bush also has a habit of breaking out of the alloy body.

Strangely, I have noticed that the speedo itself seems to be quite accurate (when it is working..), compared with the indicated speed from a GPS. (My car's speedo over-reads a fair bit compared to GPS).

One thing I have found handy, for the frequent occasions when the speedo drive packs up, is that 3000revs in 3rd is ~30mph, 3000revs in 4th is ~40 mph and 3000revs in 5th is ~50mph and 4500revs in 5th is ~70mph. I have riden 1000s of miles like this....
 

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Dave, i bet you have a very low mileage bike. Just 3000 miles from new. I had a limited mileage lease car once and the milometer was often broken. Managed to keep the mileage down to the contract though. It was a wire and plug that kept falling out for a couple of months a year.
 

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Dave, i bet you have a very low mileage bike. Just 3000 miles from new. I had a limited mileage lease car once and the milometer was often broken. Managed to keep the mileage down to the contract though. It was a wire and plug that kept falling out for a couple of months a year.
Cars made in maybe the last 25 or so years store mileage driven and the engine running hours on the ECU. You are lucky the vehicle wasn't plugged into a diagnostic device.....
 

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Hi Sam750, The drives are not durable, replacement ones are worse, but frequent greasing is very helpful. The grease fitting is odd size. But using regular grease gun (like for swing arm), press tip tightly to drive & give a few strokes. It usually will pump grease into drive, even if lots leaks by fitting. 1 stoke every oil change at least, is not bad plan.

If you over grease, no problem. It will just work out between drive & hub past felt seal until it stabilizes itself. Simply wad up rag & spin wheel to wipe excess. In a few hundred miles it won't come out any more. Pretty much wheel bearing grease is fine. With moly or not.

However... often drive problems, that are not lack of lube are head and/or cable problems.

Remove cable from head. Stick small flat blade screw driver into square drive & spin it. Should turn very freely. If it feels stiff you can try 1-2 drops light oil on the spindle up inside. NO more. Spin it. If lube was problem (often is) then it will spin freely. If gears or bushing binding lube won't really help. I know your not supposed to lube speedo or tach, but I've lubed hundreds. Never yet had a problem. Just remember not much oil.

Then move to cable. With cable disconnected both ends, it should spin freely turning exposed end with fingers. Again if lube dries out will turn stiffly. Pull inner wire out. Wipe clean. No solvent or the like. There is speedo cable lube sold. But some grease like you used in drive unit & some motor oil or light weight oil at same time as grease will often turn free. Go easy on top end of cable so grease doesn't work up into speedo head. They say don't lube top 6" of inner wire. However, if your cable makes a bend at top near speedo, it will need some lube. Again go easy.

Finally if inner wire is too long it will bind & turn stiff. Also can bind speedo or drive bushings. Stick upper end of cable wire into speedo head far as it will go. Do this when you have wire pulled out to lube it. Measure how far from bottom of threaded stem. With cable attached to drive, push wire all the way to the rear. See where upper end of wire ends up. Do the math. You want at least 1/8" free play at end of inner wire.

Often the cable housing will wear rubber jacket through along lower frame area. This can allow water to enter housing & wash off grease & rust wire. If that happens you can attempt to clean & lube, tape up worn rubber, but often, best to replace cable.

As was stated, be mindful of cable routing to reduce any sharp or unneeded bends. Turn bars left/right to check for binding, pulling, twisting of cable that could put stress on it. When you remove rear wheel or adjust chain think about the cable/drive positioning on assembly. Different position of axle in swing arm might put cable in bind or stretch it as axle is adjusted. Is drive at best angle to give cable free run along swing arm? Lots to think about. All this works for tach also.

Let us know what you find & how it works out.
Don
 

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I wouldnt grease the inner cable. The speedo drive is quite fragile, I had one break shortly after greasing the inner, I took it that the grease was sufficiently 'heavy' to strain the drive, hence oiling the cable ever since.

...Dave, i bet you have a very low mileage bike. Just 3000 miles from new...
:) re. mileage, I rode my T140 round the clock over ~10 years then retired it before it was ruined. A fair weather bike now.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for your detailed reply Don not sure what you mean by greasing the drive unit as there is no grease nipple on the veglia drive unit although I did pack some grease in before fitting it I don’t think there is a problem with the cable length as it was working ok before and it’s nicely lubricated and free moving I also removed the cable from the drive unit at the back wheel and attached a battery drill and the speedo gauge seemed to work ok when held at a steady speed but when I connected it all back up a went for a test run the needle on the gauge was very erratic again so it might be the cable slipping inside the new speedo drive unit.
729381
 

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Smiths speedo drives had grease nipples, these were used on the T140V until ~1978, and mounted on the disc side of the wheel. Vaguely-er drives came in with the T140E ~1979, with the drive on the sprocket side.

keep the drive, you may need to cannibalise it for the drive plate at some point in the future. Is the brass bush loose in the alloy casting, I have seen them fall apart there in the past. Did I mention that they are horrible things?
 

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Hi
I think there may be some confusion about the grease, the Veglia did not have any provision to lubricate it,( unlike the earlier Smiths speedo drives) a little gear oil or chain lube squirted in the gap between the sides of the drive unit (the nice big gap that makes sure plenty of water/grit gets in) is as good as you will get on a Veglia drive.
I have had them before where the drive tab is not quite engaging on the wheel and slips. As the drive wears out (see water/grit wash gap) the one sided drive tab side can push the sides out of line and the tab lifts up. Luckily it is so flimsy that you can easily bend it back down again.

I have thought about adding a second tab, then machining the hub to suit, so that it provides an even pressure across the unit, maybe it would last longer, or maybe it would be trying to polish a turd.

Don’t expect too many miles out of it. I had a long commute over the winter and got through 3 Veglia drives in 7 months before my work contract was cut short.

After many years sticking to the original equipment, when the next Vegl goes down I will be fitting an electronic speedo and Tacho. -no more ugly drive cables either.

regards
Peg.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I’m really confused with this speedo if I take the cable out of the gauge at the handle bars end and spin the rear wheel I can see and feel the cable turning if i then refit cable in speedo gauge and remove it from the speedo drive at the rear wheel I can spin the cable round with my fingers and see the needle on the gauge moving so both ends are working but when I connect it all back up it either doesn’t work at all or is very erratic if it was someone else’s I would of said the cable is too short but it’s the same cable that was there before it stopped working!
Any ideas??
 

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If you pull back one of the threaded collars, the end of the outer cable should not have any gap to the housing. That would mean that when you tighten the collar, the inner cacle will be in compession. If it does, then either the inner has got stretched (by pulling it out?) or you have sh1t in the hole at either the drive or the speedo end.
Let us know,
Mick.
 

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The speedometer on my T140E decided to stop working and i traced the problem to the speedo drive on the rear wheel apparently the inside is made of cheese!! Anyway I ordered and fitted a new one today and now the speedo is sort of working but it’s very erratic so does anyone know if it’s the gauge that’s buggered or should I be looking at the cable?
Thanks for your detailed reply Don not sure what you mean by greasing the drive unit as there is no grease nipple on the veglia drive unit although I did pack some grease in before fitting it I don’t think there is a problem with the cable length as it was working ok before and it’s nicely lubricated and free moving I also removed the cable from the drive unit at the back wheel and attached a battery drill and the speedo gauge seemed to work ok when held at a steady speed but when I connected it all back up a went for a test run the needle on the gauge was very erratic again so it might be the cable slipping inside the new speedo drive unit. View attachment 729381
The speedometer on my T140E decided to stop working and i traced the problem to the speedo drive on the rear wheel apparently the inside is made of cheese!! Anyway I ordered and fitted a new one today and now the speedo is sort of working but it’s very erratic so does anyone know if it’s the gauge that’s buggered or should I be looking at the cable?
Hi, on my T140E I have gone through a number of Veglia drives. I'm sure that the French firm just made them to a price setting dictated by Triumph. Anyway, once you have lubed the cable with something modern (except for the 6 inches nearest the instrument head), you want to make sure that the square ends of the cable are located in their respective square drive housings before the union nut is tightened at the base of the instrument. Sometimes you just have to fiddle with it to make sure that it goes all the way into the Veglia drive. That's probably where the problem is. Good luck!
 

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Hi
Try holding the innner cable at the instrument end with your finger and thumb to provide a little resistance while the rear wheel is slowly tuned, if you can stop the cable tuning with little effort some thing is slipping.

Veglia Boreletti was a convergence of two old Italian watch making companies who were commissioned to make instruments in the first world war, theY merged in the 1930’s. They are responsible for the beautiful and iconic gauges seen on Lancia, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, 1950’s Mercedes, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, etc.
They have been part of Magneti Morelli group since 1987.

I can only think that they built instruments for Triumph down to a strict budget, the quality of the T140 drives do not reflect their rich history.

Regards
Peg
 

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Hi
Try holding the innner cable at the instrument end with your finger and thumb to provide a little resistance while the rear wheel is slowly tuned, if you can stop the cable tuning with little effort some thing is slipping.

Veglia Boreletti was a convergence of two old Italian watch making companies who were commissioned to make instruments in the first world war, theY merged in the 1930’s. They are responsible for the beautiful and iconic gauges seen on Lancia, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, 1950’s Mercedes, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, etc.
They have been part of Magneti Morelli group since 1987.

I can only think that they built instruments for Triumph down to a strict budget, the quality of the T140 drives do not reflect their rich history.

Regards
Peg
Funny, the speedo says made in France. Anyway, my drive is a knock off made in Taiwan.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi Rpw
The inner cable was slipping inside the old veglia unit when I held it with my finger and thumb but since fitting the new one I can feel resistance I did notice that one end of the inner cable has a longer squared part than the other I wonder if it matters what way round it goes?
 

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Hi Sam,

one end of the inner cable has a longer squared part than the other I wonder if it matters what way round it goes?
Pull on the inner first at one end and then the other. Pulling on one end will start the inner pulling out of the outer, when you should see a small brass ring crimped around the inner. That's what stopped the inner being pulled out of the outer the other way. If you fit the cable with that brass ring at the speedo. head, if the speedo. cable ever unscrews accidentally from the drive, the brass ring'll also stop the inner sliding out and being lost. (y) :)

When you fit the cable, attach it to the drive first. Then, when you attach the speedo. head, observe very closely that speedo. head slides on to the cable inner and right up to the outer without any resistance. Reason you check very carefully is cable makers sometimes screw up the inner vs. outer lengths and/or the square ends dimensions; if attaching the cable to the speedo. head applies any axial pressure to the speedo. internals, the brass bush tends to be buggered within a few miles. Amhikt ... 🤬

Hth.

Regards,
 

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My Ducati tach drive slipped on the cable . I realized that it was a bit too loose and used a bit of shim stock to tighten the clearance between cable and drive by bending it in an “L”
shape so it snugged up both sides at once. A little grease held it in place so I could slip the cable in.
 
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