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I'm assuming you're doing this in conjunction with the tape?
My though exactly, I certainly hope they are. The spokes are on the rim, not the tyre, so this blue stuff won't have any effect.
 

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Discussion Starter #102
I'm assuming you're doing this in conjunction with the tape?
Yes, I'm using the 2 mm thick by 50mm wide tape now after the first fail with the 1 mm stuff , and better quality valve stems than at first.
Wiser heads than mine on this thread came to the rescue with the correct specification.
Available from Blackwoods in a 16 metre roll and by far the cheapest way to buy it.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
My though exactly, I certainly hope they are. The spokes are on the rim, not the tyre, so this blue stuff won't have any effect.

I can assure you that it does. If only to prevent lifting of the edges and sealing pinhole leaks?
Please bear in mind the Bonneville rims are quite different to the Thruxton. :)
 

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I can assure you that it does. If only to prevent lifting of the edges and sealing pinhole leaks?
Please bear in mind the Bonneville rims are quite different to the Thruxton. :)
I am a bit confused! Surely this blue stuff works like other tyre sealants and gets centrifuged onto the inner tread surface of the tyre and therefore will not have any effect on leaks through the wheel, ie spokes and valve stem?

I am interested as I have recently developed a slow leak, about one pound per day, on the rear which I suspect may be from damage to the tape when refitting the tyre. (After 5 months the front has no significant pressure loss.)

I dont have equipment to remove the tyre and have no handy bike shop or tyre shop with motorcycle equipment so a DIY solution is appealing.
 

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The most common cause of leaks is the valves. The 90° ones are notorious for it, particularly on the curved surface of these wheels. For a guaranteed seal, use the rubber pull-through valves.
The tape will leak if you don't fit it properly. Don't leave any of the original blue spoke protector strip in (I tried that on @Fenech's bike, resulted in a slow leak), as the tape will force its way into the spoke holes and seal them anyway.
Most importantly, it's a two-man job to fit. You must pull the tape really hard while you fit it so that there are no wrinkles. If you get wrinkles, there will be paths for the air to slowly leak through.
I.e. not like this:



More like this:



:D
 

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I can assure you that it does. If only to prevent lifting of the edges and sealing pinhole leaks?
Please bear in mind the Bonneville rims are quite different to the Thruxton. :)
Yes, but the blue goo goes on the tyre, not the rim, as it's to seal small punctures in the tyre.
In what way do you think the Bonneville rims are so different to those of the Thruxton?
 

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Discussion Starter #107 (Edited)
Yes, but the blue goo goes on the tyre, not the rim, as it's to seal small punctures in the tyre.
In what way do you think the Bonneville rims are so different to those of the Thruxton?
I have always respected your input to this discussion, and in fact , you are one of the wiser heads that I referred to.

So you have stated that a solution that actually worked could not possibly do so. And you determined this how?
Show us the method please?

As to the Thruxton rims , It appears to me the spoke valley is shallower and somewhat wider than the steel T-120 rims, but I have only seen them in images posted here and may well be wrong.
Steeper angles require the the tape to conform to a more convoluted surface, but again I could be wrong.

Another flawed assumption is that centrifugal force is required to distribute a substance inside a closed area. In fact there are many mechanisms that can induce this effect ;- capillary action, plain old-fashioned dripping , disturbance on rough road surfaces , just to name a few that come to mind easily.
Anyone that has traveled with children and ice-cream in a new car could probably attest to this fact.

And further to this , the wheels are not always in motion , so it does not require a huge leap of the imagination to see how transferral can take place between an outside surface ;- tyre , and an inner one ;- rim.

A clue - Newton , apple

In regard to the second installation of tape, I followed your excellent advice and purchased the correct grade and performed rigorous degreasing with several different solvents before proceeding , and if anyone cares enough to troll back through the thread, achieved a fairly competent seal around all edges , and without wrinkling or voids. The images are there somewhere.

None of this stopped the eventual lifting of edges in some places and after initial success several very slow leaks appeared around the nipples and this was confirmed by the soap test. Also, by this time the valve stems had been replaced with superior ones of the correct size - again on your recommendation.

Having been through this process several time by now , I was able to observe the tape after several thousand k’s and more tyre removals and reinstalls than I want to do in my limited spare time. It had lifted at the edges , but this has been already been proven impossible due to equal pressure exerting itself on all surfaces , as we were all informed in a previous post by someone else.

Now I’m just trying to establish a decent method of getting this done and have made many mistakes on the way.
But I respectfully suggest you do re-examine your your logic again before you call BS on something that has worked spectacularly well for me.

The rest of you, take it or leave it! These are only my real-world observations.
 

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I don’t have a dog in this hunt (I went tubeless by buying new wheels) but can see @Baster has a point regarding the sealant dripping all over the inside surfaces when it’s first applied. And, surely, the air pressure will ‘hold’ the sealant against all the surfaces it’s coated once the tyre has been inflated? Or is that just too simple? :smile2:

I’m intrigued by the whole process and keen to learn as another bike I rather fancy also comes with tubes and spokes.. :frown2:
 

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Putting anything water based in the tyre after the tape seal is a no no. it may eventually undo the glue. Also steel to tape and alloy to tape will have different adhesion qualities. Lastly a wheel chock will aid in doing the job solo.
 

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The most common cause of leaks is the valves. The 90° ones are notorious for it, particularly on the curved surface of these wheels. For a guaranteed seal, use the rubber pull-through valves.
The tape will leak if you don't fit it properly. Don't leave any of the original blue spoke protector strip in (I tried that on @Fenech's bike, resulted in a slow leak), as the tape will force its way into the spoke holes and seal them anyway.
Most importantly, it's a two-man job to fit. You must pull the tape really hard while you fit it so that there are no wrinkles. If you get wrinkles, there will be paths for the air to slowly leak through.
I.e. not like this:
:D
Thanks Jason. I did not use angled valve stems...the ones I got from Aliexpress were rubbish so opted for straight ones with the nuts on the outside of the rim in anticipation of problems! After one practice run which turned to custard I had no trouble applying tape single handed. I improvised a jig using my Workmate and the rear axle.

I did the conversion the week before Christmas and had no significant pressure loss until I did my pre-ride check on Anzac Day when I found the rear down about 7 pounds. I had not ridden for about a week so roughly a pound a day loss which has continued unchanged till the present.

I tried giving the valve stem an extra tweak but that had no effect - bit worried about overdoing it and shearing the bloody thing off!
 

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So you have stated that a solution that actually worked could not possibly do so. And you determined this how?
Show us the method please?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being critical, I'm just asking why you think some of this stuff might work.

As to the Thruxton rims , It appears to me the spoke valley is shallower and somewhat wider than the steel T-120 rims, but I have only seen them in images posted here and may well be wrong.
Steeper angles require the the tape to conform to a more convoluted surface, but again I could be wrong.
Yes, the fronts in particular do seem to have a much deeper well. Rather than being a disadvantage, I think this is an advantage from a tape sealing point of view, as it keeps the tape further away from the tyre rim during fitting. It just means very hard pulling to make sure the tape goes all the way to the bottom of the well. As long as 100% of the tape adheres, it only has to stay stuck, not seal. The seal on these conversions is only around the indents where the spoke nipples are, and the rest of the tape is just a band to stop those sections coming unstuck under heavy G-force :)

Another flawed assumption is that centrifugal force is required to distribute a substance inside a closed area. In fact there are many mechanisms that can induce this effect ;- capillary action, plain old-fashioned dripping , disturbance on rough road surfaces , just to name a few that come to mind easily.
Anyone that has traveled with children and ice-cream in a new car could probably attest to this fact.
Oh yes, capillary action of liquids into the tiny air-holes in car seats is... well let's just say effective.

The thing with the sealing stuff is that it does sort of go everywhere, but very thinly. As a guide, a tiny wheel weight on the inner rim of a 17" wheel at 150kph acquires 1000G of force (do the maths, it's amazing but true), so a tiny 10g weight imparts a centrifugal pressure of 10Kg on the rim. It's amazing how extreme those forces are, so most of those goo products are converted into something that weighs more than liquid lead, so they really do end up almost exclusively on the tyre :) When we get a tyre someone has used puncture-repair stuff in, it's generally all on the tyre and nothing on the rim.
Having said that, it does no harm. I just wouldn't put any faith in using the system to work on the spokes, only on the tyre.

Given the choice of 3M tape or the Outex kit, the Outex is going to be better, as they use a slightly different tape that is less globby (?) so is less prone to flowing and lifting. I've also see the edges getting a bit loose on 3M tape, I use the 3M because I want different valves, and the early Outex used to seal the valve into their tape (not sure if they still do).
It seems that if you pull the tape very tight to fit, it will survive the huge G-forces and last well.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
Putting anything water based in the tyre after the tape seal is a no no. it may eventually undo the glue. Also steel to tape and alloy to tape will have different adhesion qualities. Lastly a wheel chock will aid in doing the job solo.
If the tape seal is already compromised and not doing it’s job after several attempts and the remedy has already exceeded the longevity of the original installations and maintained a perfect seal for many months and kilometres?

For me this is an enhancement. I’m getting pretty adept at taking tyres on and off rims , having had to do so many times since starting this thread.
Haven’t had to do it since using TruBlueGoo.

I can only report on my personal experience, and since I’m well ahead of most in this process on this particular thread , I’m likely to encounter issues first and be able to provide an early warning should anything catastrophic happen.
I don’t expect I’ll have to do that anytime soon.

Could really never get rid of the tiny but persistent leaks previously and now they’re gone .

Patching an inner tube is a hassle at the best of times - on the side of the road it’s a nightmare.
But that’s just one mans opinion 🙂
 

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Discussion Starter #113 (Edited)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being critical, I'm just asking why you think some of this stuff might work.



Yes, the fronts in particular do seem to have a much deeper well. Rather than being a disadvantage, I think this is an advantage from a tape sealing point of view, as it keeps the tape further away from the tyre rim during fitting. It just means very hard pulling to make sure the tape goes all the way to the bottom of the well. As long as 100% of the tape adheres, it only has to stay stuck, not seal. The seal on these conversions is only around the indents where the spoke nipples are, and the rest of the tape is just a band to stop those sections coming unstuck under heavy G-force :)



Oh yes, capillary action of liquids into the tiny air-holes in car seats is... well let's just say effective.

The thing with the sealing stuff is that it does sort of go everywhere, but very thinly. As a guide, a tiny wheel weight on the inner rim of a 17" wheel at 150kph acquires 1000G of force (do the maths, it's amazing but true), so a tiny 10g weight imparts a centrifugal pressure of 10Kg on the rim. It's amazing how extreme those forces are, so most of those goo products are converted into something that weighs more than liquid lead, so they really do end up almost exclusively on the tyre :) When we get a tyre someone has used puncture-repair stuff in, it's generally all on the tyre and nothing on the rim.
Having said that, it does no harm. I just wouldn't put any faith in using the system to work on the spokes, only on the tyre.

Given the choice of 3M tape or the Outex kit, the Outex is going to be better, as they use a slightly different tape that is less globby (?) so is less prone to flowing and lifting. I've also see the edges getting a bit loose on 3M tape, I use the 3M because I want different valves, and the early Outex used to seal the valve into their tape (not sure if they still do).
It seems that if you pull the tape very tight to fit, it will survive the huge G-forces and last well.
Very valid points about the capillary action and the depths of the valleys in the rims .

I did find that even with the wider tape , that the angle between the two surfaces can tend to encourage the tape to lift. It was well stretched and rolled in to place and appeared to be perfect. But even before adding the blue stuff it was lifting slightly and I’m not convinced now that the 3M has quite enough grab.

( Edit) - The lifting was noticed after removing the rear tyre to try and determine what was going on , and the tape replaced - again - before refitting. This prior to the TrueBlue.

The goo is a reactive product and seems to catalyse when it reaches pin leaks.
Removing the valve confirms it remains in its liquid form and my belief is that it gets carried to the leak by air movement . There’s certainly enough agitation in a tyre to splash it everywhere and it’s possible that it does it’s best work at rest.
It did take a day or so to work , but it most assuredly has.

I have a reasonable understanding of moment, and centrifugal force and it’s effects. They used to let me fly planes about the place.

I would be very interested in hearing about the other system and in hindsight should probably have just paid the money and got a reliable product. And used the high-quality straight stems I already have. In time and effort it would have been cheaper.

But what I have going now seems to work fine. The blue stuff remains for now.
:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Just noticed the pic you re-posted of my first installation- should go in the ‘how not to’ section . Narrow , thin tape and all 😁. Can’t remember If I posted pics of tape version 1.3 but I got pretty good tension and it all looked very uniform .

1.3 with the wider, thicker tape bears more resemblance to your posted images and were sans wrinkles.

Also , next time I change out tyres it’ll be with straight valve stems. Or look at the alternative system.
 

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Great information guys, have any of you had any issues since the conversion, does any one know if a 2010 T100 rims would be suitable for this conversion?
dunno if anyone else answered but yes: I've just done my 2010 T100 front rim today and rear yesterday and they've got the safety ridges in both rims. I used Loctite 290 and 3M 4412 tape. Rear seems ok, front not pumped up yet.
 

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Has anyone used the liquid electrical tape that was mentioned somewhere in this thread to seal the spokes? Just curious. I have one of the Outex kits that I'll be putting on at the next tire change, and thought sealing the spokes with the liquid stuff before I wrapped the rims with the kit tape would be a good idea.
 

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I took the plunge this week. I have been waiting for the tyres to wear out so that I could take the opportunity to have a proper go at it.

I saw the Black & Decker stand picture and realised that I could do the same with my bicycle stand, it worked perfectly. I cleaned the wheels inside and out multiple times starting with soap & water and progressing through degreaser to the alcohol recommended elsewhere on this forum. Then I used Loctite inside and out before applying the tape. It all seemed ok and I left it overnight to dry out before taking the wheels to the tyre shop for tyre fitting. The wheels seemed to be leak free having had the tyres fitted. The tyre man suggested that I pump them up today and measure them with my gauge and then check again in the morning. At 6:15 this morning I checked and the front was perfect, not a drop at all but the rear was completely flat. Damn.

As it was so early I decided I should not go making a noise and that possibly a cup of coffee and a moment of reflection was in order before I start to panic. This is my train of thought so far: Both tyres pumped up and tested for leaks with a water spray, none found. 12 hours later one is perfect and one so flat that I can press the tyre in by hand. Could I be so lucky to have a valve that is not working properly?

After today I won't get a chance to visit the tyre shop until next Saturday as I'm back at work this week. I can live without the bike this week as it is still summer in London and I can cycle to work but I can't live without it much longer than that. I had already ordered some of the blue goo, well an English equivalent and that arrives on Wednesday so my plan is this: Check the valve and re-inflate the tyre today. Fit blue goo on Wednesday and re-inflate. If it is still flat on Saturday then I take it back to the shop and fit the inner tube and sulk, a lot.
 

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I used a good old fashioned method of getting the tyre off the bead (got a shovel and jumped on it) and discovered that there was a sticker on the tyre right where the leak was. It was a plasticised sticker and it seemed highly likely to be interfering with the sealing process so I removed it. I also added some of the bead sealer I had bought previously to fix a leak on my wife's Vespa scooter (YouTube self help videos are a life saver).

I then repeated the pump up and leave overnight test and am very pleased to report that there was no drop in pressure. Very pleased.

On Wednesday the blue goo stuff arrives and I will install that then put the wheels back on the bike before using it next weekend. I will definitely take it easy and stay local for a while. I am hoping to do the DGR ride at the end of the month in Southend on Sea which will be a 100 mile plus trip and I'll report back after that.
 

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I have done 150 miles since the goo was inserted into my tyres on a variety of roads including motorway, commuting in London and fast country roads over the last 10 days and not had any noticeable loss in pressure. I'll check regularly and if it changes I'll post again.
 
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