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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now there is an alternative for those missing an affordable 1000cc, away from the jap mob. BMW got where Triumph placed itself away, insisting in offering only the 675 toy. Considering how competitive the 600s market is, in a few years they will be out of this segment as well.
I have just put my 01 D9551 for sale.



 

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^haha Im not liking the new breed of sport bike. Everything is starting to look like it came from another planet. I dont think anything will be able to match the sound and feel of our triples. So as for a replacement i say nay. Supplement......maybe:cool:
 

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Affordable??!! :D I don't know where you're posting from, but in the UK the S1000RR will be over 12k UK Pounds - there's nothing affordable about it!

That new BMW has been engineered to be as Japanese as possible - in that sense it's no alternative to the existing R1-GSXR-Fireblade-ZX10 offerings, it just happens to be made by a European company. Having said that I'd have one like a shot.

What about KTM? Their RC8 is surely a European alternative, making no attempt to imitate the Japanese bikes. Or the Aprilia RSV, or the Ducati 1098/1198, the MV Agusta, the Benelli, the Morini...
 

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Funny how other "small" companies find the litre+ market worth getting into. Ducati was saved by the 1098 (guess Triumph doesn't need saving). Aprilia took forever to put out their V4 but did it (although it is too expensive), BMW is making inroads into the market and racing. All the while, the Japanese have raised the bar so far since the last Daytona 955 was made that it would take Triumph too much to compete now. So now the usual remarks of Triumphbuilds road bikes will be tossed in. True. They build very good road bikes. But it is just a shame there is not a big bore race rep thingy in the Triumph line.
Yeah, I agree that the looks are an aquired taste, but you can't argue with the way these litre bikes perform.
 

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Funny how other "small" companies find the litre+ market worth getting into. Ducati was saved by the 1098 (guess Triumph doesn't need saving). Aprilia took forever to put out their V4 but did it (although it is too expensive), BMW is making inroads into the market and racing. All the while, the Japanese have raised the bar so far since the last Daytona 955 was made that it would take Triumph too much to compete now. So now the usual remarks of Triumphbuilds road bikes will be tossed in. True. They build very good road bikes. But it is just a shame there is not a big bore race rep thingy in the Triumph line.
Yeah, I agree that the looks are an aquired taste, but you can't argue with the way these litre bikes perform.
Hmmm..interesting since Ducati has been building 900cc+ bikes for decades. So essentially they have been in the liter bike market for a long time. Ducati was saved by the sale to Texas Pacific group not sales. The 1098 saved poor Ducati sales because Pierre Terblanche made a huge mistake when designing the 999. They had one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever and replaced it with a ugly funky looking bike that did not sell well. Aprilia had the RSV1000 before the RSV4. It did extremely well in WSBK and they made a mistake by booting Troy Corser. Had they dealt with his tire problems and kept him and the WSBK project going they would have had a WSBK title. These companies have been in the liter market for a long time. WSBK leads to direct sales of motorcycles. MotoGP does not. Hence liter bikes. Give it time and im sure Triumph will surprise us.
 

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Hmmm..interesting since Ducati has been building 900cc+ bikes for decades. So essentially they have been in the liter bike market for a long time. Ducati was saved by the sale to Texas Pacific group not sales. The 1098 saved poor Ducati sales because Pierre Terblanche made a huge mistake when designing the 999. They had one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever and replaced it with a ugly funky looking bike that did not sell well. Aprilia had the RSV1000 before the RSV4. It did extremely well in WSBK and they made a mistake by booting Troy Corser. Had they dealt with his tire problems and kept him and the WSBK project going they would have had a WSBK title. These companies have been in the liter market for a long time. WSBK leads to direct sales of motorcycles. MotoGP does not. Hence liter bikes. Give it time and im sure Triumph will surprise us.
That was in response to this . OOOPS :eek:
 

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I'm not sure that they will. The litre sportsbike market makes a big noise but it's quite small in terms of sales versus other classes, and extremely expensive in development terms. I've just read Performance Bike magazine July, one headline reads; "Is the Fireblade finished?" This is the '08 'blade, raved about for a year and now considered to be trailing the pack. To stay at the top of the game in litre sportsbikes you have to bring out an innovative new model every two years: the cost of doing this is phenomenal in itself, but when you also consider that every new model means that unsold stocks of the previous one have to be sold at break-even or a loss, it's even worse. The Japanese do it because they're on a treadmill now, and can't stop: at least, none of them want to be the first to stop. They probably still believe that having a flagship litre sportsbike helps sell the rest of their range, and they may be right up to a point.

If I was a manufacturer, I'd be looking to lead the market in classes where model life is long enough to recover development costs and turn a profit - that means big all-rounders like the BMW R1200GS and the 1050 Tiger, sports tourers like the 1050 Sprint and the K1200GS and so on.

It's no coincidence that Triumph and BMW build ranges out of relatively few engines - again, development cost. Will Yamaha port the new R1's crossplane crank engine to other models? Maybe we'll see an FZ-1 Fazer with a detuned version next year - if so, it's that bike that will recover the engine development investment, not the R1.

Triumph seems to me to be concentrating their efforts on volume classes where model life is fairly long, without trying to compete head on with the Japanese in a class that eats investment and produces little profit. They have the 675 Daytona which flies the flag of sporting credibility for the brand (and importantly, gives them a great engine to build a mid-size range just like BMW is doing with the F800; mid-size bikes sell way more units than litre...) - they don't need a litre sportsbike as well. Sure, they could make one using the 1050 lump, but what would they gain? They'd be back on the treadmill, and even if their product was applauded at launch it would be a has-been two years later - they had years of criticism in the press for the 955 Daytona's 'old-fashioned' spec, they can't be in a hurry to experience that again.

In short, it would be dumb for Triumph to launch a litre sportsbike, and they haven't been making many dumb moves lately. BMW can afford to throw money away in pursuit of sporting credibility, Triumph can't and shouldn't.
 

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The litre class sportbike is perhaps the negative profit leader for any motorcycle company as class sales have been falling for a few years now. It is, however often seen as the heart and soul of a motorcycle manufacturer by the enthusiast...even H-D has Buell.

I've said in the past that the Daytona line up introduces new Triumph designs to be shared at some point with the other line ups. Personally I'd be tickled pink if a 800 cc version of the D675 was introduced with 160 ish HP. Still that's not quite a litre class sportbike.

I was surprised when the D650 was replaced by the D675 after just one year. The D650, and the D600 were good bikes that needed a good suspension, at least for marketing. The D675 didn't miss a beat anywhere...center mass engine design, very good suspension, proper sport tires, light weight, et cetera. When a litre class Triumph sportbike is introduced I'd expect no less.

Would it replace my D955i...no, but the '98 could find itself on the blocks!

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
1000cc class bikes

I cannot agree that keeping 1000cc bikes technologically updated is a huge investment. Certainly not so for the japs that keep incrementally improving components and esthetics while maintaning product value. Except for the now famous X-plane crankshafted R1 ( MV Augusta 500cc of the 80s) it is true for everybody else...
Triumph spitted in the face of 955 customers by stopping production of the 955i in 2006 while it could easily have improved the brakes, suspension and rev'd up a 1050 engine to at least 160 BHP. Residual values of 955's now are quite ridiculous. I have managed to sell my 01 for 50% of the value of a new 675 toy.
The BMW S1000RR is somewhat cheaper than the Ducati 1098 or the new Aprilla, although I recognize any of them is as affordable as a jap bike.
Triumph Hinckey does not care much about serious sports bikes: dropped the D1200 replacement (1300 Hurricane) after it was almost ready for production and them the 955i;
The 650 and 600's were dropped in favour of a much better 675, but imagine the finantial loss of those who bought a 650...
I am really angry about Triumph product policies regarding sport bikes and I am buying a BMW K1300S to remember the 95 D1200 I had before the 01 955i;
 

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Thanks for the pic Luiz. I really like it and the whole 'shark' thing they have going on. It would look great in the garage beside the 955.
 

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Awesome powerfull as well, at 193 shp and 112 Nm torque at 9750 rpm. Nothing to do with jap 4s and with mid/ low range torque to be close to the 955i.
Very good information sheet from BMW at:

http://www.bmwsuperbikes.com/BMWSuperBikes_s1000rr.pdf
Its definitely more interesting than the japanese 4's. All though the new R1 sounds like a V-twin with its firing order. Still doesnt have the soul and character of a triple.
 

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Triumph makes a dandy Litre bike. They just leave the fairings off.
 

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Triumph makes a dandy Litre bike. They just leave the fairings off.
This is one point. They actually have fairings for it actually, and the little sister is still called Sprint ST. Why not take a few kilograms out and work the engine for 160-170 BHP? Sure the pistons will be different, they will call it a new engine but shouldn´t be a big deal. If they want, they can make a new engine - inline 3, v-3, whatever. Hopefully they will scratch their heads with this design now that they´ve collecting the dividends from the Thunderbird´s new 1600 engine. It looks like Triumph spent four years developing this engine - therefore I think that, if they do care about developing a new litre-class engine, they should thell that to the customers at some point along the way.
 
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