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You can Google the gasoline of any of the fuel companies like Esso and they state on their websites that premium fuel (91 octane or greater) contain more cleaners than regular fuel and this is more appropriate for high-performance engines. Even though the 675 (with a 12.7:1 compression ratio) will run fine on 87 octane when new, IMO the premium fuel is better to use when the mileage gets higher and combustion chamber deposits build up. Holy crap, an extra buck won't even buy you a cup of coffee these days!
I'm not searching for anything. I'm not the one who made that statement and don't have to back it.

It's not the extra money, it's the misconception that premium fuels are somehow superior in these engines. You did not address how your magic additives somehow counteract the effect of the higher octane, and cause the charge to fully combust as it should, instead of the later, incomplete combustion that results when using higher octane fuel in an engine not designed for it.

Here's several articles to back my stance:

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/to-save-money-on-gas-stop-buying-premium.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/premium-gas-luxury-vehicles.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/automobiles/dont-waste-money-on-premium-gas-if-your-car-is-made-for-regular.html

The Edmunds article also contains this paragraph:

Drivers used to buy a tank of premium every once in a while to clean their engines. Years ago, premium gasoline contained more detergents and other additives to stop carbon deposits. But experts say that now, because of government regulations aimed at cutting emissions, most major brands of gasoline have plenty of additives in all grades to both protect engines and cut pollution.
 

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Particularly for California, all gas is the same except for additives at the station or as it's loaded into the truck from the same refinery.
 

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You'll get no benefit from running higher octane unless your motor has a knock sensor, so the computer knows when you have higher octane fuel and can advance the timing. My 2014 ST3 doesn't have one and I'm guessing the 765 is the same. I run 87 at the track, and it runs great.

My ST3 did seem to run better on pure gas (my manual recommends pure gas vs 10% ethanol but either is fine), but it wasn't worth going out of my way to get some.
Mostly correct, but you'll need to have a knock sensor AND have your ecu programmed for that higher octane in order to get a performance increase with better octane gas. When the manual states 87 octane, you'll not get any improvements from running 93, knock sensor or not unless you got the ecu flashed to take advantage of the higher knock resistance of a higher octane gas. IE, running 93 in a vehicle which asks for 87 or 91 even with a knock sensor nets you nothing stock, because the ecu doesn't automatically adjust the fuel map to take advantage of anything more than what it was programmed for from the factory.
 

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On the flip side, my 2012 GTI, with it's turbocharged I4 came with about 200hp/200ft-lbs and required 91. I had the ecu flashed, and now it requires 93, but the upside of that is about 250hp/290ft-lbs.
 

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On the flip side, my 2012 GTI, with it's turbocharged I4 came with about 200hp/200ft-lbs and required 91. I had the ecu flashed, and now it requires 93, but the upside of that is about 250hp/290ft-lbs.
Are they still on a K03 turbo? Get yourself a nice K04, re-tune, and feel the powah! (it worked on my B5 S4...)

(and to stay on-topic: ECU does need to be remapped to take advantage of higher octane)
 

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I run 87 octane with whatever percentage ethanol happens to be in it, and it runs perfectly. No knocking.

My Harleys, however, sound like pebbles in a tin can on anything less than 92 when I'm hard on the throttle.

Actually, now that I have almost 7000 miles on the Striple, on the now rare occasions when I pull out a Harley they sound and feel like they're falling apart anyway.
They are.
 

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What on earth are you talking about?
I mentioned my VW GTI as an example where higher octane fuel is most definitely required, just as a counterpoint to the discussion. Steaktastic followed me on my little tangent.

All done...normal service has been restored...
 

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Mostly correct, but you'll need to have a knock sensor AND have your ecu programmed for that higher octane in order to get a performance increase with better octane gas. When the manual states 87 octane, you'll not get any improvements from running 93, knock sensor or not unless you got the ecu flashed to take advantage of the higher knock resistance of a higher octane gas. IE, running 93 in a vehicle which asks for 87 or 91 even with a knock sensor nets you nothing stock, because the ecu doesn't automatically adjust the fuel map to take advantage of anything more than what it was programmed for from the factory.
Any vehicle that has a knock sensor will also have the programming. That's the whole point of the knock sensor. I wasn't trying to list everything an engine needs.
 

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Not being too cheap to spend the extra buck for premium, I'll keep using premium fuel in my high-performance Street Triple engine (with 50,000 kms) for 3 reasons; higher octane, more cleaners than regular, and (where I live) there is NO ethanol in the premium fuel. It's a no-brainer.
 

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You keep on doing whatever you want to do and rationalize it anyway you want, but higher octane - octane being a combustion inhibitor - is no reason to pay more for fuel. You still haven't explained how the magic additives you referred to in your earlier post somehow counteract the additional octane and ensure the charge combusts when it should and how it should. And, you still haven't provided any creditable evidence that your brand of fuel puts up to five times the additives as they do in their regular.

Instead of responding to my direct inquiries, you reply with the somewhat insulting implication that anyone who doesn't use premium fuel in their bike is cheap. Strong argument there, bub.
 

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I knew I could count on this group to have covered this already! Thanks everybody!
I always put Premium (~91 octane) in my (now sold) 2001 Sprint ST, as per the owner's manual. And out of habit, I put Premium in the Striple for the first few tanks. When I got around to reading the manual carefully, I was surprised to see 87 listed as minimum. I've been putting Plus (~89) in for the last few tanks and listening for knocks, and reminding myself to check here for the group's wisdom. The engine has been running fine. After this thread, I'll switch to Regular (~87) for at least 1 or 2 tanks, and listen again for knocks.
I'm surprised the higher compression Striple can take lower grade gas than the Sprint, but I suppose it's a more sophisticated engine management system.

As for detergents and other additives, I did a bit of Googling. I couldn't find anything on Chevron or Shell's website detailing exactly what they put in their fuels (other than "Techron" for Chevron and Nitrogen for Shell). I also found this interesting Wikipedia page (so take with a big grain of salt) that says "Top Tier" detergent standards must apply to all grades of gas the retailer sells.
Based on my experience cleaning carbs on old bikes, and doing fuel filters and other fuel system maintenance on the Sprint, I think if the bike is ridden regularly (so the gas doesn't stale and leave deposits), and I'm putting standard US retail pump gas in your bike (nothing from a rusty jerry can in a developing country), and the engine doesn't knock, I'm happy putting the lowest recommended octane in the tank.

BTW, I had a 2002 Volvo V70 T5 that also "recommended" premium gas, but said lower grades could be used. It would run on mid grade ok, but I noticed occasional knocking on 87. With the high pressure turbo, the engine management system couldn't cope with lower octane.

Thanks again for all the great info!
 

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Not to add high octane fuel to the discussion but...:
I have two Street Triples 2008 675 with 55K and 2018 765 R with 4K
The older one runs great on every type of gas i put in, but it seems it likes 87 and 89 better.
The new one 765 R has specific recommendation for at least 91 octane.
I like to put ethanol-free gas but it comes in either 87 or 90 octane. I wonder if 1 or two octanes could cause any issue, mostly for warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
The new one 765 R has specific recommendation for at least 91 octane.
Where's this recommendation from?

I'm not near my bike/manual, but the PDF version I have access to is the Euro version and it states; "Your Triumph engine is designed to use unleaded fuel and will give optimum performance if the correct grade of fuel is used. Always use unleaded fuel with a minimum octane rating of 91 RON."

Internet says that's ~87 octane in the US:
US (R+M)/2 | EURO RON
87 | 91.1
 

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Where's this recommendation from?

I'm not near my bike/manual, but the PDF version I have access to is the Euro version and it states; "Your Triumph engine is designed to use unleaded fuel and will give optimum performance if the correct grade of fuel is used. Always use unleaded fuel with a minimum octane rating of 91 RON."

Internet says that's ~87 octane in the US:
US (R+M)/2 | EURO RON
87 | 91.1
This is correct. Euro standards for rating fuel is "RON". US standard is the average being RON and MON which in turn equals AKI (anti-knock index). MON is a higher testing standard and in so when averaged with RON bring the index number downwards.

91 RON in Europe = 87 RON + MON average in US. Same quality gas. It appears Triumph is suggesting 87 for US customers, 91 for Euro folks. Same gas either way
 

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But r00t is in Atlanta. The manual for the RS says, "These Triumph motorcycles are designed to run on unleaded gasoline with a CLC or AKI octane rating (R+M)/2 of 87 or higher." -Page 94 r00t, are you reading from a non-US manual? If you're in Atlanta and you can get ethanol free 87, I'd definitely go that route.
 

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You'll get no benefit from running higher octane unless your motor has a knock sensor, so the computer knows when you have higher octane fuel and can advance the timing. My 2014 ST3 doesn't have one and I'm guessing the 765 is the same. I run 87 at the track, and it runs great.

My ST3 did seem to run better on pure gas (my manual recommends pure gas vs 10% ethanol but either is fine), but it wasn't worth going out of my way to get some.
This is exactly my understanding, and I'm losing my mind trying to find out if the 2017 1200s have any sort of knock sensor. It's certainly a shame if they don't seeing how much electronics the bike has. Hell, Buick was using knock sensors in the mid 80s!
 

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But r00t is in Atlanta. The manual for the RS says, "These Triumph motorcycles are designed to run on unleaded gasoline with a CLC or AKI octane rating (R+M)/2 of 87 or higher." -Page 94 r00t, are you reading from a non-US manual? If you're in Atlanta and you can get ethanol free 87, I'd definitely go that route.
Yes...in the States 87 octane non-ethanol fuel would be the best of all solutions considering cost-vs-performance variants and assuming it was top grade gasoline. My understanding is 87 non-ethanol would not be any less prone to knocking but would provide for less chance of any cumulative water damage especially over long periods of non use. I would however make the argument that most contemporary engines are MUCH less prone to long term corrosion from ethanol and if in fact one was genuinely worried about water/corrosives there are a bunch of great products (by way of additives) that are really effective in combating that scenario.
 

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But r00t is in Atlanta. The manual for the RS says, "These Triumph motorcycles are designed to run on unleaded gasoline with a CLC or AKI octane rating (R+M)/2 of 87 or higher." -Page 94 r00t, are you reading from a non-US manual? If you're in Atlanta and you can get ethanol free 87, I'd definitely go that route.
I believe the online owners manual only shows the European version, even if you choose the US as the country. But my printed US Manual also says 87 or better. So I use 87.
 

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+1. As Beatle said, p 94 of the US manual says use (R+M)/2 >= 87. The back of the book specs say the same thing: 87 unleaded for all the different variants (S, R-LRH, S 660, R and RS).
 
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