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hi Jim,
i had a reasonable bike, but unfortunately managed to buy an unused Drouin Supercharger, which I duly bolted on without making any of the sensible other modifications (reduce CR, reduce valve overlap, convert to SU Carb), I ended up with a bike that went like a rocket, with flames shooting out of the exhaust and it trying to murder me every time It gets ridden, Exciting!! but not a sensible plan to a long life.

The main difference between the M2 and Mk2a was the large airbox and silencers on the ‘a’, it was an attempt to quieten the bike for Europe. Confusingly Norton produced different marks oF the Commando Consecutively.

Anyway, Enough of the ‘N’ word on this forum.
Except it is a shame that Stuart Garner’s new Norton company has gone into administration.

Regards
Peg
 

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Hi Jim,
You should have black barrels and an RH10 cylinder head on the Mk2
Be careful what you wish for, I am not joking about it trying to murder me every time I take her out. I think there are a couple of photos in my bike folder.
I am not on access Norton, but I think we might be kicked there if we carry on talking about Nortons.
Regards
Peg.
 

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Sparx makes a very nice 3-phase alternator and reg/rect. SOME early Sparx 3-phase units have experienced failures, but new ones as of 2 years ago are fine. Any JRC reseller, and many others, sell Sparx products which I have had excellent success with (and GREAT backup from JRC)
 

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Hi Peg, Jim,

In a previous post, Stuart posted that he has found a supply of Honda replacement RR units, that have proven reliable in use. These are about 1/10 the cost of the Shindegen RR.
Podtronics RR’s are known to be tough as old boots also.
I do wonder sometimes, that I might be just throwing money away on these expensive Shindegen RR’s.
I wouldn't dream of suggesting how you should spend your money. :)

Afaik, I haven't used genuine Shindengen (unless many years ago when the go-to 3-phase reg./rec. in GB were 1980's/late-1970's Honda Dream/Superdream from breakers). The guy who put me on to the pattern Honda 3-phase reg./rec from China and Hong Kong posts as "NickL" on BritBike; all-told, he's probably been using them now for about a decade and says he doesn't know of any failures.

Caveat Emptor—all of the £15-£20 (GBP)/$20-$30 (USD) units advertised on E-Bay likely to be fake.
It wasn't 'til I looked more closely at real Shindengens that I realised those pattern reg./rec. are Shindengen knock-offs. However afaik Nick isn't suggesting them as anything more than just a cheap but reliable reg./rec. (and I'm certainly not).

The shunt (short) regulator allows the alternator to produce the maximum it can at any given RPM, any excess current that is not used up by the bikes electrics gets shorted down through the regulator, this produces heat in the regulator (mount in airflow).
Not afaik. Aiui, shunt regulation reduces the AC being rectified by simply connecting the AC outputs together - creating a sort-of short-circuit within the stator coils and wires; it isn't a dangerous short-circuit because the generating coils have some resistance and there isn't any other power source to create or supply a high current in the 'short-circuit'. A short-circuit just within the stator coils and wires also creates a magnetic effect that further depresses the stator's generating ability. Any heat generated by the short-circuit is dissipated in the stator's coils and wires.

Digressing, this is how regulation worked on Britbikes before Zener diodes. Their operation is often (incorrectly) described as the rider "switching" stator coils "in" or "out" when lights were turned on or off. However, because a permanent-magnet alternator generates AC in all stator coils when the rotor is spun, what a bike's switches and wiring actually did when lights were off was short-circuit some of the stator coils, the consequent magnetic field then also depressing the output of the stator coils being used to power the ignition and keep the battery charged. Anything generated in those 'short-circuited' stator coils was dissipated as heat.

Otoh, 'series' regulation actually disconnects and reconnects the stator coils' output. However, as the alternator is permanent-magnet, it's generating all the time the rotor's spinning. As I wrote in post #31, actually disconnecting the stator causes a high Voltage, also dependent on the rotor speed; this Voltage can be high enough to break through insulation.

Whether or not series regulation switched by the latest MOSFETs reduces high disconnection Voltage, or modern P-M alternators have better insulation, or there's other over-Voltage protection in the reg./rec., I don't know. This is at the edge of my comfort zone; if anyone'd like to read more, use the BritBike forum Search (you don't have to sign up) with keywords "shunt series reg", Display Name "NickL" and read his linked posts.

The control unit cuts out only the part of the AC sine wave that is above the required voltage, if you require more current, for example, by switching on the headlamp, then the regulator will cut less of the sine wave until voltage is stabilised.
+1, my understanding also. Then my understanding is a shunt regulator "cuts out only the part of the AC sine wave" by 'short-circuiting' the AC output within the stator coils and wires; (y) otoh, a series regulator will actually disconnect the AC output, causing the undesirable high Voltages. (n)

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Ok so some of this is beyond me but I have a question. I have some time coming to get at this project and was reading about making a 1 ohm resister in the triumph manual . Sounds unnecassary . I took a piece of nichrome wire from a heater and trimmed it until it read 1 ohm , (bounces 1 to1.1, may trim some off) will this work for testing?
 

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Hi Jerry,

for testing?
Test what? In addition to your picture in your second post to the thread, you also posted:-

reexamined the two wires from the stator and found two spots under the casing where both had insulation broke
... the stator's donald (in case you're wondering, "donald" here is English rhyming slang and short for "donald ducked" ... ;)).

Btw, if the stator coils are disconnected from the "load" (rectifier and DC electrics on your bike) when the rotor is spinning, high Voltages (not currents/Amps) are generated within the stator. If the rotor is spinning fast enough, these Voltages can be high enough to damage the stator.

when new stator is installed
I concur with Peg's advice in post #8 - 3-phase stator. I would amplify the advice with:-

. High-output 3-phase (14.5A @ 5,000 rpm instead of the RM21's and low-output 3-phase 10.5A @ those revs.); stator prices are much of a muchness so it doesn't make much sense to pay the same for a lower output?

. Ime, avoid "Genuine Lucas" :LOL: (aka Wassell), Emgo, Sparx, etc.; as I advised in post #29, go specifically for one known in the trade simply as "Made In England". They are a little(?) more expensive than the others, but you won't have the willitfit lottery; if you have trouble finding a US retailer with stock, aiui Coventry Spares is the US importer/wholesaler.

. Unless the rotor is only a few years old, consider replacing it also with a new "Made In England" one.

If you upgrade the stator to 3-phase, you can't use the existing rectifier, and it doesn't make much sense to use the existing Zener. You'd replace with a 3-phase reg./rec.:-

. Either Podtronics - been around for about forty years to my knowledge, copper-bottomed reliability rep., now part of (and back-up from) the aforementioned Coventry Spares, retail for about fifty bucks.

. Or Motorcycle 12v Voltage Regulator Rectifier for Honda CB400 CB250 CB600 CBR900 | eBay plus High Performance Motorcycle Voltage Regulator Rectifier For Honda CBR Motor | eBay - been around for at least ten years afaict, no unreliability stories, no back-up (unless you buy two to have one as a spare :)), less than twenty-five bucks total ...

I need to prevent it from happening again.
With all new charging components connected together, not using any original AC wiring or connections, you've reduced the chances of similar happening again to as low as reasonably practicable?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hi Jerry,

testing the rectifier according to the instructions in the manual.
Ummm ... why? Apart from academic interest?

You posted earlier:-

when new stator is installed I need to prevent it from happening again.
... the existing rectifier could have an intermittent fault that disconnects the stator, that caused the damage to the existing stator; if you're planning to use the existing rectifier and the fault doesn't show up in testing, it could burger the new stator. For the aforementioned cost of even a Podtronics reg./rec., is it worth the gamble?

Hth.

Regards,
 
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