[dajamjar]

Wonder if you guys can help, went to start the bike this morning to go to work as usual but when i turned the ignition on the lights come on, the backlight on the instrument panel comes on but no status lights/mileage etc.

When turning it on the lights come on but the fuel pump doesnt go as usual and when i press the starter nothing turns over, just absolute silence.

If i turn the main beam on that status light comes on, similarly with indicators.

I had a look in older post on this forum and came across one that was promising suggesting fuse number 5 had blown, i have just replaced that one and checked every other fuse and none are gone, to no avail.

When i switched the bike on without fuse 5 in it was exactly the same as starting it with the fuse in, but a new fuse hasnt fixed anything.

The same post suggested disconnecting the battery and turning the ignition to reset something then reconnecting and trying again but this hasnt helped either.

I have taken the bike into work every day this week and when i got home last night i checkedt he oil and plugged the optimate extension cable in.

Initial thought is maybe the battery, perhaps some kind of power surge fried it or my optimate is knackered. I have taken the battery out and plugged it directly into the optimate and will go back in an hour or two and have another play about, but thought i would pop on here and see if anyone else had ideas or experience?

Thanks in advance.

James.

EDIT: Meant to say:

Its a '05 Daytona 955 on an '07 plate, has the factory fitted alarm

 

[Tbirdnz]

You appear to have tried to reset it which is the first step, have you tried the obvious, the kill-switch ? my ignition instrumentation doesn't come on with the kill-switch on. (Honda).

Also try starting with the clutch in.


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Ride on !

 

[dajamjar]

Thanks for the reply.

Checked the killswitch, can even hear the 'click' when i toggle it.

Triumphs need the clutch pulled to start normally, but i've tried it with kickstand up and down etc. Normal starting though, the mileage readout and status lights would all come on when the key gets turned.

James.

 

[Tbirdnz]

Looks like battery then at this stage, if it's a cell or down on power you will still get headlights but not enough to turn the starter. I'd make sure the battery was OK before I looked further.

Only some Triumphs need the clutch in to start !


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Ride on !

 

[dajamjar]

Spoke to the guys who sold me the battery (watchbatteries.com) and they say that batteries kept on a tender only can sometimes do this, so recommend charging it for 1 hour on a car charger, tried this to no avail.

Took the battery into my local deal and they stuck it on their charger and then tested it under load and say the battery is fine.

I am 90% sure this is electrical, so next possibility is the relay. The bikes still got 5 months warranty so arranged for the mechanic to pick it up next week.

I'll let you know how i get on.

James.

 

[DEcosse]

Side stand switch or neutral switch ........ neutral most likely.
Raise the side stand and see if it will start.
Bike either needs to be in neutral - OR the sidestand must be up.
Both need clutch switch also.
Clutch switch is common problem but since your FP does not prime then it is a kill-circuit function and clutch switch irrelevant until you thumb the starter.

edit - could also be your alarm. Try the side-stand test & if it's not that then probably the alarm.

 

[dajamjar]

DEcosse, thanks for th reply.

Its definitely not the sidestand/neutral, because i have tried, but also i am pretty sure the warning lights would normally come on when you turn the ignition, even if the sidestands down and its in gear, its only when you try and press the starter you realise the mistake.

Alarm could be an option, but i would have thought it would present itself earlier if there was an issue. If i turn the ignition without switching off the alarm then the alarm sounds (loud little thing in a garage with the door closed) whereas if i turn the alarm off the ignition turns as if all was well.

Garage cant come get the bike until Tuesday of next week, so hopefull will have answers by about Thursday.

Cheers,

James.

 

[bradtx]

dajamjar, Swap the main power relay (rearmost on outside of subframe) with another like numbered relay.

Brad

 

[DEcosse]

... Swap the main power relay (rearmost on outside of subframe) with another like numbered relay....

Main power relay not in that circuit Brad - the MPR will supply the ignition coils & injectors;
Actually I should correct myself here also for suggesting above the side-stand or nutral switch - those will also interlock the MPR not the ignition relay - as dajamjar recognized.

The Ignition relay is the one that supples the Fuel Pump and Starter circuit. It is the one behind the fuse panel.

One tip is just to feel the relay case as you switch the ignition and see if you can 'feel' it click - or put a screwdriver on it, then your ear on the handle and again 'listen' for the click.

As dakamjar said originally, fuse 5 is definitely the circuit that he should be interested in; or possibly also fuse #3.
Could also be the fall detection switch as a likely contender - that is also behind the fuse panel - next to the Ignition Relay.

Current Flow from battery is in this sequence:

Battery+
Fuse #3
Ignition Switch
Fuse #5
Fall Detect Switch (puts ground on pin 4 of ignition relay) ---> These two must BOTH be in this condition to close ignition relay
Kill/Run Switch (puts power on pin 6 of ignition relay) --------^
Ignition Relay

Power goes from the output of the Ignition relay through the Alarm module out to the ECM, Fuel Pump & Instrument.

Next in line, it also doubles back through another interconnect on the alarm module and on to the Start switch.

From start switch it goes to start solenoid; the ground side of start solenoid is via the clutch switch.

Diagnostics:

1. Check fuses 3 & 5

2. Check for the ignition relay operation - listen/feel; if replace & the same, check for ground via the tilt switch and power from the ignition switch (fuse5) - the alarm is NOT yet in play so the ignition relay should be operational at this point unless there is a fault in either the pwer to it, the ground to it or the relay itself.

3. If relay is clicking and you can't hear pump prime, then alarm is the problem.

If you don't have pump prime or instrument light, forget about chasing start circuit incidentally - need to get the pump & instrument running first.

 

[bradtx]

DEcosse, It is via the MPR coil to the ECM. Lead N to lead YN. The ECM will supply grounds for instrument panel and fuel pump. Block schematics suck!

dajamjar has everything not controlled by the ECM working and if the headlights turn off when the starter button is depressed the circuit you outlined can be considered good.

Brad

 

[DEcosse]

You're correct Brad regarding the ground enable from the ECM - but all of the control circuit as described above is accurate.
Question for dajamjar - does the neutral light come on?
Power for that is same circuit as the fuel pump and starting circuit and doesn't care about the state of the MPR - the headlight cut test is also a good one.

 

[Erickex]

If you haven’t got it yet, try something simple. Follow the wire from your kill switch on the right clip on to behind the right side plastics. The wire has a block plug. It's a long shot, but that may have come loose. If that is the problem, it's the easy and free to fix.

 

[drakewn]

Erickex, thanks for keeping it simple.... Uncle Rico says "Right On!"

 

[Sofalofa]

James, if it's of any use, I had EXACTLY the same problem with my 955 Tiger a couple of years ago. Changed the battery, tried lots of other things. In the end it turned out to be the actual starter button that had gone. In the end the shop changed the whole right-hand switch assembley and it was fine after that

 

[dajamjar]

The bike is getting picked up tomorrow so was out putting the battery in and gave it the start button test you recommend, the lights do not dim and nothing clicks when the starter is pressed.

Also, neutral light does not come on, switch it out of gear, into gear and nothing. The only warning/status lights i can get to come on are indicators and main beam.

James.

 

[Tbirdnz]

I'd go back and check the circuit as outlined by DEcossie, if the headlight doesn't interrupt and neutral light is off and you don't hear the fuel-pump when you press the starter then the fault is in that circuit.


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Ride on !

 

[DEcosse]

....Also, neutral light does not come on, switch it out of gear, into gear and nothing....

HUGE clue James - which is why I asked for that one specifically.

The neutral light gets its power from the same circuit as the start circuit - after the ignition relay and the alarm. It's actually shown in the block diagram above - green/red wire to pin 4 of the instruments panel. The light gets its 'ground' directly from the neutral switch & it's an unlikely coincidence the switch would be an additional issue along with those other symptoms.
The lack of activity on the start circuit (no light cut) also confirms absence of power there.
So that confirms the ignition/start circuit is dead.

Here's another important piece of info that will help determine the problem -
can you hear/feel the ignition relay click when you turn the key on (or even the kill switch on/off with ignition on is easier)
- that is the relay (#6) just behind the fuse panel.

If you can feel it click, then the problem is almost certainly your alarm interlock.

If you can't, then it could be the kill switch, tilt switch, relay itself, or ignition circuit that's bad/fuse blown.

See if you can get some idea of the ignition relay clicking or not.

 

[DEcosse]

.....See if you can get some idea of the ignition relay clicking or not.....

I just went to check mine to see if I could hear it with the seat on - no problem I can hear it easily. In your case, you do want to confirm it is that one though by 'feeling' it.
But wow - found a problem of my own in the process! My headlight cut not working. i.e. lights don't cut! The relay contacts must be shorted!!!

 

[dajamjar]

The bike got picked up first thing, so i cant do any more testing myself but plan to pass this info on to the mechanic if they dont get to it by the end of today.

I can however answer your question DEcosse as its one of the things i noticed when trying to get the bike going at first, with the ignition on there is a click from the relays when i flick the kill switch on and off.

Thanks for all the help with this, i'll let you know how i get on with the mechanics.

James.

 

[DEcosse]

... with the ignition on there is a click from the relays when i flick the kill switch on and off...

Then most likely your alarm is problem I believe .....
Looking forward to hearing the conclusion.