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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My bike cranks really slowly sometimes, other times it is ok. Sometimes it just clicks. It's engaging properly on the starter clutch, I've had one of those die onme before so I know what thats like.
Seems like its "poling out" the battery is good.
I tried to bump start it yesterday and crashed it in the driveway of the servo. Broken LH footpeg, and clutch lever. Will need to do some tests, sounds like I may have to rebuild the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ok I just tested it, 12 odd volts at battery when starter button is pressed. Twelve volts at starter itself, seems to me the starter needs attention. Now wheres that JimmyJ fella? HE knows all about these. I should search for the thread where he rebuilt one.
 

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I would be inclined to try a different battery first. Sometimes it's not enough even though it's showing 12 volts on the tester. A good battery should have better than 12.6v.
 

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I'll agree Jimmyj900 would be a good person to contact on this. Why not PM him just in case he misses this post?
 

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Yeah, I think jimmy900 may have rebuilt a starter for a Triumph before.

Anyways, my two cents: next time it won't turn over at all, try jumping the solenoid contacts with a screwdriver ( after making sure that it is in neutral!!!)

The "click but no crank" report should eliminate all of your safety interlocks ( neutral, side stand, and kill ).
 

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Erratic cranking can have several causes: battery condition, starter solenoid failure or starter failure.

Since you've reported the starter solenoid sometimes 'just clicks' I'd give my odds-on favourite as worn starter brushs -- probably down to about 6mm when you get to checking.

How many miles have you got on the bike? (I'm trying to get a feel for failure rates.)

Anyhow, with an '02 bike you should have a Taigene starter and the problem is that they used really cheap Taiwanese ball bearings with insufficient lubrication. The bearings go 'rough' and cause the armature shaft to wobble which eats the brushes pretty quickly. The wobble isn't too good for the sprag clutch either.

The starter motor is quite rebuildable. The bearings will need replacement by a professional -- it takes the right tools or you'll scrag the armature shaft and have junk to show for the effort. The commutator should be stoned or turned (another pro job) to clean it up, but you can do without that if need be and get another few years from the starter with a bearing and brush replacement.

I was planning on ordering some starter motor stuff late next week, but I'll move that up. I'm about 95% sure I've got a source for replacement (Denso) starters at much less than Triumph prices but I need to order one to be certain. I can also rebuild the Taigene motors but I'm not sure the shiping costs, duties and time back and forth between Oz and the US make sense.

Give me a few days and I'll get it all nailed down. In between, you might want to remove the starter motor and take it to a local electric motor shop for evaluation and find out if they can do the repair or provide a replacement.


Here are some notes from the first draft of the 'Knowledge Base' I'm putting together for the website. Might be useful...
------------------------------------------
Starting Technique:

Always crank with the bike in neutral and the clutch lever squeezed in. This reduces starter motor load and

makes more energy available to spin the engine. The faster the engine spins, the easier it is to start.

Never crank the engine for more than 5-10 seconds at a time and then let the battery "rest" for a period of twice

the cranking time with the ignition turned off. This allows the 'deep' charge energy to migrate to the battery

terminals and will consitantly provide more starting power than is produced during continuous cranking.

Cranking with a partially discharged battery will cause increased strain on the starter motor and starter/sprag

clutch.

Battery -- Charging & Testing:

On bikes with "keeper circuits" that maintain clocks or computer/ECU memory, you must disconnect the battery before charging. Some battery chargers will provide an equilization voltage that may exceed the ratings of the electronics.

Fully charge the battery. It takes about 7 hours to fully charge a drained 14 Amp-Hour battery at a 2 Amp charge rate, so don't short your charging time.

Batteries charge on two levels: Surface charge and deep charge. The deep charge determines the stored energy capacity and the surface charge determines the instantaneous peak voltage.

After charging, let the battery sit for 6-12 hours (12 hours is better) so the surface charge can be absorbed and the voltage readings become meaningful.

With the ignition turned off, measure the battery voltage and compare it to the table below. On bikes with "keeper circuits" that maintain clocks or computer data, the battery must be disconnected.

%Charge ...Voltage
-------------....----------
100 ...........12.73
90 ............12.62
80 ........... 12.50
70 ............12.37
60 ............12.24
50 ............12.10
40 ............11.96
30 ............11.81
20 ............11.66
10 ............11.51

If the measured voltage is in the 70% to 80% range, either try charging the battery again or replace the battery.

NOTE: These voltages are for a standard lead-acid battery. AGM and gel batteries will produce different results, so consult the manufacturer.
----------------------------

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Jim its done 86,000 klms, Im guessing about 55,000 miles. I am in the process of moving house so the bike may not get looked at for a week or so.
 

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I have to agree with jimmyj900. I had the same problem with my bike. The prior owner let the bike sit alot so it started really hard when he did start it. When I got the bike it had 1000 miles on it and the starter was groggy sometimes click click. I put a new battery in and had the same result. Checked volts at batt, solenoid, and starter, all good. Pulled the starter and removed the end cap to find it was full, and I mean full of black carbon from the brushes. I brought it to a local starter shop to match the brushes since a new one was 500 bucks, he said that the waisted brushes was from "cranking the s#!t out of it". He had a set of brushes on hand, charged me 10 bucks for them and I went home cleaned and assembled the starter. All is good. If the brushes are low they will start acting just as you describe.
The starters are very easy to service, just pay attention to how it came apart and make sure you put the spring washer back on the end of the shaft. I also like to use soft scotchbright to clean the surface of the armature, clean in the direction of rotation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Rabbit man, the bike has been used daily since it was new, its on its second battery. I charged the battery for 7 hours then let it sit overnight, just a solenoid click now. Tested voltage, full battery volts at starter terminal. I guess I will have to pull it out this weekend after we have finished moving.***** it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well I got the starter out. It's looking pretty sad. The drive gear looks awfully worn. its very notchy when turned by hand, we'll see what the verdict is tomorrow when the auto elec guy opens it up.
I could be off the road for a while.
A new starter is 1100 aussie bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Nige, got a bid on it. its a denso one so it may be in better nick than te taigene one off mine.
 

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You are welcome!

Best of luck with the auction, Jim.

If it doesn't come off it may be worth having a word with these fellas.

Sprint Manufacturing

They have been breaking Hinckley Triumphs for ages.
No vested interest, but I have been using them for a long time. They have never let me down and are very knowledgeable.

Nige. :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I just dropped my starter off to a local bloke who specialises in bike stuff. Hopefully he can bodgey it up so I can get to work for a bit . Give me a bit of breathing space to get another.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
She's all fixed: Jimmy J the guy who fixed the starter said the brushes were almost non existent, and the bearings were absolutely trashed. Not a lot he could do about the gear, but its working fine for now. Spins really quickly, now I dont remember it turning over that fast when it was new.
Hopefully it will last long enough so I can save up for a nippondenso one. Thanks for all your advice Jim. :-D

Oh yeah for your information Jim. It has done 86,000klms, the last twelve months or so of short commutes, first I was travelling 25 klms each way, nowadays its about 12 klms each way, and I often start it up to ride to the shop at lunchtime. so its done a lot of starting. When out riding I usually stop about every hour or so for a pee. I have old age weak bladder syndrome :-D

[ This message was edited by: WoodsieIII on 2006-12-29 01:19 ]
 

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Just FYI, BMW uses a starter that uses the same brushes as the Triumph. Triumph does not sell brushes but BMW does. The new brushes come one with a post attached and the other with just a tail. You have to find a way to get the tail fastened to the plate for good conduction, I put a good crimp on mine and a bit of electronic solder (do not use plumbing flux and solder, it is acid based, electronic is alcohol based). I have put 10 months and 5000 miles on since the repair without a hitch.
 
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