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Discussion Starter #21
Hi DU75389, You can buy direct from Leak Proof. Or use their part # & search else where. I've only used the classic version, never the low friction. But I've only put them in T140 forks so far. Verify Triumph # to make sure you get correct leak proof.

Leak Proof Fork Seals.

I saw a post from you & it disappeared. Regarding sanding chrome tubes. The chrome is not like highly polished like a head light shell. They are more like fine ground. Sanding can sort of replicate this. Post some very clear detailed photos of tubes after you remove rust. That will give a lot more information.
Don
I think found the correct part.


What is the shelf life of these items and life once installed?

I have some scotch-brite and an brass bristle brush on the way from Amazon. Once its here I will try Stu's suggestion and yours and maybe do a side-by-side comparison.
 

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Sounds like a plan. The way I read it those are correct for your bike

If they feel good I’d not even scotchbrite them.

I’d not get NOS on eBay. They are not cheap but work well.

I don’t know shelf life. I’d expect 5-10 years.

I don’t know how long they last. I’ve had them in my ‘73 Tiger 4 years & 16k miles. Still nothing leaking. Bike has 36k miles. Original tubes & sliders. So they have some wear. Some tiny rust pits here & there. I ride in the wet so deterioration never stops.

I will only install leak proof.

Why don’t you try the aluminum foil right now. Any brand is fine. My wife has normal Renolds Wrap in the kitchen drawer. I tear off a foot & start rubbing. That simple.

Take detailed close photos before & after. Nothing to loose.

Tip if you use iPhone, zoom camera 25-50%. Hold camera steady as you can. Start 2” from rust. Slowly pull camera back until it’s sharp focus. Don’t need tripod, but if you are not steady it won’t focus.

I’d like to see the photos. At the moment I doubt it will leak no matter how you clean rust off with the leak proof.

Very important you do not gouge bore where seal is pressed in!! Use no sealant. Leak proof is sliding fit on both ID & OD. So outside of seal needs smooth surface as well. It must have at least 2mm end float. This are not like normal seals at all.

Don’t stress over this. The tubes will clean up or not. Worst case you need tubes & another set of seals. Your only out your hobby time hours.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I recently purchased a kit that included brass bushes and the fork seals for my '68 forks. Both are UK made. I have looked around for the leak-proof seals online and so far, based on what I can see, they seem to be the only game in town:


LP Williams and Ariete are some of the other recommended brands but I don't think either have replacement spares for anything older than 1970/71.

What is the consensus of the quality of the product cited above (in the link)?

Thanks

Jeff
 

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Hi Jeff, Did you do tear down yet? I'd do tear down & inspect the OD in seal holder to be sure it's not damaged. If it's not damaged I'd get the leak proof.

If damaged don't get leak proof. If damaged you'll need to glue seal OD to holder or it will leak on OD. The way the seal is pressed into seal holder makes it much easier to remove than on say a T140. So it's probably not damaged. Don't mess around. Get the real tool for unscrewing seal holder.

The steel sliders like what you have don't tend to leak very much at all if the normal seals are correctly installed. This includes the o-ring in seal holder or bushing retainer, whatever you want to call it. So don't stress over the seals. The normal kind are ok for your bike.

On the other hand... The alloy sliders used '71 & newer leaked from new. In a few months mine leaked so bad it would squirt oil onto the gas tank & my chest over large bumps! They were very difficult to keep from leaking. Finally when Triumph installed leak proof from new at factory, the fork quit leaking. Leak proof seals are the real deal. Again, if seal holder is damaged they will leak though.

I don't know what bikes Ariete makes seals for. Like you the way I read LP Williams site, the only stock Ariete for alloy slider/T140 type fork. Don't mistake the T120 there as the 71,72 & later T120 had alloy sliders.

I don't see your seals in Ariete catalog. That's surprising. Take a look. I may have missed them. The home page has translate to English button if needed.

Copertina Catalogo Ari 2018 (ariete.com)
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Hi Don,

Sorry, remind me what OD is short for? Im reading it as outside diameter, but context seems a bit off to me.

Basically, I am starting from scratch, and everything is in pieces, including brand new dust excluders/seal holders (non-chromed, alloy type), new bushes, new seals and two sets of NOS stanchions (including the highly corroded one-off stanchion). The sintered brass bushes and seal was purchased as a set from Classic British Spares and they claim its from the UK, but thats all I know. I compared it to the old ones (which I no longer have) and they look the same (o-ring design).

My old factory chrome excluders were pretty trashed and I didn't think they could be saved, so they were sold off as scrap. I scrapped the old tubes years ago, and if memory serves, they were badly corroded. I had a hell of a time trying to get the old seals out of the original excluders, which made me wonder if there was a special tool to remove it. The workshop manual is not entirely clear about that. I would not want to have to go through that procedure all over again with a beautiful new set of excluders, which is what I had.

Do you know if there is a special install and removal drift for 68-70 forks? I tried using a large sized socket but did not have much luck with that and it just seemed too imprecise and prone to slippage. Maybe a really large diameter hardwood dowel would do it? I never like using metal on metal, unless its a soft metal on a harder one.
 

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Hi Jeff, Yes, OD is outside diameter, in this case meaning the OD of the seal where it's pressed into holder. I guess I should have said ID of holder where seal is pressed into.

So far as I know Triumph didn't make installer drift for fork seals. I like hard plastic or aluminum for seal drivers. Plastic can explode so always wear safety glasses. Should anyway when driving. I have aluminum seal & bearing drivers. I have used used sockets to drive seals & bearings many times as well. A hardwood dowel would work good to I'd think.

I believe the seal kit from Classic British Spares is a good quality. Since you have it, I'd use it.

Code Man our fellow member did fork seals a few years ago. We are friends. I'd send him a PM & see if he recalls what seals he used. Had a leak at the threads, which he fixed. We've ridden many miles together & I don't recall seeing any l Teaks. Nice guy. He's made hardwood drifts to install bearings. I don't know how he installed fork seals. He may have some photos. He totally went through every last part of bike. Has '76 T140 motor, he converted to right foot shift. This bike is a runner!! If he doesn't respond I'll text him.

Personally I'd put a little Rector seal #5 pipe dope on threads. Ace or Home Depot. I use this 100% of time on later forks. Will unscrew later if needed. Hylomar blue would work too. I don't how it would unscrew later though.
Don
 

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Hi Jeff,
I recently purchased a kit that included brass bushes and the fork seals for my '68 forks. Both are UK made. I have looked around for the leak-proof seals online and so far, based on what I can see, they seem to be the only game in town:
'68 Triumph fork seals part # is H1500. If you click on the link Don posted:-
Leak Proof Fork Seals.
... a table is displayed, top left cell of which says, "To Replace H1500"; it's a hyperlink so, if you click on it, the same webpage as the one you've linked is displayed. It appears to be possible to buy online from that webpage?

LP Williams and Ariete are some of the other recommended brands
Uh-uh. "LP Williams" is a British spares retailer, they don't make fork seals, only sell 'em. "Ariete" is one of the brands of fork seals LPW sells (Leak Proof is another, as are current versions of original H1500 and 97-4001). The Ariete seals LPW sells look like 97-4001, hence LPW's part # is 97-4001A; aiui they work better than original 97-4001's but, as my Leak Proof's haven't ever needed replacing, never tried 'em.

don't think either have replacement spares for anything older than 1970/71.
LPW has 97-1500?

What is the consensus of the quality of the product cited above (in the link)?
Leak Proofs are good and the webpage says, "All LEAK PROOF SEALS/WIPERS come with a lifetime guarantee to the original owner" ...

seal kit from Classic British Spares
Since you have it, I'd use it.
+1. Afaict, LPW sell two alternatives to 97-4001 because the original was crap; otoh, although there's a Leak Proof alternative to H1500, LPW don't sell it because ...?

threads
Hylomar blue would work too. I don't how it would unscrew later
I've used Hylomar for decades. Can't be bad if Rolls-Royce recommend it? Follow the instructions for a seal, unscrews later (y)

Hth.

Regards,
 

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I'm a recent convert to Hylomar and I can say it works great. I finally have a non leaking primary case. I used Hylomar on the oil level screw, and no more leaks from there. That was the one place I could never get my primary to stop leaking from.

Rob
 

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I'm a recent convert to Hylomar and I can say it works great. I finally have a non leaking primary case. I used Hylomar on the oil level screw, and no more leaks from there. That was the one place I could never get my primary to stop leaking from.

Rob
There is a BSA part, 40-0740, which is an 1/4" aluminium washer which is used for exactly the same job, works a treat.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Hi Jeff,

'68 Triumph fork seals part # is H1500. If you click on the link Don posted:-

... a table is displayed, top left cell of which says, "To Replace H1500"; it's a hyperlink so, if you click on it, the same webpage as the one you've linked is displayed. It appears to be possible to buy online from that webpage?


Uh-uh. "LP Williams" is a British spares retailer, they don't make fork seals, only sell 'em. "Ariete" is one of the brands of fork seals LPW sells (Leak Proof is another, as are current versions of original H1500 and 97-4001). The Ariete seals LPW sells look like 97-4001, hence LPW's part # is 97-4001A; aiui they work better than original 97-4001's but, as my Leak Proof's haven't ever needed replacing, never tried 'em.


LPW has 97-1500?


Leak Proofs are good and the webpage says, "All LEAK PROOF SEALS/WIPERS come with a lifetime guarantee to the original owner" ...


+1. Afaict, LPW sell two alternatives to 97-4001 because the original was crap; otoh, although there's a Leak Proof alternative to H1500, LPW don't sell it because ...?


I've used Hylomar for decades. Can't be bad if Rolls-Royce recommend it? Follow the instructions for a seal, unscrews later (y)

Hth.

Regards,
Hey Stu-

I am clear on what Don is suggesting, and which "Leak Proof" brand he is recommending. I am certainly considering those, but he doesn't appear to think that I need them, but I might pick up a pair any way out of curiosity. Because "leak proof" is both a category and a brand, it can sometimes be hard to follow the discussion.

H1500 are the replacement parts that I need, and part number 97-4001 seems to map to OIF fork seals, which I do not have. I suppose any mention of that is relevant from the standpoint that that is the nearest replacement part that Ariete makes for early model Triumphs? Its a pity that they don't offer alternatives for the earlier models.

How exactly would the Hylomar be applied to the fork seals or stanchions, I am curious.

And off topic a bit, do you have any suggestions for the installation and removal of new and old seals? I struggled to get the old seals out of my old holders which I ended up scrapping anyway. Don had some good suggestions, wondering what your experience has been as an old and skilled Triumph hand? And special tools

Thank you!

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Hi Jeff, Yes, OD is outside diameter, in this case meaning the OD of the seal where it's pressed into holder. I guess I should have said ID of holder where seal is pressed into.

So far as I know Triumph didn't make installer drift for fork seals. I like hard plastic or aluminum for seal drivers. Plastic can explode so always wear safety glasses. Should anyway when driving. I have aluminum seal & bearing drivers. I have used used sockets to drive seals & bearings many times as well. A hardwood dowel would work good to I'd think.

I believe the seal kit from Classic British Spares is a good quality. Since you have it, I'd use it.

Code Man our fellow member did fork seals a few years ago. We are friends. I'd send him a PM & see if he recalls what seals he used. Had a leak at the threads, which he fixed. We've ridden many miles together & I don't recall seeing any l Teaks. Nice guy. He's made hardwood drifts to install bearings. I don't know how he installed fork seals. He may have some photos. He totally went through every last part of bike. Has '76 T140 motor, he converted to right foot shift. This bike is a runner!! If he doesn't respond I'll text him.

Personally I'd put a little Rector seal #5 pipe dope on threads. Ace or Home Depot. I use this 100% of time on later forks. Will unscrew later if needed. Hylomar blue would work too. I don't how it would unscrew later though.
Don
Don, are you referring to the threads on the mating surfaces of the sliders and dust excluder/seal holder?
 

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Hi Jeff, Yes, where the seal holder screws onto the steel slider. There is is oring to seal threads on later years. Might have started in '69 though?? Anyway, oil can seep by the threads where seal holder screws onto slider. Even with o-ring it can still seep.
Don
 

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On a side note, yes it can be confusing. Leak Proof is a brand. I don't know if they actually make the seals though. I recently got a genuine NOS late T140 slider to replace dented one. Snap ring type with leak proof from factory. The seal was obviously old as the slider. I had brand new set of Leak Proof (T140 of course) on hand. Trade mark on both new seals & old seal was exactly the same.... So that was interesting. I don't know where Triumph sourced their seals for these later forks.

I know for 100% certain there is someone else making at least the press fit retainer rings. I don't know who. Leak proof has a very nicely machined press in ring. They fit well. The other ones are crudely made with sharp corners & tend to scuff alloy of slider when installing. The seal rings on these have no trade mark.... Just smooth on top. I've seen 2 sets now. I've seen these for sale on eBay as well. I don't know maker. Looking at photos on LP Williams I can't tell what maker his seals are.

Photo of Leak Proof brand seal. Notice the odd way numbers are shaped. Both new & old exactly the same.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I got pulled away by work but took 5 minutes out of my day today to experiment with the brass brush and very fine scotch pad (I have not tried the foil trick yet, though not optimistic that it will be too helpful for the pits, thanks Don).

Initial observations so far: the brass brush works well in removing the lighter surface rust while the scotch pad is good for the more stubborn more penetrating rust, but at the cost of dulling the finish (not sure if that is a problem).

Since it was a test I did not use a lot of force with the brass brush so I have to take another pass at it, this time with more gusto and elbow grease.

There are detectable prominences on the hardened chrome from the rust but I will try to remove those with the scotch pad. Im wondering what the consequences of dulling the hardened chrome finish would be when using requisite force? Furthermore, assuming I go to the length of filling the pits with epoxy (thanks Stu, NMTR6), when sanding, what grit sandpaper would I used, and how do I get the polish back?
 

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Hi Jeff,

Sorry, I missed this earlier ... :oops:
How exactly would the Hylomar be applied to the fork seals or stanchions,
Uh-uh, Hylomar to screw threads ...

H1500 are the replacement parts that I need, and part number 97-4001 seems to map to OIF fork seals, which I do not have. I suppose any mention of that is relevant from the standpoint that that is the nearest replacement part that Ariete makes for early model Triumphs? Its a pity that they don't offer alternatives for the earlier models.
My feeling is there are few alternatives to H1500 because it works well. Otoh, on the "build a better mousetrap" principle, there are a couple of alternatives to the original 97-4001 because the original's crap; 'fraid no idea how well the Ariete alternative works because I fitted the Leak Proofs before the Ariete was available and the Leakproofs haven't ever given any trouble. (y)

suggestions for the installation and removal of new and old seals?
'Fraid I can't offer better than Don's advice. Perhaps curiously, I don't have much experience of extracting H1500's; because my T100 has disc-brake forks, I only have one Triumph with H1500's (my T150) and they haven't given any trouble. The few other Triumphs I've worked on with H1500's, iirc the seal holders were being replaced so new seals went into new holders.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hey there, so when I did my forks/seals after applying jb weld to fill the numerous holes etc I started sanding with a 120 grit (mainly cos I used a bit too much jb weld) once the worst of the high spots were done I used 320 grit then 600 grit to achieve a smooth finish. You could polish up with mothers or autosol (I didn't, but, maybe I should have........might have helped with stiction!). I found that it is important to make sure everything gets lots of oil before assembly (otherwise you will have to do it all again.......which is so much fun!). Hope that helps. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Hey there, so when I did my forks/seals after applying jb weld to fill the numerous holes etc I started sanding with a 120 grit (mainly cos I used a bit too much jb weld) once the worst of the high spots were done I used 320 grit then 600 grit to achieve a smooth finish. You could polish up with mothers or autosol (I didn't, but, maybe I should have........might have helped with stiction!). I found that it is important to make sure everything gets lots of oil before assembly (otherwise you will have to do it all again.......which is so much fun!). Hope that helps. Cheers
Cool, thanks. So oil everything from the seals to the threaded fittings, to the stanchion tubes as well?

Is JB Weld about the best epoxy option out there?
 

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Hi Jeff,
So oil everything from the seals to the threaded fittings, to the stanchion tubes as well?
Oil threads you don't want Hylomar to seal ...

I oil the inside of the seal and the bottom of a stanchion, including the hex., before I fit the seal over the hex. on to the stanchion; once the seal's on the stanchion, I don't add any more oil to the remainder of the stanchion (the seal is supposed to keep the oil below it, inside the slider; let it work out its own lubrication?).

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Yes, oil away! JB Weld is indeed an epoxy product. I've always had good luck with it (been using it for 30+ years), rebuilt timing covers with it, just need everything clean first. (Not too keen on the quick dry variety..........the original jb weld takes about 24 hrs to cure, they produced a version that cures in 1/2 an hour (or something like that, haven't got any to check), I have not found that to be as effective. However I would reckon any epoxy would do.Cheers
 
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