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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, can anyone help me. Bike is on 1 cylinder & speedo keeps altering as it's ridden. Fetched the injector rail out & ran engine, one injector just sprays fuel constantly, swopped the injector & the replacement one does the same thing. Help!!! Bike is a "52" plate & has been starting up on 1 then 2 then 3 as it warms up for a week or so, thought it needed plugs, but made no difference.
 

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Bad news, I'm afraid.
If you swapped the injector with one that was functioning and that, in turn, started to spray a steady stream, you probably have a bad ECU. The injector driver within has shorted and is leaving the injector full on.

A good electronics technician may be able to swap the driver out provided the number is readable. The alternative is to obtain a similar ECU from a breaker.
 

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Another thing to consider is that a flooding injector can be caused by a short in that circuit.

If it were me I would wring out the harness, for shorts and continuity before going the ECU replacement route. I'd also check each injector resistance for my peace of mind.

What bike are we talking about, and what the heck is a "52" plate?

Just remembered that TuneBoy will display each injector pulse width. If he knew somebody with one, all he would need to do is purchase a key for his bike.
 

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Welcome

Hi, can anyone help me. Bike is on 1 cylinder & speedo keeps altering as it's ridden. Fetched the injector rail out & ran engine, one injector just sprays fuel constantly, swopped the injector & the replacement one does the same thing. Help!!! Bike is a "52" plate & has been starting up on 1 then 2 then 3 as it warms up for a week or so, thought it needed plugs, but made no difference.
Welcome to the forum Dened:)

Don and I ask all our noobs to please read our forum stickies to help understand our rules and how we run the place.:)

Also it would be easier for members to help you out if you put your general location in your signature and also enteered your bike and model under "Favourite Bike"

It just makes things easier for all concerned.

Enjoy the forum
DaveM:cool:
 

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and model under "Favourite Bike"
Might not be his favourite bike at the moment though Dave. :)

Welcome to the forum Dened, hope you get it sorted easily.
 

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OnD, as usual, has a good idea.

Most injectors these days are provided with a constant 12 volts and the ground is switched by the ECU.

Most meters are not fast enough to register the voltage change with the engine running but they might with the engine cranking. Of course, you will have to take into account the dropped voltage due to the engine cranking. A good RMS meter might show a difference in the voltage between the various injectors. Compare the good ones with the bad. That still won't rule out a bad ECU unfortunately.

To do that, you will need to disconnect the harness at the ECU and the injector both and then look for continuity to chassis ground on one of the leads. To protect the meter, it might be a good idea to disconnect the battery as well.
 

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He's from Blighty. 52 is the start of the registration, year related .. We have two new registrations a year, one in March and one in September. 52 is September 2002, 02 would have been March 2002. Currently on 09, September will be 59. Can't wait till 2019 :D

PS he said he ran the engine and it sprayed out constantly. If it was spraying with the ignition live but engine not running I could believe it might be a loom fault. Must be worth trying an ECU remap just in case as well ..
 

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Don't know much about ECUs in bikes but if it has a faulty circuit wouldn't the whole thing lock up and refuse to cooperate? Even to the extent of failing another download? I have pocket PC which is exhibiting that behaviour right now. That said, I would suspect the wiring harness and connectors. 5-7 years is about the time some parts start to fail from age and extended use.
 

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The injector drivers are nothing more than a power transistor on the circuit board. No reason a failure of one of them would lock up the ECU or cause a bad upload. The CPU merely sends a signal to the transistor to turn on. It doesn't care if it actually turns on which is why a TuneBoy won't tell you much. It will still show the normal pulse width for that cylinder.

The problem could certainly be deeper in the CPU though. The chip, likely the same chip driving all 3 transistors could have a problem. That could be a good thing, really, as there may be a spare circuit that could be jumpered into use to fix the problem. Of course, doing so would require some pretty good electronics knowledge and finding the problem is probably well beyond the scope (pun intended) of the average motorcycle technician.
 

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It might help to know what year the bike is.

Try this:

a) Unplug the electrical connector on the "stuck" injector.

b) Turn the ignition on.

c) Re connect the "stuck" injector with the ignition still on.
If you don't hear a click, ignore the rest of this post.
If you do hear a click, read on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

d) Turn the ignition off.

e) Unplug the electrical connectors at the ECU.

f) Unplug the "stuck" injector.

g) Turn the ignition on.

h) Re connect the "stuck" injector with the ignition still on.
If you don't hear a click, it's the ECU.
If you do hear a click, it's the wiring.
 

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Might or might not work though, elegant as it may be.
If the 12v is provided via the ECU connection to the injectors, it won't work, as, with the ECU side unplugged, no power will get down to the injectors.

Knowing the year and model of the bike and having a schematic would certainly be useful. I can imagine the bike being wired either way, 12 v from the ECU or 12 volt off the ignition switched power.
 

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05+ route switched 12V directly to injectors and coils from the engine management relay.

I don't know about prior years.
Routing switched 12V through the ECU would seem a waste of expensive real estate and connector pins but I've seen sillier things done.

It will work on 05+
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi, can anyone help me. Bike is on 1 cylinder & speedo keeps altering as it's ridden. Fetched the injector rail out & ran engine, one injector just sprays fuel constantly, swopped the injector & the replacement one does the same thing. Help!!! Bike is a "52" plate & has been starting up on 1 then 2 then 3 as it warms up for a week or so, thought it needed plugs, but made no difference.
Thanks for your help & comments, will fill in the favourite bike bit, didn't realise this was such a global site (kind of figured that when some didn't get the "52" plate bit!! der) anyway, I'm going back in the garage to try your suggestions, can't stand another week of going to work in the car! Thanks again.
 

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Thanks for your help & comments, will fill in the favourite bike bit, didn't realise this was such a global site (kind of figured that when some didn't get the "52" plate bit!! der) anyway, I'm going back in the garage to try your suggestions, can't stand another week of going to work in the car! Thanks again.
Hi Dened
Had a couple of similar probs. It turned out to be the big connector just behind the engine, and a dodgy earth in the return lead to the lhs handlebar. At first glance the connector seemed ok, but was full of water and the pins were dissolving. Teach me to ride in the winter, salted roads dont mix with electrics. Suggest you take tank/seat off and check connectors, break them open and wd40 them. Hope this helps, let know how get on. Snake
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It might help to know what year the bike is.

Try this:

a) Unplug the electrical connector on the "stuck" injector.

b) Turn the ignition on.

c) Re connect the "stuck" injector with the ignition still on.
If you don't hear a click, ignore the rest of this post.
If you do hear a click, read on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

d) Turn the ignition off.

e) Unplug the electrical connectors at the ECU.

f) Unplug the "stuck" injector.

g) Turn the ignition on.

h) Re connect the "stuck" injector with the ignition still on.
If you don't hear a click, it's the ECU.
If you do hear a click, it's the wiring.
Hi
Tried this & the suspect cylinder does make the injector click, the others don't though. Unplugging the ECU doesn't work because you loose the permanent feed them. However the voltage at this plug is battery voltage on one & 5.4 Volts on the other, all the rest are 7.3 Volts (I'm no electrician & don't know if I should be reading Voltage there because I was expecting an earth, but that cylinder lead will switch any of the injectors on & the other leads don't) One of the tips was an ECU re-set, so I'm just going to look elsewhere on the site & see if I can find how to do it.
Regards
Den
 

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More tests

I am not sure how to interpret what you are saying.
I doubt resetting will do much for a wiring or ECU short.

The following approach should work for lack of an '02 schematic.
The measurements should narrow the issue down and I can follow the format.
Could you replace the question marks with measurements in the following text?

It doesn't matter what pin you call a or b, just be consistent across all 3 connectors and both sets of measurements.
Be consistent with the cylinder numbering as well.
Let me know which cylinder is stuck, though I should be able to tell from the data.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First set of data with ECU connected.

DC Voltage measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition on:

Cyl1_a = ? Vdc
Cyl1_b = ? Vdc

Cyl2_a = ? Vdc
Cyl2_b = ? Vdc

Cyl3_a = ? Vdc
Cyl3_b = ? Vdc

Resistance measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition off:

Cyl1_a = ? Ohm
Cyl1_b = ? Ohm

Cyl2_a = ? Ohm
Cyl2_b = ? Ohm

Cyl3_a = ? Ohm
Cyl3_b = ? Ohm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second set of data with ECU disconnected.

DC Voltage measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition on:

Cyl1_a = ? Vdc
Cyl1_b = ? Vdc

Cyl2_a = ? Vdc
Cyl2_b = ? Vdc

Cyl3_a = ? Vdc
Cyl3_b = ? Vdc

Resistance measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition off:

Cyl1_a = ? Ohm
Cyl1_b = ? Ohm

Cyl2_a = ? Ohm
Cyl2_b = ? Ohm

Cyl3_a = ? Ohm
Cyl3_b = ? Ohm
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I am not sure how to interpret what you are saying.
I doubt resetting will do much for a wiring or ECU short.

The following approach should work for lack of an '02 schematic.
The measurements should narrow the issue down and I can follow the format.
Could you replace the question marks with measurements in the following text?

It doesn't matter what pin you call a or b, just be consistent across all 3 connectors and both sets of measurements.
Be consistent with the cylinder numbering as well.
Let me know which cylinder is stuck, though I should be able to tell from the data.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First set of data with ECU connected.

DC Voltage measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition on:

Cyl1_a = 11.8 Vdc
Cyl1_b = 5 Vdc

Cyl2_a = 11.8 Vdc
Cyl2_b = 7.1 Vdc

Cyl3_a = 11.8 Vdc
Cyl3_b = 7.1 Vdc

Resistance measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition off:

Cyl1_a = 487 Ohm
Cyl1_b = 1 Ohm

Cyl2_a = 486 Ohm
Cyl2_b = 1 Ohm

Cyl3_a = 486 Ohm
Cyl3_b = 1 Ohm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second set of data with ECU disconnected.

DC Voltage measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition on:

Cyl1_a = 0 Vdc
Cyl1_b = 0 Vdc

Cyl2_a = 0 Vdc
Cyl2_b = 0 Vdc

Cyl3_a = 0 Vdc
Cyl3_b = 0 Vdc

Resistance measurements, Harness side injector connector contacts to ground, ignition off:

Cyl1_a = 1 Ohm
Cyl1_b = 1 Ohm

Cyl2_a = 1 Ohm
Cyl2_b = 1 Ohm

Cyl3_a = 1 Ohm
Cyl3_b = 1 Ohm
I appreciate your time, trying to help me on this. Not sure if I had my meter on the right resistance settings, 1 is open curcuit. The problem injector is No1. You can hear the injector switching on when you plug No1 onto an injector (tried the other injectors & it switches them also) No 2 & 3 don't switch on when they are connected to the right plugs. Reading other peoples problems, have realised that re-setting is just adaptive learning, so I now realise that, that will not help.
Cheers
 

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Ok, bottom line first... I strongly suspect that your ECU is toast.
At this point I would start checking eBay first and salvage lots second for a used ECU. ebay will likely be cheaper for that sort of item.

If you really want to verify this before going parts shopping you gould find an adventurous individual with an '02 in your area and verify that swapping parts brings the bike to life.
I'd be game but I've got an '07 Keihin ECU and there's that small matter of the pond.

The voltage measurements in the first set of data indicate an issue with the ECU's #1 injector drive.
A harness fault would likely read 0 Volts or 11.8 Volts instead of 5 Volts.

I don't care for the fact that your meter displays 1 for open circuit. Maybe it's actually 0l as on overload or overrange. Hopefully you would see somethig like 0.99 or 1.02 if you read an actual 1 Ohm resistance.
The 480ish readings in the first set of data lead me to believe that you used the meter correctly. My bike and it appears yours as well has a preload resistor wrapped into the harness. That part on my bike is around 470 Ohm.


I appreciate your time, trying to help me on this. Not sure if I had my meter on the right resistance settings, 1 is open curcuit. The problem injector is No1. You can hear the injector switching on when you plug No1 onto an injector (tried the other injectors & it switches them also) No 2 & 3 don't switch on when they are connected to the right plugs. Reading other peoples problems, have realised that re-setting is just adaptive learning, so I now realise that, that will not help.
Cheers
 
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