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Discussion Starter #1
In a recent thread the comment was made that spokes should not touch. I noticed that the spokes on the sprocket side of the rear wheel do touch. The spokes on the other side do not. Wheel appears to spin true; do I have a problem? Also several can be tightened a quarter turn or so. Can you just tighten them all without a negative effect on the wheel?

Stan
 

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dont worry about them touching and dont whatever you do try to adjust them unless you know what you are doing. The nipples should not be wound up tight they are adjusters.

In order to true a spoked wheel you turn the nipples to move the rim of the wheel in relation to the hub. Not a job to be attempted without knowing exactly what you are doing.
 

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I'll second what Mick said and add that a on a properly tuned set of spokes they all 'ring' to the same note when tapped with a plastic screwdriver handle.

Tight spokes ring at a higher note than loose spokes, but if they're too tight they can snap and if too loose they can bend or let the wheel go out of true. It's actually a fairly delicate balance.

The spokes shouldn't be touching each other but you'll need to take the wheel to a pro to get them set properly.

Check the local (small) motorcycle shops and see if they've got an expert on tap BEFORE you try adjusting them yourself. Experience.... :-D

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #6
On 2006-12-05 15:47, jimmyj900 wrote:
I just took a look at Mutato's rear wheel and the spokes are touching on the sprocket side.

Factory defect or secret plan? :-D

Jim
Maybe to match the offset of the front wheel in the fork. But why?

If anyone else has the same situation, it has to be as intended.

Stan
 

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IIRC my rear wheel was the same from new - hence my saying dont worry about to too much. It was / is my guess that touching doesnt matter too much with stainless spokes so long as there is no real pressure involved which would lead to the spokes wearing or breaking .

[ This message was edited by: MickMaguire on 2006-12-06 07:15 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The touching spokes was part of the worry since that came up in a broken spoke thread. Also since they are touching on the one side and not on the other, does that mean the wheel is not centered on the hub? I mean, we are only talking a mm or two difference but is still interesting. Since yours was like that from new I'll not worry about it. Like the front wheel being offset in the fork bugs me but they are all like that so it obviously that way for a reason.

Stan
 

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my wheel was even though. I think I would check for straightness and trueness of the wheel - you shoudl be able to do a rough check of this by getting the wheel off the ground and spinning it close to a static reference pointer. If it is off then you need to find a wheel builder to true it up for you.

P.S. I may have been wrong about my spokes - it is a while now since I last saw the wheel. They may have just been extremely close, but I do seem to remember thinking on the issue of spokes touching. Memory isnt what it used to be :-D

[ This message was edited by: MickMaguire on 2006-12-06 09:58 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Using a screwdriver taped to a jack stand as an indicator, the wheel seems to be true. I realize checking with the tire mounted is not 100% especially considering my sophisticated test equipment. I could not visually detect any run-out or out of round condition. I still wonder if the wheel is offset on the hub a bit. I may take the wheel to a pro when it needs a tire.

I did notice that my tire is wearing unevenly again. Just as I describe in an earlier post but not all the way slick yet. This new AM23 has only been on for about 5k mi.

Old Post
:???:

Stan
 

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its better to check against the rim itself than the tire. Its possible your wheel isnt true (especially if you have tire wear issues). I think I'd be inclined to have a wheel builder look at it for peace of mind if nothing else.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
On 2006-12-12 07:34, MickMaguire wrote:
its better to check against the rim itself than the tire. Its possible your wheel isnt true (especially if you have tire wear issues). I think I'd be inclined to have a wheel builder look at it for peace of mind if nothing else.
I was checking at the outer edge of the rim. But that is probably not the best. Still nothing scary showed up there. If there is a problem I think it would take an expert to detect it. The tire wear issue has got to be something to do with the wheel (or something mechanical). I had hoped the previous tire was flat spotted or the tire/wheel out of balance. That should not be the case with the second tire. Now I have to decide if I can wait until this tire is pretty much shot since it will never wear right anyway, or get it checked now.

Stan
 

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My 2 cents worth is this. The spokes touching is not an issue as long as there is no corrosion or electrolisis causing weakness at the contact point. They however should not be arched across each other (bent) this would indicate too much offset. I fully agree that adjustments should only be done by someone that has the proper training and equipment to do the job. As far as tire wear being off center, in northern areas the roads are crowned for water runoff so the CG and crown cause you to ride on the (roads) centerline side of the tire there by causing it to wear toward the left, in the states anyway. This is true for both front and rear. This is also why car alignments show a few degrees of differencial or offset allowing the car to trac straight on a road surface that pitches to the right, otherwise you would always have a pull toward the ditch. I have never seen a rear hub centered in the wheel, always seems to be offset away from the sprocket slightly. OK 3 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
On 2006-12-12 12:28, ecrabbit96 wrote:
My 2 cents worth is this. The spokes touching is not an issue as long as there is no corrosion or electrolisis causing weakness at the contact point. They however should not be arched across each other (bent) this would indicate too much offset.
They are not bent only touching on the one side, plenty of clearance on the other.

As far as tire wear being off center, in northern areas the roads are crowned for water runoff so the CG and crown cause you to ride on the (roads) centerline side of the tire there by causing it to wear toward the left, in the states anyway. This is true for both front and rear.
The wear is not off center, it is uneven around the circumference. Like it has a flat spot that is wearing more than the rest of the tire.

I have never seen a rear hub centered in the wheel, always seems to be offset away from the sprocket slightly. OK 3 cents.
So, you're saying the rim not being centered on the hub is not unusual. That again makes me feel a little better. Though in this case the rim would be offset towards the sprocket (I think).

Stan

[ This message was edited by: SWare on 2006-12-12 22:57 ]
 

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I did notice that my tire is wearing unevenly again. Just as I describe in an earlier post but not all the way slick yet. This new AM23 has only been on for about 5k mi.
I looked at your previous post and you said that the tire wear was concentrated in the center of the tread, but that half the tire was worn and the other half looked good. Is that a correct analysis?

Contentious opinion warning.... tire pressure.

Overinflation causes tires to wear with a flat strip and the higher the pressure, the sharper the corners on that flat strip. Underinflation causes motorcycle tires to wear into a 'V' shape when you're looking down on the tire from the top. Proper inflation cause tires to wear into a flattened oval with very slight (if any) ridges.

It's pretty clear from your wear description that you're running with excessive pressure on the rear tire, but the explanation of why you're experiencing that specific wear pattern of bald to normal is less clear.

The obvious explanation would be that the tread is simply thinner on one part of the tire than the other, but a quarter inch of difference in tread thickness would show up as a pretty severe imbalance and a bunch of wheel weights at mounting time.

A less obvious explanation would be a variation in sidewall stiffness or density that affected the amount of tire flex and therefore the width of the tread that would be on the road surface.


As an aside, I'm running 28-30 psi in the rear tire and 36-38 psi in the front.

Jim
 

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Stan...

Have you asked Keith to take a look?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
JimmyJ
I've tried different tire pressures and the best feel for me seems to be very close to factory recommendations. I typically run 40psi in the rear and 38 in the front. Over inflation could account for excessive wear down the center of the tire. I attributed that to 90% highway use. So that may or may not be part of the problem. The uneven wear almost has to be the result of something out of whack. This is the second tire that has worn this way.

Chris
No I haven't talked to Keith yet.
That is my next step I guess.

Stan

[ This message was edited by: SWare on 2006-12-12 22:59 ]
 

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I'm still thinking overinflation coupled with uneven sidewall flex...

Another possibility would be bent sprocket studs. That would allow uneven (but rhythmic) thrust variations on the tire tread. If that was the case though, you'd have difficulty adjusting the chain tension and a lot of vibration.


Have you contacted Avon? Perhaps they've come across this problem before.

Jim
 

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The wear is not off center, it is uneven around the circumference. Like it has a flat spot that is wearing more than the rest of the tire.

I'm no expert here but surely this could be a braking problem? If the disc is damaged or warped then braking effort could be focussed on one area of the tyre, causing a flat spot. Certainly happens on the trucks that I am more used to wrenching
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm not getting any vibration during riding/braking etc. The brake rotor does have a slight drag at one point in the rotation when spinning the wheel, but I think this is pretty normal. Whatever condition is causing this wear pattern has been there since I've had the bike. About 12k mi total. It's more of a puzzle than anything.
I'll at least discuss this with Keith at RPM, maybe this weekend. Contacting Avon is also a good idea.

I may start a new post about the tire wear if I learn something new.

Stan
 
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