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Gday campers, I have a 2006 SPEEDMASTER with 20,000 km on the clock. Around 16,000 kilometres I lost all power to my right cylinder. The workshop checked all my electrical components found nothing wrong, however the bike started and ran perfectly for the next 4000 kilometres. The same thing has happened to me again 10 minutes into a country ride. The workshop Mechanic (new guy) thought it might be my ignition coil. He swapped the coils around but the right cylinder still cut out after running the bike for 10 mins. He now suspects the CDI. At $1200 for a CDI I'm hoping he's right the first time. He is going to look around for a second hand one to save a few $$. Has anyone else out there had any problems that are similar? Any advice is more than welcome.

Aussie.
 

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Gday campers, I have a 2006 SPEEDMASTER with 20,000 km on the clock. Around 16,000 kilometres I lost all power to my right cylinder. The workshop checked all my electrical components found nothing wrong, however the bike started and ran perfectly for the next 4000 kilometres. The same thing has happened to me again 10 minutes into a country ride. The workshop Mechanic (new guy) thought it might be my ignition coil. He swapped the coils around but the right cylinder still cut out after running the bike for 10 mins. He now suspects the CDI. At $1200 for a CDI I'm hoping he's right the first time. He is going to look around for a second hand one to save a few $$. Has anyone else out there had any problems that are similar? Any advice is more than welcome.

Aussie.
The 790 engine uses a single ignition pickup coil and relies on computing within the ignitor to offset the firing of the second coil.
Because the ignition events occur at odd intervals, 2 coils are needed. It sounds like you're on a good path to a failed ignitor BUT more can be done to confirm this first. Obviously the failing side works some of the time so it's "likely" that primary wiring to that coil is ok. You mentioned swapping coils and that the same cyl failed.....I assume the original-failed-side coil did not fail while on the opposite cylinder. As it's time related, the culprit is likely heating within the ignitor. A good means of evaluating the situation would be to observe the power supply and switching of the suspect coil with an oscilliscope and look for the pattern to degrade over time and test the associated wiring while wiggling it also while observing the scope. You could add heat to the module with an incandescent trouble light placed on top (or perhaps a hair drier or heat gun on low). This can speed up the time to a failure (you can't rely on it now so it's no big issue). If freeze spray (or a substitute.....ice pack etc) is available, now remove heat (if used) and cool the module to see if it restores switching ok.

This type of troubleshooting, though a little time consuming, can helpo confirm what you likely already know about the ignitor. It doesn't hurt to just look at the area where the ignitor is mounted (under the seat) to make sure that nothing is abnormally blocking any available air flow that can get to the ignitor (maybe for the next unit) AND.......if it was mine I'd pull the plug and look closely at the pins and sockets of the harness connector and ignitor to see whether any heavy tarnish and especially corrosion is evident.....in particular on the coil switching pins. As the instantaneous current can be a few amperes on these pins, any corrosion = resistance and that combo = power dissipated where it shouldn't be (at the pin area which will either fail there.....or be conducted inside the ignitor....over time).

A much quicker method would be to first measure voltages, check pins and try a known-good ignitor - expensive but quicker.
 

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before you go buy a high $ box see if the dealer near you has a bike they can try one off of to see if that works or find one you can use to try it.does the plug on that side fire if you ground it to the motor you can see if it does its not the box. You sure you dont have a vac. leak or carb trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The 790 engine uses a single ignition pickup coil and relies on computing within the ignitor to offset the firing of the second coil.
Because the ignition events occur at odd intervals, 2 coils are needed. It sounds like you're on a good path to a failed ignitor BUT more can be done to confirm this first. Obviously the failing side works some of the time so it's "likely" that primary wiring to that coil is ok. You mentioned swapping coils and that the same cyl failed.....I assume the original-failed-side coil did not fail while on the opposite cylinder. As it's time related, the culprit is likely heating within the ignitor. A good means of evaluating the situation would be to observe the power supply and switching of the suspect coil with an oscilliscope and look for the pattern to degrade over time and test the associated wiring while wiggling it also while observing the scope. You could add heat to the module with an incandescent trouble light placed on top (or perhaps a hair drier or heat gun on low). This can speed up the time to a failure (you can't rely on it now so it's no big issue). If freeze spray (or a substitute.....ice pack etc) is available, now remove heat (if used) and cool the module to see if it restores switching ok.

This type of troubleshooting, though a little time consuming, can helpo confirm what you likely already know about the ignitor. It doesn't hurt to just look at the area where the ignitor is mounted (under the seat) to make sure that nothing is abnormally blocking any available air flow that can get to the ignitor (maybe for the next unit) AND.......if it was mine I'd pull the plug and look closely at the pins and sockets of the harness connector and ignitor to see whether any heavy tarnish and especially corrosion is evident.....in particular on the coil switching pins. As the instantaneous current can be a few amperes on these pins, any corrosion = resistance and that combo = power dissipated where it shouldn't be (at the pin area which will either fail there.....or be conducted inside the ignitor....over time).

A much quicker method would be to first measure voltages, check pins and try a known-good ignitor - expensive but quicker.
SPARKS
Thanks for the speedy reply. Your response has certainly given me further options to follow. I'm going to run it past my mechanic. Will let you know how we go.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
before you go buy a high $ box see if the dealer near you has a bike they can try one off of to see if that works or find one you can use to try it.does the plug on that side fire if you ground it to the motor you can see if it does its not the box. You sure you dont have a vac. leak or carb trouble.
Mike
I never even thought of borrowing one from the dealer; I'll give it a go if SPARKS fault finding methodology doesn't provide a clear answer. Tracking the spark backwards was one of the first things I did. She has no power to the plug, or lead when the right cylinder fails.
 

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Mike
I never even thought of borrowing one from the dealer; I'll give it a go if SPARKS fault finding methodology doesn't provide a clear answer. Tracking the spark backwards was one of the first things I did. She has no power to the plug, or lead when the right cylinder fails.
ok next step take the wires on the coils (the + and - wires) and switch them to the other coil see if it fires then if it does the coil is bad.If not see if you have power on the power wire the other wire sould make and brake ground when motor is turned over.trace wires back make sure there good at the box can use a ohm meter to check the wire.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Question for Sparks.

Sparks the Mech is currently checking the wreckers for a second-hand CDI. I'm still suspecting a loose wire or connection, due to the fact this happened (electrics failed to right cyl) 4000km ago (about 4months back). I did some pretty hard and long rides during that 4000km and with no failure! Surely if the CDI was faulty back then it wouldnt last 4000km. Im very interested on your thoughts on the matter.

Aussie
 

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I am very curious about this. A couple of months back (before global warming kicked in) I was taking a ride in the country and stopped to talk to a farmer for about 20 minutes. When I started the bike it sounded odd, and after a few minutes of investigating I found that the right cylinder was dead. I wiggled plug wires, made no difference. About 12 miles to go home, so I just limped along for 2 or 3 miles and she fired back to life. Got home and looked for loose wiring, found nothing. It never did it again (yet).
 

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Sparks the Mech is currently checking the wreckers for a second-hand CDI. I'm still suspecting a loose wire or connection, due to the fact this happened (electrics failed to right cyl) 4000km ago (about 4months back). I did some pretty hard and long rides during that 4000km and with no failure! Surely if the CDI was faulty back then it wouldnt last 4000km. Im very interested on your thoughts on the matter.

Aussie
Howdy Aussie. I can't fault your line of thinking there. One of the hardest situations to troubleshoot is an intermittent failure that may not be consistent. You might try running the bike a fair bit and then remove the seat, restart and feel for heat at connectors or within associated connectors (+ and - to that RH affected coil). Wiggling the same wiring and associated connections and even gently deflecting the harness and associated plug to the ignition module may turn up an intermittent connection. I'd recommend at the least, travelling with a good 12 volt incandescent (something that requires a few hundred mA) test light. Upon failure of one cylinder, immediately test for +12 at the affected coil supply side AND TEST to see that A) +12v (approx) is seen at the negative side of the coil AND that, while cranking the light turns on and off indicating that the module is switching........IF NO +12 at the pos side, troubleshoot where this failed......IF NO +12 (nominal) at the negative side is seen (coil primary ok) then you MAY have an open coil. If the light is on dimly and doesn't appear to be switched when probing the negative side of the affected coil, then the module may be pulling the line to near ground with no switching taking place (defective module). IF you see near +12v with no switching on the negative side of the coil then you are looking at either A) a failed-open switching circuit within the module or B) an open circuit TO the module (pin/wire etc).
IF you see +12v approx on the negative side of the coil (always assumed to measure with respect to chassis or ground) AND the light turns on and off with engine revolution then the module might be ok (is switching) BUT the coil itself OR THE PLUG WIRE OR PLUG associated may have opened or become unable to fire.

Hope this helps or at least.......doesn't hinder your efforts :)


Gord
 

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Sparks

Sparks, Many thanks for the fault finding info. I'm off to see the Mech again! Once we determine the cause I will post the results.

Magiificent sunny days here in Country Queensland Australia (Hervey Bay); and I'm stuck in the house!! :(
 

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Cdi Rip

Theres good news and bad news! First the good: I got my bike back today, and it's fixed! after lots of testing , and fault finding the mech and I agreed .. it had to be the CDI/ICU. None of my mates have speedmaster, or America's so I couldn't borrow a CDI from them. The local Triumph dealer was in the same boat as me .. once they had procured it they owned it which meant I owned it (CDI). In the end I told my Mech to just order it. It came all the way from GB, and it worked! Just to double check it was the CDI my mech reconnected the old CDI and yes it cut electrical power to the right cyl again. I took her for a spin this afternoon (30km) and she's running quite well. I'm off for a 200km trip tomorrow and a 650km trip on Monday, wish me luck. The bad news: total cost, parts and labour $1500.00 ($1300 for the cdi). I was planning on upgrading to the new 1600cc Thunderbird when it hit the showroom, but to tell you the truth this whole experience has put me off Triumphs. I'm changing brands come June..think I'll try the HD FLHR. I'd like to thank everyone for taking time out to respond to my request for help and for all the tips. THANKS .. stay upright.
 

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unless i have this mixed up, the CDI referred to in this thread is the same item as the igniter box?

if so why would the cost to replace be $1300? bike bandit has it list for $606. even with exchange rates and shipping that is a pretty big difference.

pricey part no matter how you slice though.
 

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$1300!? :eek: What Mag10 said. BikeBandit charges full list price. I'd go back to the dealer and ask for a refund of the difference.

And the labor consists of unplugging the old one and plugging in the new one, maybe a screw or two.
 

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Pricey

Your right there Mag it is the ignitor box. I just checked the conversion rate, It should have come it at just under a $1000. I'll question my Mech about this one.

Cheers

PS: Wish I knew about the bike bandit web site sooner:mad:.
 

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Labour cost

Balto, The labour cost come from having my bike in the W/shop for the past 5 weeks - with lots of fault finding taking place.
 

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Sorry, I thought that you were in the US. That was an expensive repair, too bad you couldn't get one second-hand.
 

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Glad you got Speedy fixed!

Just a couple of comments:
1. CDI (capacitive Discharge Ignition) is NOT the correct descriptor for any part of the Speedy ignition.
2. SPARKSS, you may want to go back to your first post and completely erase your first sentence--I couldn't find anything correct in that sentence.
 

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Cdi

Suckmydust:

Been following your experience. I'm in Hervey Bay, Pialba, too just moved here and have just started to have a very similar problem with my right cylinder on my 2004 Speedmaster.

The thing is it wont even start on two cylinders now just the left. Have changed the coils over and the left still works not the right. My problems started after filling up at the Shell on Main St, took off for a spin and got half way to Bundy and the right cylinder dropped. Turn around and then 5kms later it fired back up and went fine. I got my next tank at the same Shell , same bowser and 100kms into the tank same thing happened right cylinder dropped. Emptied out the carby and let it cool and it fired on both. But now this morning only starts on left cylinder.

Do I even bother cleaning the carby to see if the jets are blocked?


Do you still have your SpeedMaster or have you changed it?
 

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filosoph

filosoph, what are the odds that we both live in Hervey Bay and have both experienced the same problem with the speedy. Mine was perchased from Sunstate Motorcycles, Maroochydore. I normally get my fuel from the caltex in BH Drive and use the good stuff (Vortex 98). I picked up some bad fuel once oin Burrum heads at the BP (95 rating). Drained all the fuel and fuel bowls on both carbs. Sghe ran fine after that. The electrical power loss to the right cyl happened at 16000k.. they found nothing put her back together and she ran fine for the next 4000k. At 20000 she lost elec pwr again to the right cylinder. I took her to trhe dyno place in BH Drive. Several weeks of fault finding. She would run great for 10 mins when she was cold, but then loose the right cyl again. Ended up getting a new computer CDI Lots of $$$($1500) I should have got the part from America as it was cheaper. Once back on the road she start to backfire on deceleration ..never use to before. I pick her up with modified original pipes (slashed at the back). Maybe that caused it, maybe the computer doesnt like our weather, who knows. I traded my speed in on a 2009 HD Roadking up at Bundy .. lots of fun, lots of riding. Good liuck with your speedy dude
 

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bit by bit

Hi there suckmydust

I went for a ride with you up to Bundy recently.

I pulled the main jet out but couldn't seem to find a way to pull out the pilot jet as the mech at that dyno suggested. I'll go back and ask him today. Still no go though on the right pot. The left cylinder fires and runs well. Have swapped around around the leads and coils at the top and the left still went well but the right exhaust didn't get hot ruling out the leads and coils as the problem. Also put a new plug in the right pot but to no avail. Getting close to ruling everything out leaving the ignitor left. Yeah I saw the Bikebandit selling them for aroun $700USD and a no brainer to put it on.

Did your run on left pot only?

I fully understand leaving a sour taste. You buy these bikes to ride to to mest about with the reasons why they don't work.
 
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