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When I drive my Vette, I can smoothly be hard on the brakes, blip throttle and down shift w/o upsetting the car.

How the heck do you do it on a bike?

If I am under heavy braking, front brake squeezed, how do I get a throttle blip in? Do you have to let go of the throttle?

I've tried to figure it out by four fingers on brake, thumb only to blip throttle, but it doesn't seem safe.

Can someone explain the skill in explicit detail so I can try to learn it?
 

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Try using two fingers on brake (index and middle). Fronts brakes are so good on bikes these days that 2 fingers is really all required. This technique leaves ring and little finger to help your thumb blip the throttle. A little practice and it's easy!!
 

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Would you want to be downshifting whilst under heavy braking ? I would suggest concentrating on the heavy braking and then when you are coming out of it then downshift. In my opinion there is no need to downshift whilst heavy braking with the clutch in until you need to downshift then you can blip normally and change. Downshifting after that you can either engine brake if you still want to slow down further or accelerate if you want to speed up.


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Ride on ! :)
 

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Or downshift first, and get the benefit of the engine braking added to the disk and pads braking.

But with some practice, you should be able to do both at once. If you can't, perhaps the bar is too far from the grip.
 

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Would you want to be downshifting whilst under heavy braking ? ....................... Downshifting after that you can either engine brake if you still want to slow down further or accelerate if you want to speed up.


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Ride on ! :)
In many cornering situtations, downshifting is part of my heavy braking strategy. Why not take advantage of the smooth and excellent 4 stroke engine braking, blipping the throttle to mesh engine speed with the rear wheel. Since about 70% of the braking power is in the front end, engine braking works very well with the front brakes in most instances. I sometimes blip/downshift while using the rear brake too as need be. Can't have enough tools in your riding arsenal in my opinion. :cool:
 

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Make sure your timing between clutch and throttle are right on, otherwise it won’t be affective and you’ll lurch forward.

Find an empty parking lot or a backstreet and practice high speed braking; trust me once you get the correct combination and timing down between clutch, downshifting, brake, and throttle you’ll do it without even thinking.
 

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In many cornering situtations, downshifting is part of my heavy braking strategy.

May be some confusion in what defines heavy braking, to me heavy braking is all anchors on and stopping in the shortest distance.

If you are engine braking at the same time as heavy braking you will have the clutch out and the transmission is still propelling the bike forward, albeit engine braking but nevertheless continuing to move forward under power. Engine braking is good for slowing the bike down when you do not need to stop.

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May be some confusion in what defines heavy braking, to me heavy braking is all anchors on and stopping in the shortest distance.
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Ride on ! :)
I think they are talking track day apex type riding not emergency traffic stops.;)
 

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It's important to be in the correct gear at all times to have optimum throttle control & good response to change lines or speed quickly. Good mid-range torque, typical of Triumphs, really helps here :)

So changing down quickly, blipping the throttle to match rpm & road speed is what's needed when breaking. Heavy braking just means the technique has to be accomplished a bit faster & with more downshifts. Typical scenario, as other posts have mentioned, is approaching a bend at speed.

With a bit of practice it's possible to be pulling hard with four fingers on the brake lever & rock the throttle back with the palm of the hand as required. Some modern bikes (& race bikes) have 'two finger' brakes making throttle control whilst braking easier. No such luxury on the classic triples & twins...:D

Controlling the throttle with just the palm (thumb placement can sometimes help too) in this way is handy in another situation. That is when approaching a 'hazard' - say, for example a dozy looking cager waiting to pull out - you can 'cover' the front brake lever whilst keeping the throttle steady. Covering the front brake this way (& clutch as well of course) can save vital time (distance!) if an emergency stop becomes neccesary. (You're already covering the rear brake, as you should be anyway, right ;))

A good practice techique is to go up & down say 3 gears whilst keeping a constant road speed (most bikes have close enough ratios for this) & four fingers covering the front brake. Keeps the skills sharp to be prepared (& in the right gear) for any situation.
 

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In many cornering situtations, downshifting is part of my heavy braking strategy. Why not take advantage of the smooth and excellent 4 stroke engine braking, blipping the throttle to mesh engine speed with the rear wheel. Since about 70% of the braking power is in the front end, engine braking works very well with the front brakes in most instances. I sometimes blip/downshift while using the rear brake too as need be. Can't have enough tools in your riding arsenal in my opinion. :cool:
I agree with this. I do it a different way. I think you can engine break with some smooth throttle blips, then when you are back on the gear bring in the brakes for even more help. So I'm generally not braking while downshifting at the same moment. Really, a "blipped" downshift is meant to settle the suspension, so if you do it right you can brake, accelerate, whatever you need, afterwards as the bike is smooth and controllable.
 

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Bad Idea

Sorry gentleman, this is going to be a little long.

The first thing is, gear selection on approach is one of the most important factors of making it quickly through a turn. If you select the proper gear minimal braking is required and most times not at all. If you have to brake hard coming into a turn your most likely to over shoot, as it's damn hard to lay the bike over quickly with all the weight on the front tire. If you know how to, trail braking can generally get you deeper into the apex of the turn by squaring the bike then applying allot of power on exit. It's not conducive to rear tire longevity but can increase your approach speeds. Engine braking is a definite need when approaching a turn quickly. Going fast around a turn has very little to do with straight line speed. There is no need trying to use the front brake while blipping the throttle. It's an advanced technique that requires the use of your thumb. Exaggerated movement of the palm will cause you to over brake.

You can't equate doing it in a car with trying doing it on a motorcycle. You don't want to apply allot of brake in the apex of a turn either. Your choice if you do, the front tire sliding away, or high side, neither are very good on the body. You'd be better off confining your efforts to learning how to judge approach speeds and when to use the engine as a breaking force, ie., downshifting. Your attention needs to be on the road not on your hand placement, or blipping the throttle while on the break. If you do, I can guarantee that you'll go slower around the corner and unsettle the bike. Cornering speed comes from a fluid transition from high speed, bike position prior to entering the corner, controlled braking, engine braking, body movement, maintaining momentum and exit speed. That's enough to try to learn well. If you do then you be miles ahead of anyone else.

Learn the basics before you try to adopt more advanced techniques. Knowing how, comes from experience under controlled conditions on a track, not on the road where your mistakes can cause others and yourself possible injury.

All this said, you can understand it better by reading the basics first. Pickup Keith Codes Books: A Twist of the Wrist / The Soft Science of Road Racing Motorcycles or How To Develop Real World Skills for Speed, Safety, and Confidence on the Street and Track by Nick Ienatsch and Kenny Roberts. This will explain allot of the techniques. ;) Be safe!

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8pnaRpDU1A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTMwWtlSWIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asou3VN_iQI
 

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The way I learned it you NEVER take you fingers completely off the levers. Of course, that was on a dirtbike.

Still ride that way, 2, 2, and 2 Two for the throttle, two for the brake, 2 for the clutch. I have shorties because I never need more. Same with my Ex-GFs Ultra-Classic, and her Sportsters, and my old Shovelhead, and my 68 Bonnie...basically every bike I've ever owned or ridden,

Anyway back on track. You should be rev-matching. It's a learned thing and it's trickier in the lower gears then once you are up to speed. I can do 4th--->2nd and get it without rocking the suspension, but I have 7 years and 90,000 or so miles on it. It's just something you have to learn on your bike.
 

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Try using two fingers on brake (index and middle). Fronts brakes are so good on bikes these days that 2 fingers is really all required. This technique leaves ring and little finger to help your thumb blip the throttle. A little practice and it's easy!!

I find it's a lot easier to do in a car, however the new 370z's computer does it for you...

http://jalopnik.com/5114318/nissan-...hift-tech-turns-average-joe-into-super-driver

This would be useful tech for bikes, (but I'll bet the Asian bikes get it first)
 

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I do it by blipping the throttle with the palm of my hand while my fingers are on the brake. I've tried using 2 fingers on the brake and using 2 fingers to blip the throttle, but I can't seem to do that very well. If I stop with 2 fingers on the throttle, I tend to give it some gas when I don't want to, and that could be dangerous.

Actually, I'm not a hard rider and don't do much heavy braking. Often, engine braking is sufficient and when it isn't, I generally need to apply the brakes only lightly.
 

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This would be useful tech for bikes, (but I'll bet the Asian bikes get it first)

That could be argued. Much the same as a slipper clutch, ABS, traction control and such are simply a band-aid for poor riding skills. You don't need a slipper at all if you have good throttle control, nor traction control, ABS I could see for pucker moments, but it's certainly not required, NOR do I need electronics shifting for me. I'm perfectly capable of shifting the bike up and down smoothly. I don't WANT the bike trying to make any sort of input descisions for me.
 

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........... I don't WANT the bike trying to make any sort of input decisions for me.

I think I would go along with that, I've been riding seat of the pants for so long that I want to be part of the bike.

Maybe all those riding aids are good for Goldwing type bikes, they will handle the bike for you when you're attending to the coffee percolator.


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Ride on ! :)
 

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That could be argued. Much the same as a slipper clutch, ABS, traction control and such are simply a band-aid for poor riding skills. You don't need a slipper at all if you have good throttle control, nor traction control, ABS I could see for pucker moments, but it's certainly not required, NOR do I need electronics shifting for me. I'm perfectly capable of shifting the bike up and down smoothly. I don't WANT the bike trying to make any sort of input descisions for me.
I see ABS as an extremely important safety item for street riders.

Traction is sometimes unpredictable. Although a good street rider will rarely have to make an emergency stop (it shouldn't occur more than once every few years), it is possible to hit a wet spot, a bit of loose sand, or something else on the pavement that will reduce traction and cause a brake to lock. If the front brakes locks for more than a fraction of a second, the bike will probably go down. The ABS computer can react far faster to such situations than even the most skilled rider can.

Even if one is not making an emergency stop, traction can unexpectedly be reduced to the degree that a brake will lock even during a normal moderate stop. In that case, ABS can prevent a crash.

It has been found that motorcycle accidents sometimes occur because the rider has not applied the front brake hard enough, often because of fear of locking the front brakes. ABS can provide the rider with the confidence required to brake harder, thereby preventing an accident.

Some riders believe that their skill level is so great that ABS would provide no advantages for them. There may be a few fortunate mutants with that degree of skill, but most riders, regardless of how diligently they practice braking, could never become that skillful. Also, practicing fast stops under various conditions is not risk free either.

It may be that ABS would not be appropriate for racing. But generally, racers are more highly skilled than street riders and they ride under controlled conditions in which traction is more predictable.

I have ABS on both of my bikes and on my car. I could do without it on the car, but I see it as an essential safety item on my motorcycles.
 

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You make a good point there FRE and are probably correct. I believe riders should make a choice which way they want to go with these aids.

For myself I'll stay without ABS. Although I do have it on my cars but they came like that ! For my CB1300 I chose at the time of purchase not to have it.


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I see ABS as an extremely important safety item for street riders.
Ok, I'm with you on some of this some I'm not so here goes.

Traction is sometimes unpredictable. Although a good street rider will rarely have to make an emergency stop (it shouldn't occur more than once every few years), it is possible to hit a wet spot, a bit of loose sand, or something else on the pavement that will reduce traction and cause a brake to lock. If the front brakes locks for more than a fraction of a second, the bike will probably go down. The ABS computer can react far faster to such situations than even the most skilled rider can.
Yes traction is unpredictable. That is why you are supposed to ride with different safety margins on the street and the track. I've locked the front tire numerous times and never went down from it at speed, it's generally slow stuff that bites you here. I've tossed myself in sand once or twice, but it was at very low speeds usually under 15mph

Even if one is not making an emergency stop, traction can unexpectedly be reduced to the degree that a brake will lock even during a normal moderate stop. In that case, ABS can prevent a crash.
No way not always. In both my around town and more adventurous rides, I've NEVER been so far on the edge of the bike's performance envelope that I've locked the front up without something seriously spooking me. The rear of course is another matter, but then again the bike sqirming around a little never really scared me and certainly has caused a get off. If you miss something that could affect traction to the degree of washing the front out, then thats the issue, you missed it, these events don't happen in a vaccuum. Short of encountering a patch of transmission fluid in the road (which I have) at night (yup) and I still managed to get the bike back under control and stopped safely, in the grass mind you, but I didn't drop it.

It has been found that motorcycle accidents sometimes occur because the rider has not applied the front brake hard enough, often because of fear of locking the front brakes. ABS can provide the rider with the confidence required to brake harder, thereby preventing an accident.
Electronics should never be a substitute for poor riding skills. What happens if a wheel sensor goes out (this happens) and the rider is still storming all over the front brake without regaurd for conditions on the road? It's about as likely as the invisible traction loss in the paragraph above.

Some riders believe that their skill level is so great that ABS would provide no advantages for them. There may be a few fortunate mutants with that degree of skill, but most riders, regardless of how diligently they practice braking, could never become that skillful. Also, practicing fast stops under various conditions is not risk free either.
I never said no benefit or advantage. Certainly there is an obvious advantage with the ever changing conditions of street riding. But it is by no means a nessesity, never has been, and unless mandated never will be. While it WOULD be nice, but I'm not willing to pay for it, by virtue that I've done just fine for 22 years without.


It may be that ABS would not be appropriate for racing. But generally, racers are more highly skilled than street riders and they ride under controlled conditions in which traction is more predictable.
I'd think generally that it would at least begin showing on the rear brakes of some of the higher end track oreinted machines, but it hasn't. This strikes me as counter intuitive, but that just me. I'd rather be ensured that my back end is where I want it then have a slipper clutch. But again thats just me. Traction on the track varies pretty wildly to, the condition and temperature of your tire and the surface itself will throw a serious monkey wrench in what you think you can get away with, but these issue usually present themselves under throttle, much more then under braking. The big difference being that a dedicated racer is NEVER going to fear the front brake and generally is "bobbing" the back wheel while under hard braking anyway.

I have ABS on both of my bikes and on my car. I could do without it on the car, but I see it as an essential safety item on my motorcycles.

I veiw it exactly the other way. I've ridden in most very heavy metro traffic for the last decade and still never had random braking related get offs. This includes Honolulu, Chicago and Philadelphia, commuting during rush hours and all. I can't imagine much worse conditions then Honolulu and Chicago, the rush hours are hideous in both.
 
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