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Discussion Starter #1
Now, I don't know if this is restricted just to London, but I really needed to vent about scooters and drivers in a Toyota Prius.

Let's start with the easy one. Drivers of Toyota Prius' are always SO. DAMN. SLOW. I know it can be frustrating being on a bike stuck behind a slow moving vehicle (car/bus/lorry/whatever). And normally, I am extremely patient. But there's something about Prius drivers that just gets to me. It's not that they always drive 5-10mph below the speed limit (although that is part of my issue with them). It's that they are always so cautious too. They slow down for every tiny little thing: speed bumps, potholes, wet newspaper. Grrrr! And, I swear to god that they know exactly what they're doing as they always seem to position the car far enough over that a motorcycle won't have room to pass. Most other drivers will move a little to the left when they spot you in the side mirrors. But Prius drivers always seem to move to the right. Purely for sh*ts and giggles. Fortunately, even though this is London, the road will eventually present a spot where bikers can overtake before the frustrations oozes out of them.

But, as much as I hate Prius drivers, they are nothing to the idiot (majority) one scooters. These people are giving bikers everywhere a bad name. Just because we are both on two wheels does not mean we are the same. Now, i know this will be a vast generalisation and it may be unfair of me to clump everyone into the same bracket. But, this is not a case of a minority few making the other look bad. There are a minority of scooter riders who actually respect the rules of the road, who don't take unnecessary risks in traffic and who generally not act like a d*ck when they are out on the road (usually female riders who are commuting to/from work as a quick cheap alternative to public transport or driving as parking is a nightmare in London).

No, this rant is at the assh*ts who will zoom past you at 50mph in a 20mph zone, so close that you can smell the buckets of Joop aftershave they have bathed in, weaving in an out of rush hour traffic, barely avoiding having their wheels clipped by trucks or buses. Typically they are delivery riders or off duty delivery riders out to prove their manhood by pulling away quicker at traffic lights than a biker on a more powerful machine. I would posit, if you need to prove how large your manhood is in this way, then your manhood is obviously not that big to begin with.

Case in point, this very evening I was enjoying ride home from work as usual. Going 2 or 3 mph over the limit, but being mindful of the traffic around me and for absent-minded pedestrians walking out into the road with an obvious blindspot for two wheeled machines. I see some traffic lights ahead of me just turn red, so I being to brake, slowly filter on the outside of the queued cars to get to the front. 10 secs later, a d*ckhead on a scooter almost crashes into the back of me. Despite it being a red light, with a row of cars queued up, he still approached at least 30 mph. Maybe he was expecting the lights to turn green. When he realised they wouldn't he hit his brakes and swerved to get in front of the lead car, only noticing me at the last minute and swerving again to avoid hitting Penny (my bike).

After doing the ubiquitous multiple checks of his mobile phone, the lights turn green and we pull away. He is only on a 125cc scooter but clearly wants to race. I, however, am above such things, so I let him do what he wants and he is soon way ahead of me, continually swerving in and out of traffic like a man possessed. I hear a screech of brakes as he is forced to stop at another stop of traffic lights. 10 secs later I pull up alongside him.

Once again, out comes the mobile phone, and I can hear him having a conversation with someone. He is so engrossed in that though that he doesn't notice the lights turns green. I pull away (still obeying the 30mph speed limit, especially cos this route has speed cameras) and pull up down the road at another set of lights. I see in my mirror him speeding to pull up alongside me again. This time, he is focussed. He is ready. The light goes yellow and he zooms away. Green lights are obviously for the rest of us.

Another set of lights and a few seconds later, I am alongside him again. From the corner of my eyeI can see him looking at me as he repositions his scooter to get a better line round the bend. It's at this point I should mention that today has been quite wet in London. We had wet snow fall this morning (more slush than snow) but some parts of the road are still damp.

Anyway, the lights turn yellow and away he goes, cutting me off. Fortunately, I anticipated this, so I hadn't moved. As I do begin to move off, I see him undercut some cars and then have to swerve to avoid a bus that was signalling that it was pulling away from a bus stop. He is now a little unbalanced and not fully in control, especially going around another bend in the road over some painted lines. The wheels go from underneath him and he and scooter slide very dramatically across the road. The scooter hits the kerb first and he, unable to stop his momentum, collides into the downed scooter a few seconds later.

All the traffic stops. But not me. I slow down and navigate my way through the unmoving vehicles to continue my journey. The rider is obviously in pain and I can see him clutching a bloodied hand (because he was too cool to wear clunky protective motorcycle gloves. He's fine wearing a pair of fingerless gym gloves). Some drivers who have exited their vehicles are shouting at him and he is cursing back, trying to make out this incident is their fault. I briefly catch his eye as I crawl past at 5mph. But then I'm gone, onto my ultimate destination (local shops then home), safe, warm and accident free.

I would have stopped to see if he was alright, but if you're gonna act like an ass, then that's what you get.

My issue is, that for our 4 wheeled brethren who we share the road with, they assume that anyone of two wheels will act as dangerously as this guy did. However, in the two and a bit years I've been riding, inside London, it is only scooter riders who act this way. Actually bikers, ok, we may go a tad fast at times, but only when there is space to do so. We may filter in traffic, but again, only when it's safe to do so, and always at low speeds. It really annoys me the uninitiated, we are all clumped together, when we are clearly not the same.

Anyway, rant over. Thanks for reading and feel free to share your own stories below.
 

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At least you're letting off steam in a relatively safe environment ( here ) . Many years ago I had a Yamaha YSR 80 , tiny little thing but very nimble and surprisingly quick . In stationary traffic if a car pulled up to bollard or vehicle coming the other way to impede my progress , I could left hand on the bar right hand under the seat fairing , stand up turn left ride across the rear turn right pass on the inside pull back out in front of them . And with a merry little wave I was on my way .:sneaky:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
At least you're letting off steam in a relatively safe environment ( here ).
Oh, I never ride angry. That way leads explosions and fireballs.

Many years ago I had a Yamaha YSR 80 , tiny little thing but very nimble and surprisingly quick . In stationary traffic if a car pulled up to bollard or vehicle coming the other way to impede my progress , I could left hand on the bar right hand under the seat fairing , stand up turn left ride across the rear turn right pass on the inside pull back out in front of them . And with a merry little wave I was on my way .:sneaky:
I have to say, that is the only advantage my old 125cc has over Penny. It was much much lighter and therefore much easier to navigate through traffic to cut up the inside of any driver who was purposely trying to stop me overtaking. That being said, Penny is very nimble and manoeuvrable in traffic. Just not as much as my 125cc.
 

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Two groups; two stereotypes. I've put a lot of miles on both vehicle types, but I've never been part of either stereotype. I'm on three PTW forums: each one seems to focus on a different aspect of why and what I ride. ADVrider: dualsport and adventure, here: Triumph-specific, and Modern Vespa: my scooter go-to. I think I could safely say that at least the majority of the membership on the Vespa forum despise the type of scooter rider you described just as much as you do. It's basically the scooter version of a "squid." Makes me wonder if at least a portion of the bike messenger community converted from bicycles to scooters. Also, from what you said, it sounds like none of them are new to it and haven't bothered to work on skills...assuming they're even licensed.
Typically they are delivery riders or off duty delivery riders
I think this is probably more accurate than them being on a scooter. I could be wrong, since I don't have first hand of large city commuting nor UK riding.

For Prius drivers, sounds like the hyper-mileage crowd. In hybrids, if you keep your acceleration under a certain point up to about 30-35 mph, you can drive entirely via the electric portion of the engine. It sounds like they're focusing on how long they can avoid the ICE side from kicking in. There's a lot of things I like about the Prius...but the touchscreen dash and the fact that it displays fuel usage in realtime right up there top-middle has always irked me. I think it encourages people to see how high they can get that fuel economy number, even if they aren't a hyper-miler. It's maddening to get stuck in the vicinity of one of those drivers.

I think it's more that the squid-messenger and hyper-miler tend to be gravitating towards those vehicle choices...which, I agree, is infuriating. I'm not trying to tell you to quit ranting, I'd just like to ask that you give an unknown driver the benefit of the doubt before reacting as though they're one of those two categories.
Or don't...either way. Swap Priuses and scooters with pickup trucks/SUVs and Harleys and you get my daily rant from a different angle. I only ask because I've been on the other side of this coin and targeted by road rage from others' driving that had nothing to do with me or how I drive/ride.

Either way, may you encounter as few of them as possible. 🍻
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think it's more that the squid-messenger and hyper-miler tend to be gravitating towards those vehicle choices...which, I agree, is infuriating. I'm not trying to tell you to quit ranting, I'd just like to ask that you give an unknown driver the benefit of the doubt before reacting as though they're one of those two categories.
Or don't...either way. Swap Priuses and scooters with pickup trucks/SUVs and Harleys and you get my daily rant from a different angle. I only ask because I've been on the other side of this coin and targeted by road rage from others' driving that had nothing to do with me or how I drive/ride.
Oh, I know my rant was a massive over-generalisation. With the Prius drivers, my issue isn't so much them going slowly, more the fact they always tend to be go 15-20mph on a 30mph road and then purposely position the car to not allow anyone to overtake.

As for scooters, I should have been clearer. The commuters on Vespas and similar machines are cool. It's the ones on the Honda Forza type that are the ones I was venting about.

But, after a steak n ale pie and ice-cold Guiness, I am totally at ease. Fortunately I don't dwell on negative things for too long (it's bad for the skin!)
 

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In the US we only have two states that filtering is legal, CA and UT, I'm no where near either of those so I never see anyone filter. I also dont see a lot of scooters on the road, not even sure what the law is regarding them. You live in a heavily populated city/area, all the things you mentioned seam to go hand in hand with heavy population. I live in a state that has about 1/3 the population as the city you live in and I very rarely drive in the city, and if I do its a city of at most 135,000 people. I used to live in Austin Tx and I dont know that I would have spent much time on a bike there, cant stand to be in congested traffic on a bike. You guys use motorcycles more for everyday transportation then we do here so you see all the bad stuff that goes with everyday riding.
 

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You need to chill out mate. Let's see now, what's in the garage at the moment. There's a 955i Daytona, a 1050 Speed Triple, a KTM 1290 Super Duke GT, oh and a Vespa PX200. Yes I'm a scooter rider, there I've said it, I've outed myself.

Perhaps you'd like to join us in Sydney City Scooter Club. we're a friendly bunch. Here's one of our promo brochures.

jokescsc.jpg
 

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Wow. You’ve got some serious issues going on there. I have the impression that in this particular case, it’s definitely you. Everyone else is fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

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I live and drive in the Southern California area. If you ride a scooter or bicycle here, you have death wish. Seriously crazy traffic here. I won't go out on the street on anything smaller than a 500. You do not see many scooters here. You DO however see bicycles in places where it is crazy. Thier mantra is "share the road". Legally, they have the right to ride there. Fact is, it is a quick way to die. Just the way it is here. ...J.D.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
well you and the cat lady!
And all the people I work with who talk about it with me (because I ride and they drive) 😁.

And various Facebook friends who also live in London😁

As I did say though, my vent was aimed at the type of guys mentioned in that article, no the general everyday commuter. Was that not clear?

Also, am I the only one to ever get annoyed by things they've seen while riding and needed to vent? Is it more noticeable to me because I'm still fairly new to riding in comparison to many others on this site?
 

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It's only human nature to vent; get it out of your system, learn from it and ride another day. We can determine our mindset (hopefully positive), stay focused, ride well/safely despite all the dangers or irritants. Riding in a heavily populated urban area is very challenging and requires exceptional focus and quick deliberation. In my case, there is a huge difference riding in the crowded, hilly, narrow inner city streets of San Francisco than the luxuriously wide, relatively sparse, suburban-like roads of San Diego; San Diego is so much easier and safer (but does not negate the need to continuously improve our riding skills).
I think you have a point of being a newer rider. You are noticing these bad behaviors from a newer, more exposed, perspective of a motorcyclist; you're pretty sensitive. With time, it might feel less annoying as you put on more miles and just acknowledge the irritant without the strong reaction. You want to ride on your own terms, it helps dropping the negative baggage; be safe and enjoy the ride.
 

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I went on holiday last year to Jersey, Channel Islands, unfortunatley in the car but over there the scooter riders are nuts. The roads are very narrow, nearly losing wing mirrors at times, and they still insist on filtering and cutting you up to take a turn. Surprised I didn't see more of them lying in the road. I also tried to hire a motorbike but all you could hire where scooters. There is also a max speed limit of 40mph on the island but apparently not for scooters.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I think you have a point of being a newer rider. You are noticing these bad behaviors from a newer, more exposed, perspective of a motorcyclist; you're pretty sensitive.
Is it weird that I noticed these things when I was on my 125cc and they annoyed me then?

With time, it might feel less annoying as you put on more miles and just acknowledge the irritant without the strong reaction.
They annoyed me the two years I was riding my 125cc, and they still annoy me now. Maybe that will stop once I get to the end of my third year.

You want to ride on your own terms, it helps dropping the negative baggage; be safe and enjoy the ride.
I should point out that while I notice it while I'm on the road, I don't let it affect how I ride (case in point, the scooter guy trying to race me, but me not succumbing). The annoyance only kicks in once I've reached my destination. Much better to let it get to me then than when I'm out on the road. And much better to vent and get it out of my system before I jump on Penny again and go for another ride.
 

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Also, am I the only one to ever get annoyed by things they've seen while riding and needed to vent? Is it more noticeable to me because I'm still fairly new to riding in comparison to many others on this site?
I think as a rider you tend to become more aware of the other fools on the road and notice a lot more stupidity, more so than driving a car anyway. I haven't ridden around London for many years now, but I think in order to do so you need to have some sort of death wish.

Down here in Bournemouth we don't get so much of a problem with commuters on scooters, that almost rhymes!, it's more young kids on scooters hammering around trying to kill themselves, but I just find that amusing.
I personally don't have an issue with Prius drivers either, I'm not a full on greeny but I'm actually looking forward to seeing more electric cars on the road, what winds me up is people in diesel cars and vans that decide to give it some away from the lights when you've got your visor open so you get a face full of that lovely dirty diesel smoke.

For what it's worth you're not the only one that needs to have a bit of a whinge now and then, I commute on my bike and every time I see some idiot doing something stupid.

P.S I will just add, when I'm referring to 'Scooters' I'm not talking about the old school Lambrettas or Vespa's, I'm referring to those plastic Chinese things or Peugeot whatever they're called jobbies. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Down here in Bournemouth we don't get so much of a problem with commuters on scooters, that almost rhymes!, it's more young kids on scooters hammering around trying to kill themselves, but I just find that amusing.

P.S I will just add, when I'm referring to 'Scooters' I'm not talking about the old school Lambrettas or Vespa's, I'm referring to those plastic Chinese things or Peugeot whatever they're called jobbies. (y)
Yeah, it's as I said. In London, it's less the commuters and more the young kid/takeaway delivery riders on a Forza or some such machine.

As someone else mentioned, I'm surprised there aren't more crashes. Although, I have noticed a lot of have damage, so collisions probably happen quite frequently.
 

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As someone else mentioned, I'm surprised there aren't more crashes. Although, I have noticed a lot of have damage, so collisions probably happen quite frequently.
I imagine it's getting a bit like Thailand on the roads in London these days, everyone for themselves and sod the rest of us. I expect most of the damage to there bikes is when they come off due to riding like twats.
 
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