[Misti Hurst]

One of the most common errors we see at the California Superbike School with our students riding on track is adding lean angle and throttle at the same time. Why is this a bad thing? How do you ensure that you aren't adding both lean angle and throttle at the same time?

 

[CanberraR3]

I confess that I checked the date of your post. Either you’re a day late or the answer is self evident.

 

[Misti Hurst]

I confess that I checked the date of your post. Either you’re a day late or the answer is self evident.

Don't really understand what you're saying here? Just trying to start a conversation about one of the more common riding errors we see with our students at the California Superbike School in hopes that it can help other riders become better and safer....

 

[CanberraR3]

Apologies. That was a bit flippant. I guess I can’t really see what the problem is. First up I’m often leaning and accelerating at the same time; not all the tome obviously, but it does happen. It’s something you do when circumstance require it so I don’t see it as an error as long as it’s controlled. Secondly, I would have thought the best way to stop doing any two things at the same time is to do them separately. Sorry if that also sounds flippant but I really don’t know what else to say. Advise your students to hold the throttle steady in that situation perhaps.

 

[ranger995]

She specifically said ADDING lean angle and accelerating at the same time. Anyone who takes the time to learn about traction knows that both actions are using it up and there is only a limited amount. So, if you are leaned, you can accelerate and pull yourself out of the turn, but you should NOT lean further and accelerate at the same time. It will cause your rear tire to give out and then if you let off the gas, you'll high side. It's better to slowly decelerate if you are at a steep lean angle and reset your line before accelerating (if you are running wide).

Now, If you are going slow and not leaned over at all. You can lean and accelerate at the same time, and you won't crash, because you are not near the limits of traction. That is bad practice, however, as it will cause a crash at higher speeds. So lean while maintaining throttle and accelerate as you stand the bike up coming out of a corner.

I honestly think that trail braking helps prevent this. Because it makes you think of slowing down while setting your lean angle and only speeding up after the it is set and you are facing the exit. Slow in -- fast out.

 

[ranger995]

OT:

Misti?

Are you the riding coach that is in Twist of the Wrist II video, showing the kids how to ride?

If so, awesome. It's cool that you post here. I look forward to learning some good stuff from you.

 

[Misti Hurst]

OT:

Misti?

Are you the riding coach that is in Twist of the Wrist II video, showing the kids how to ride?

If so, awesome. It's cool that you post here. I look forward to learning some good stuff from you.

That's me! Hahaha. I've been coaching with the school for 15 years now and I did two years racing AMA 600 Supersport and FX. Thank you very much . :grin2:

 

[Misti Hurst]

She specifically said ADDING lean angle and accelerating at the same time. Anyone who takes the time to learn about traction knows that both actions are using it up and there is only a limited amount. So, if you are leaned, you can accelerate and pull yourself out of the turn, but you should NOT lean further and accelerate at the same time. It will cause your rear tire to give out and then if you let off the gas, you'll high side. It's better to slowly decelerate if you are at a steep lean angle and reset your line before accelerating (if you are running wide).

Now, If you are going slow and not leaned over at all. You can lean and accelerate at the same time, and you won't crash, because you are not near the limits of traction. That is bad practice, however, as it will cause a crash at higher speeds. So lean while maintaining throttle and accelerate as you stand the bike up coming out of a corner.

I honestly think that trail braking helps prevent this. Because it makes you think of slowing down while setting your lean angle and only speeding up after the it is set and you are facing the exit. Slow in -- fast out.

Fantastic response and clarification. Everything you say is bang on and especially the part about how you can get away with adding lean angle and throttle at the same time at slower speeds because you are not at the limits of traction. But as you said, it creates bad habits that can cause issues when the speed creeps up OR when mistakes are made. Adding lean and gas at the same time can not only test the limits of traction but tends to do something specific (and dangerous) to your line.... What do you think is the most common outcome of a riders line if they are trying to add gas while still steering the bike? Where will it likely end up? When should a rider begin adding the throttle?

 

[ranger995]

Does it make the line look like a clover leaf as accelerating tries to make the line wider, while turning makes it tighter?

 

[Misti Hurst]

Does it make the line look like a clover leaf as accelerating tries to make the line wider, while turning makes it tighter?

Maybe a clover leaf?

But yes, IF you try and turn the bike with the gas already on it is harder to get it turned and pointed in the right direction. If you add throttle and lean angle at the same time, it tends to push the bike on a wider line then if you waited until the bike was leaned before rolling on the gas....this is where the biggest error often occurs, the bike begins running wide but the rider is already rolling on the gas, so they lean the bike over further to make the corner while still rolling on the gas and simply run out of traction.

So that being said, what should you make sure is completed BEFORE beginning to roll on the gas?

:nerd:

 

[ranger995]

Maybe a clover leaf?

But yes, IF you try and turn the bike with the gas already on it is harder to get it turned and pointed in the right direction. If you add throttle and lean angle at the same time, it tends to push the bike on a wider line then if you waited until the bike was leaned before rolling on the gas....this is where the biggest error often occurs, the bike begins running wide but the rider is already rolling on the gas, so they lean the bike over further to make the corner while still rolling on the gas and simply run out of traction.

So that being said, what should you make sure is completed BEFORE beginning to roll on the gas?

:nerd:

What I mean by clover leaf is a wobbly line instead of a smooth one.

You should make sure the turn in complete and you are on your line before rolling on.

 

[Misti Hurst]

What I mean by clover leaf is a wobbly line instead of a smooth one.

You should make sure the turn in complete and you are on your line before rolling on.

Yes, a line with multiple corrections or one that puts you out wider than intended.

And yes, sounds simple enough but you'd be amazed at how many people continue to steer the bike while adding lean. So the separation we want to make clear is to get the bike turned, and pointed in the direction you want AND THEN begin rolling on the gas.

What about the rate at which you steer the bike? Does it matter if you turn it quickly or slowly? What is the ideal?