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I definately see some Daytona influence there as well. A 1050 would be a nice addition to that lineup, but from the way they say the 675 is selling they may be afraid to change the recipe. Of course I guess having the option of one or the other would be nice as well.
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That bike is hot! A 1050 Daytona would be hot too though.
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684 Posts
Either I'm getting too old to appreciate current styling trends or the Italians have forgotten how to make beautiful motorcycles. It looks something like the 675 . . . just a little more discombobulated.
[ This message was edited by: Curmudgeon on 2006-11-15 11:14 ]
[ This message was edited by: Curmudgeon on 2006-11-15 11:14 ]
i really like it, it looks like they took a note from the s3 gas tank, with that cutout knee area. likey likey,, i think this is my next bike, but quite frankly,, i hope they don't do a 1050 daytona,, because it would still only get 130 hp, and the stock 1098 makes 160. why can't triumph match cc's to hp, ??? our's seems to be the only liter bikes that only get 130 hp?
+1! :gpst:
Also, I think Triumph has learned their lesson. If they want to sell a liter bike it better be able to compare not only in looks but in performance with the Japaroos. The Daytona 955i is one of the best looking bikes of all time in my opinion, but no one bought them because they weren't a "track bike." :jest:
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Because our 1050s are "tuned for torque." Triumph designed the engine to make lots of power at low rpms, but that means it's not as efficient (powerful) at high rpms.
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5,284 Posts
and that's exactly what I love about her! :-D The Duc is sweeeeet, but I think someone got that price waaaaaay wrong. $15k??? maybe fer the exhaust! :-D
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Curmudgeon is right. Look at the Daytona 955's hp compared to the S3. Much higher. It's all in how it's tuned.
Curmudgeon, the Italians haven't forgotten, I think that the other manufacturers are just catching up to them in design.
Capt.
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2,276 Posts
$15K? No way. I'd bet base price is 17 to 20K. The S model? Hope ya win the lottery.
I have little doubt that the 1050 could be retuned with cams, headwork, etc. to make 160 hp relatively easily. But then everyone would complain that it was too peaky.
For comparison, this makes it more interesting...
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I have little doubt that the 1050 could be retuned with cams, headwork, etc. to make 160 hp relatively easily. But then everyone would complain that it was too peaky.
For comparison, this makes it more interesting...
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1,312 Posts
From that comparison, I like the tail of the Duc, but the rest of the 675
Capt.
Capt.
Based on R100's comparo photos I think the 675 is the nicer looking machine..by far. Factor in that you can almost get two 675s for the price of one 1098, and the Duc doesn't make much sense. Also...my God, somebody slap the mutant engineer who designed that SSSA on the Duc. Did they make the chain cut-out with a Chainsaw??? 
You are right R100, they really are very similar when you look. Given the choice I'd go with the 675 though. Not from "I love triumph" just because I think it's a nicer thing. Ducati have lost a lot in style since the 916/996/999 IMO. That could be any yama/suzi/honda creation. I remember seeing the 1st 916 and being absolutely blown away by it. Not at all with the 1098, disgraceful SSSA and seat unit.
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684 Posts
Larger displacement or a well-designed turbo.
From the Ducati website
NEW 2007 DUCATI 1098 SUPERBIKE: $14,995 MSRP
Ducati North America proudly announces North American pricing for the all new 1098 Superbike. This revolutionary motorcycle, which makes 160 horsepower and weighs 381 pounds will carry a manufacturers suggested retail price of $14,995. The 1098 S will be priced at $19,995 while the limited edition 1098 S Tri-Colore will be $24,995.
Prices in Canada will be $19,995 for standard version, while the 1098 S will be $24,995 and the Tri-Colore will be $29,995.
“We are very pleased to announce not only a radical new Superbike family, but also a brand new competitive pricing structure. We have worked long and hard to make this happen, and we are excited to launch this motorcycle at the Seattle International Motorcycle Show, which happens December 1-3†said Michael Lock, CEO of Ducati North America.
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646 Posts
Remember y'all that the Big 'Tona 955 according to Triumph was rated a 147bhp, it was it's weight that got in it's way when compared to the other liter bikes. I dont begin to believe that 130bhp is all the 1050 mil is capable of, it's just set up like that for our particular motorcycle, it's a bit slower revving and general tuning (cams) than a superbike type scoot (the current non-existant Daytona 1050) would have. All things being equal (displacement-engineering and physics-wise) a 4 will always make more horses than a triple, and likewise the triple to the twin.
Triumph certainly has the skill and wherewithall to do what is needed to a triple to make comparitive power to an inline 4, look at what they did witht he d675! As time goes on and the superbike class gets more cutting edge performance bits and pieces I suspect that Triumph although they seem to be waiting for something had better do this one right as well when/if they decide to take the plunge in the superbike class and not put out a product that juuust touches the tail end on the best of the superbike class because at the rate these bikes get tweaked and changed twice a leap-year they have to have a production and business model that addresses the perpetual R&D, testing, supply, marketing and manufacturing resources to keep up, all of this has to complement the economics of their manufacturing capabilities. They are tiny and although growing still cant afford to bollox a thing like this up and have the bike be poorly recieved because you dont get endless chances to get things right businesswise (which will still be dependant on the consumers coming into the fold and scooping up product).
Cruisers and retro's are easy and probably offer more profit margin in comparison. Tweak a bonneville all you want, it'll still resemble the good 'ol 68 model and nobody expects it to handle and scream like an R6, Rocket sales and the absence of urgency regarding redesigning it every 2 years is likely pulling in lots of extra foldin' money. Those production lines will likely not need retooling for another 3-4 years considering that bike has been out since '04, Triumph is likely already tooling that new factory in indonesia to address production of the new 675 as we speak (type), 'cos it cant dare look like the way it does for 4 years. The fickle supersport market wont stand for old tech bikes when a drive by wire, slipper clutched, traction controlled, big-banged and finally a true 17.5k redline and even more impractical for the street Yamaha is available right next door from which 99.8% of the target market still wont begin to approach 60% of the machines capabilities. They will still vote with their wallets and eagerly supply the aftermarket and ebay stores with salvaged parts kindly donated by the ever invincible squid.
I certainly am not privvy to any "inside" info but although I'd love to see a big 'tona now, I'd certainly want them to do it right, think about what is coming out for '07..this new Duc, the R1 and a new Gixxer..all stellar products, just like the d675 a new big 'tona cannot dare be mediocre and also like the d675 it's new displacement number will likely not have it qualify for the usual racing organizational groups (AMA, etc.), I think the Sprint covers the "near"-GT arena for Triumph right now and they cant bump the triple displacement too high as to tickle the big-bore market (they did kill development on that busa killer right).
I think a good way to plumpen up the purse will be to put out a cruiser that sits between the Rocket and Speedmaster, I dunno like a 1600 twin after all America loves crusers more than any other and I suspect that they being the bigger ticket item for many manufacturers yet the lowest tech and longer redevelopment cycles easily offer the largest profits...so fatten up the purse and use the extra loot to make sure the big 'tona is done right with no corners cut!
I cant wait to see what emerges..in the meantime I'll gaze at this Italian beauty in blood red..they sure have a way of designing a sexy looking swingarm dont the they?
Triumph certainly has the skill and wherewithall to do what is needed to a triple to make comparitive power to an inline 4, look at what they did witht he d675! As time goes on and the superbike class gets more cutting edge performance bits and pieces I suspect that Triumph although they seem to be waiting for something had better do this one right as well when/if they decide to take the plunge in the superbike class and not put out a product that juuust touches the tail end on the best of the superbike class because at the rate these bikes get tweaked and changed twice a leap-year they have to have a production and business model that addresses the perpetual R&D, testing, supply, marketing and manufacturing resources to keep up, all of this has to complement the economics of their manufacturing capabilities. They are tiny and although growing still cant afford to bollox a thing like this up and have the bike be poorly recieved because you dont get endless chances to get things right businesswise (which will still be dependant on the consumers coming into the fold and scooping up product).
Cruisers and retro's are easy and probably offer more profit margin in comparison. Tweak a bonneville all you want, it'll still resemble the good 'ol 68 model and nobody expects it to handle and scream like an R6, Rocket sales and the absence of urgency regarding redesigning it every 2 years is likely pulling in lots of extra foldin' money. Those production lines will likely not need retooling for another 3-4 years considering that bike has been out since '04, Triumph is likely already tooling that new factory in indonesia to address production of the new 675 as we speak (type), 'cos it cant dare look like the way it does for 4 years. The fickle supersport market wont stand for old tech bikes when a drive by wire, slipper clutched, traction controlled, big-banged and finally a true 17.5k redline and even more impractical for the street Yamaha is available right next door from which 99.8% of the target market still wont begin to approach 60% of the machines capabilities. They will still vote with their wallets and eagerly supply the aftermarket and ebay stores with salvaged parts kindly donated by the ever invincible squid.
I certainly am not privvy to any "inside" info but although I'd love to see a big 'tona now, I'd certainly want them to do it right, think about what is coming out for '07..this new Duc, the R1 and a new Gixxer..all stellar products, just like the d675 a new big 'tona cannot dare be mediocre and also like the d675 it's new displacement number will likely not have it qualify for the usual racing organizational groups (AMA, etc.), I think the Sprint covers the "near"-GT arena for Triumph right now and they cant bump the triple displacement too high as to tickle the big-bore market (they did kill development on that busa killer right).
I think a good way to plumpen up the purse will be to put out a cruiser that sits between the Rocket and Speedmaster, I dunno like a 1600 twin after all America loves crusers more than any other and I suspect that they being the bigger ticket item for many manufacturers yet the lowest tech and longer redevelopment cycles easily offer the largest profits...so fatten up the purse and use the extra loot to make sure the big 'tona is done right with no corners cut!
I cant wait to see what emerges..in the meantime I'll gaze at this Italian beauty in blood red..they sure have a way of designing a sexy looking swingarm dont the they?
I'm sure it was all very profound, but I didn't feel like reading all of that above. However, being an engineer I whole heartedly support the phrase "speed is just a question of money." Perfect example being when Honda made the 125cc prototype that was capable of 210mph. Having 3 cylinders instead of 4, or 2, has nothing to do with how much power you generate. :brk:
No but the less cylinders you have with a target displacement, the bigger your moving parts are and the slower it takes during all the strokes. This limits RPM.
Everything on a track bike is based on racing. The Daytona 675 can get away with being a track bike because the displacement is small enough that your parts are not as big, but when you get to motogp racing or your higher displacement races the most common configuration is usually the inline 4 or the better, IMO, V-4 configuration. I like the V-4 because of space and smaller crankshaft.
Aprillia still believes in the three cylinder design.
Anything with more cylinders becomes to wide and heavy.
I traded my R6 because I was tired of riding a track bike....that is why I love the S3 you get a dose of all that is good.
:wink:
Everything on a track bike is based on racing. The Daytona 675 can get away with being a track bike because the displacement is small enough that your parts are not as big, but when you get to motogp racing or your higher displacement races the most common configuration is usually the inline 4 or the better, IMO, V-4 configuration. I like the V-4 because of space and smaller crankshaft.
Aprillia still believes in the three cylinder design.
Anything with more cylinders becomes to wide and heavy.
I traded my R6 because I was tired of riding a track bike....that is why I love the S3 you get a dose of all that is good.
:wink:
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