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Hey guys!

Bit of a problem here. I took my bike in because my charging system has been weak for a long time and instead of throwing the battery on the Tender every 2-3 months I finally brought it in. He said it needed a new regulator/rectifier and I asked him to just order the part and I would pay the bench fee and do the labor myself.

He ordered an ElectroSport Regulator/Rectifier (#864250) for about $100 and I took it home. Now I'm going through my manual and can't find mention of a R/R anywhere! I brought the bike back to him and explained and he looked around the usual spots and said it must be under the tank or in the front faring somewhere. I've been inside both areas a good deal and I've never seen anything that looks like this part.

I called another shop today and asked them where it is and they said to look under the back faring, which I did. Still can't find it. How can two different shops not know where it is?!

My bike doesn't have a stator. It does have an alternator, which is clearly listed in my manual.

Keep in mind this is a 2001 Sprint ST (aka "Generation 1")

**I've also read the thread about running additional thick gauge wiring to the battery terminals for better charging and general voltage flow. Any comments on that application with my bike?
 

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I have an 03 Sprint, so guessing the R/R is in the same place...

If so, it's on the right hand side above the swing arm pivot:
IMG_20150215_143213.jpg

Access to change it is MUCH easier with the shock absorber removed.
 

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What shop are you using? Whichever one it is, take the Electrosport junk back and tell them it's not compatible with the Nippon Denso alternator in your bike. There is no separate R/R on a G1.

The Gen 1 955s have an automotive type alternator unit; the R/R is part of it. You need to rebuild or replace that part. You can read more than you ever wanted to know about the T3 version of that part here; it's very similar to yours but I'm afraid I can't tell you what the differences are besides the part numbers as I'm more of a G2 guy.

You can see the Triumph parts listing here.

Sprint Manufacturing can sell you the regulator and rectifier that go inside your alternator here. I just ordered a part from them and was quoted two weeks for delivery, but it was here in six days.

I've also seen someone post recently that they were able to pick up a used alternator from a low-mile bike on eBay for less than the cost of new brushes, so there's that to consider as well.

Cheers,
-Kit
 

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I took apart my Nippondenso alternator omand I took off the coin shaped regulator using a solder iron like you did. I wanted to test the regulator with my multimeter and I touch both pins and it shows a connection. I touch each pin to the regulator body and it shows a connection. Is this normal? Thanks.
 

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Kit won't answer you from where he is unfortunately. Plus the writing about the G1 generator was written by N5XL.
Anyway as you can see the regulator have two pins plus the ground. If you connect your multimeter - pin on rhe IG terminal and + pin on the F (field) terminal you'll measure a diode. So on the diode position of your multimeter you should measure between 400 and 700 (mV).
However this diode is just a protection device.
As you know (or not) the RR in such a generator regulates the current in the rotor to generate such a magnetic field that the stator output, once rectified and filtered is around 14V or a little more.
If you measure between the F terminal and the ground you should get an infinite resistance. Doing so you measure between the emitter and collector of the power transistor. As it's not commanded it doesn't let any current flowing. Preferably put the + pin of the multimeter on the F terminal.
If you get a very low resistance, the power transistor is toasted.
721831
 

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Some comments on the measurements. It seems some measurement on both N(XL and Haynes are not consistent w/ the schematic. The schematic could be bad or incomplete or the terminal may have been mismatched during the measurement.
721836
 

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Thanks Fred, I really appreciate the detailed description you drew out. It seems like the internal diode in my regulator has gone bad and the replacements offered are aftermarket versions. I can go the route of buying a used alternator, but the prices are ridiculously high! The other option is to buy a cheaper similar nippondenso alternator with similar internals like on a suzuki bandit for $30 and part out the regulator. It's hard finding parts for our old bikes, but if there is a will, there is a way! Thanks for the walkthrough with the resistance measurements for the regulator as well. Im sorry to hear about your buddy Kit. He seemed incredibly knowledgeable and helpful on this forum. Glad that you and many others here share that same knowledge!
 

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Can't you just find the regulator part (field current regulator actually)
Searched everywhere on the web and couldn't find it. They have a new regulator in the UK on ebay but that's going for $200. Insane man! Figured I can find it in a used nippondenso alternator. The search for the silver coin continues my friend...
 

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Still you can test the generator on the bench connected to a battery and rotating it w/ a drill driver. This way you'll be able to check whether the generator is actually providing voltage (hence current) to the rotor.
I guess you tested the continuity of the stator (including the brushes) coil and the rotor coils.
BTW checking the brushes is also something to do first as they worn out as a normal behavior.
 

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the drill idea is genius! My stator, rectifier and coils are all still good, the brushes are good and at length. It is generator voltage, at 14.3V at around 5k rpm, but the main problem was a massive parasitic draw which completely drained my battery multiple times within 1hr. It has been narrowed down to the alternator. After doing my checks along with your advice, I am certain the regulator is faulty. At least I hope it is that... I was able to obtain a cheap zx7 alternator which uses the same ND25 setup and will take out the regulator for a swap. Hoping it goes smoothly. Thanks again Fred.
 

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OK. W/ a little electronic/electricity knowledge you could even test the regulator w/o any rotary machine. Juste static as it generates a current on the field terminal through the rotor coil in regard to the voltage it sees at the IG (ignition) terminal. The farther from 14V the higher the current.
Did you check the diode bridge (rectifier)? Fairly simple.
 

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Rectifier diodes are good and in one direction. The regulator shows a short and gets extremely hot just from plugging in and causing the parasitic draw. My question is, after replacing it, Can't I directly connect the alternator leads to the battery instead of going back into the other wires? I figured it would be cleaner and better to keep the wire distance shorter so I can get the most voltage out of the alternator. Thoughts?
 

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Rectifier diodes are good and in one direction.
If they were good in both directions they wouldn't be good :).
The regulator shows a short and gets extremely hot just from plugging in and causing the parasitic draw.
OK, so we can assume it's cooked. I guess it's getting very hot even w/o the rotor connected. Right?
My question is, after replacing it, Can't I directly connect the alternator leads to the battery instead of going back into the other wires? I figured it would be cleaner and better to keep the wire distance shorter so I can get the most voltage out of the alternator. Thoughts?
Yes, provided you add a fuse inline as shown on the schematic. The rotor must be connected after the ignition switch whatever wire you use, as shown on the schematic.
 

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Yes, provided you add a fuse inline as shown on the schematic. The rotor must be connected after the ignition switch whatever wire you use, as shown on the schematic.
Was wondering why it has to be after the ignition and why I can't directly add in a direct line w/ 30A fuse to the battery terminals?
 

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Obviously you got that the rectifier output and the IG regulator input are different stories.
Fine w/ the rectifier output to be tighten directly to the battery via a 30A fuse.

But the regulator is an electronic circuitry that draw current to work. So it would eat current permanently even when the key is turned off. So the battery would go empty in some days maybe less.

In addition, as the regulator provides a current to the rotor that has a relationship w/ the IG voltage, when the engine is stopped the IG voltage would stay at 12 ~ 12.5V. So the regulator would provide a stator current in order to try to get the IG voltage to ~14.3V. As the engine is stopped, no way to do that. As a consequence it will draw battery current and so IG will go down.
The rotor current is something like I=k(14,3-Uig) and Rr being the rotor resistance (it's an approximation) and Ur the rotor voltage I = Ur / Rr. k being a constant linked to the rotor circuitry.

What we see is the more the IG voltage go down (Vbatt = Uig because of the direct connection) the more 14.3-Uig will go up, then the more I will go up. So the more the regulator will draw battery current (then lower the battery voltage) the more the regulator will draw the battery current (generating more rotor current).

You understand that his will promptly become catastrophic for the rotor life and for the battery life.

edit: ideally the regulator should be powered only when the engine is turning.
 

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Obviously you got that the rectifier output and the IG regulator input are different stories.
Fine w/ the rectifier output to be tighten directly to the battery via a 30A fuse.

But the regulator is an electronic circuitry that draw current to work. So it would eat current permanently even when the key is turned off. So the battery would go empty in some days maybe less.

In addition, as the regulator provides a current to the rotor that has a relationship w/ the IG voltage, when the engine is stopped the IG voltage would stay at 12 ~ 12.5V. So the regulator would provide a stator current in order to try to get the IG voltage to ~14.3V. As the engine is stopped, no way to do that. As a consequence it will draw battery current and so IG will go down.
The rotor current is something like I=k(14,3-Uig) and Rr being the rotor resistance (it's an approximation) and Ur the rotor voltage I = Ur / Rr. k being a constant linked to the rotor circuitry.

What we see is the more the IG voltage go down (Vbatt = Uig because of the direct connection) the more 14.3-Uig will go up, then the more I will go up. So the more the regulator will draw battery current (then lower the battery voltage) the more the regulator will draw the battery current (generating more rotor current).

You understand that his will promptly become catastrophic for the rotor life and for the battery life.

edit: ideally the regulator should be powered only when the engine is turning.
Fred, you have to forgive me as I am not too good w/ electric diagrams, but your alternator diagram makes a lot of sense. It seems that I have a parasitic draw that is constantly providing current to the alternator regulator which gets warm and drains the battery overnight. The key switch clearly isn't stopping it. I unplugged the key ignition and still get this draw. I tested the key ignition switch and it is good.

SO this is what I have so far. My alternator is good, in fact everything seems to be good. However, I have a parasitic draw which is from either one of the 2 wires that lead out of the alternator. Somewhere along these 2 paths is my problem. To give you another idea as to the culprit, sometimes after i go back from a ride and turn the key off, the engine still runs, but all the lights dim. It shuts off after I hit the kill switch.

I am attaching a good diagram to help make sense of this. I measure the white wire coming out of the alternator and it is constantly providing 13V. At first I thought this isn't right, but I believe it is supposed to, as it goes directly to the starter relay/solenoid (please correct me if I am wrong). I believe my problem is at the brown wire, which looks to go directly to the key ignition. Please let me now your thoughts. You have gotten me further than I would have ever gotten myself lol. Appreciate it.
Wiring.png
 

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If I were to wire in my own switch directly to the alternator, do I do so at the white or brown wire? Is the white wire essentially the rectifier current and is the brown wire the regulator current? Thanks man, just trying to make it work...
 
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