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Discussion Starter #1
I just got it Procom to replace my dead Gill, and so far it has solved the problem, I'm back on the road. The bike runs pretty well with the default map.

Cold starting is a little harder than it used to be, and I'm hoping to tweak the cranking-speed timing (more advance?) to get it back to where it was.

I emailed Procom to find out if the built-in map is identical to the OEM Gill, and the reply was that it is. I don't think this is the case. I wish they would show absolute values in the editor instead of relative values..

The manual states that any downloaded map should go to position 0 on the igniter, I'm assuming this means the dial should be set to 0.

I am running on position 7 now, as recommended. If I download a new map to position 0, I don't see how it will work when I set the dial back to 7.

Any advice gratefully appreciated.:)
 

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I'm hoping to tweak the cranking-speed timing (more advance?) to get it back to where it was.
Where was it?. Don't go much above 10 degrees BTDC or so.

Excessive ignition advance while cranking can lead to the engine either kicking back violently causing the starter idler gear breakage that we have seen here before, or that the piston will hit the ignited mixture while still on the compression stroke.

This will have the effect of pushing the piston down against its normal rotation, effectively this is ‘knocking’ at cranking speeds. This is known as ‘kicking back’ and is normally characterised by the starter motor ‘straining’ and slowing right down, this makes the engine difficult to start and can easily destroy a starter motor, or in the case of the older Bonnies, the starter idler gear boss in short order.

One of the symptoms is that the battery appears to be discharged as the starter motor strains to turn the engine over and the cranking speed slows right down.

This is a typical timing map from the EFI bikes, standard factory map, note the figures at bottom left hand corner:

 

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Hi slinky,
My reading of the manual is that you set the unit according to the GILL part number. This puts the unit in basically correct settings for your machine (baseline map 0) you can then modify this map as you require/dare. You leave the switch in one position (in your case, you say 7) This is (I think) is for a 270 degree crank
 

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you need to load the map at what ever you have the switch set at that you are running the bike, the book is wrong with setting it at 0 on these bikes there is nothing on 0 on the switch.I try 1 or 2 deg at 0 rpms then go up to 3 dreg from 3000 rpm to redline.A good rule of thumb when the bike idles at the same rpm that the stock box did then you will be real close at 0 to idle rpm.
 

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Where was it?. Don't go much above 10 degrees BTDC or so.

Excessive ignition advance while cranking can lead to the engine either kicking back violently causing the starter idler gear breakage that we have seen here before, or that the piston will hit the ignited mixture while still on the compression stroke.

This will have the effect of pushing the piston down against its normal rotation, effectively this is ‘knocking’ at cranking speeds. This is known as ‘kicking back’ and is normally characterised by the starter motor ‘straining’ and slowing right down, this makes the engine difficult to start and can easily destroy a starter motor, or in the case of the older Bonnies, the starter idler gear boss in short order.

One of the symptoms is that the battery appears to be discharged as the starter motor strains to turn the engine over and the cranking speed slows right down.

This is a typical timing map from the EFI bikes, standard factory map, note the figures at bottom left hand corner:

lol no one has a clue what the timing is at on the carb bikes.
 

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I had the same problem, the manual is confusing about downloading to position 0, just leave it at position 7 in your case for ever.I did use the CMTBSA-06 download and it does go alot better than the standard one but still not perfect in starting .I'll be interested to see how your adjustments go.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys, I feel a whole lot happier now that is clear.. I am going to start with Mike's suggestion.

One thing tho, when I got the bike good and hot with the Procom, I plugged the Gill back in temporarily (it works ok when cold) to see if there was any change in idle speed, I could not discern any.

Overall the bike feels a lot more "civilised" with the Procom. The popping and farting is gone, and it seems smoother.
 

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I think timing on these bikes is just like carb set up to be 100% right one needs to do some dyno testing .test from 5000 rpms to red line add advance 1 deg at a time untill you find what makes the most hp.Then set the advance curve in real life rideing to get the bike to start and take off good with no ping.that is the one thing you can do with the new procom you cant do with the stock box .once you find what works you still wont know what the real timeing is though thats what sucks on these bikes .I have been wanting to come up with a way to check timing with bike runnin havent come up with a way that works yet .you need a timing light that can be set to 2 stroke with a advance meter to do it ,because it fires every turn.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks again Mike, I appreciate the advice. I understand that it's all trial and error without a dyno. I'm not too worried about finding the optimum curve, just running fine will do me. I don't even want to think about how the TPS curve complicates things.

You could maybe find the static timing with a degree disc on the end of the crank, turning over by hand?

One other thing I'm not clear on. If you set say 2 degrees at idle and 3 degrees at 3k rpm, does it progressively increase (like it shows on the editor) or does it jump straight up at 3k? I guess there is no way to tell for sure.
 

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theres also something about not changing the switch with the connector plugged in. it wont read a different setting till the power is cycled.
My procom came with a higher rev limit and 3 degrees more advance. I used the manual to set the switch, in the highest position if I remember, and it runs a lot better than before the gill went bad. I havnt tried hooking the laptop up to change any other settings yet, if I do, I will save whatever settings are in there now, just in case of the usual oops.
 

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I was thinking about that, there does not seem to be any way to read the settings off of the igniter. I was assuming that the default map covered it.

DId you read that it comes with 3 degrees of advance built in? I must have missed that if it's in the docs.
 

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The default map is supose to be the same as the stock map allthough it is not the same.
when you load one of there maps what you see on the chart is the default map pluss what ever deg at what ever rpm or tps setting that map adds to the default map.You are allways working with what ever default map you have the switch set at.Hope that makes since to you.They comeing with rev limit set at like 9,000 rpm you can add or take away from that.
 

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hey guys. I'm pretty sure i'm having issues with the Procom unit (http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/220548-fuel-air-spark-no-start.html).

I've gotten her to run a couple of times in the past month, but I'm having no shortage of trouble getting her started. she'll fire, but just won't catch.

I wanted to see if anyone has had luck adjusting the timing/RMP map to ease starts? I'm testing today, trying to figure out whether retarding or advancing for the low RPMs will show me the sweet spot. if someone else has already figured this out I'd appreciate any guidance.

also, it would be helpful to know at what RPM the starter spins the engine so I know what range to adjust on the timing scale?
 

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I still haven't messed with any maps on mine, but I'll say that I agree with Mike, I don't believe they're the same as the stock map. In the past, I never had a problem starting my bike. But now if the temp is near 50 or below, she's a bear to get going. She'll turn over, run for 5 seconds and stop. I'll do that 8-10 times before she'll stay running. Very aggravating since I never had that problem with the stock CDI, until the ho took a dump on me and left me sitting downtown overnight.

But Forchetto's comments about pre-detonation on startup terrifies me. I know I have the later model 865, but with my misfortune I'm sure I'd be the first to crack the boss. Not sure i want to mess with any mapping.
 

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this morning/afternoon i tried advancing as much as 3 deg at start up (0-400 rpm) and i tried retarding as much as 5.5 deg at start up. It sounded more like it wanted to start when retarded. It would still kick over when advanced, but it sounded more like an afterthought.

that being said, she never started. pulled the plugs several times to check for excess gas, cleaned the plugs, aired out the chambers just in case there was a flooding condition.

if the default map isn't the same at stock, it seems like we should be able to adjust it a few degrees one way or another to have a solid start. but no luck on that theory.

sent a help request to procom and hope to receive a reply sometime next week.

also emailed a fellow bonnie owner if he will come by and let me test his igniter on my bike to help trouble shoot.
 

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You may have other troubles you do need to test with a known good stock box first(it may not be the box
 
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