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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Due to a leaking cylinder base gasket, the jugs have to be removed. Am going to renew the pushrod block oil seals and as per Johns suggestion, seal the jug threads that enter the cases. The rings have done 11,500 miles since the motor was reconditioned. No oil passes them and compression is good (bike has just completed a 1700km journey to/from our North Island). Question(s)-should I renew the rings given that the top end is going to be stripped? If not, should I keep the tension on the rings when the jugs are removed (with plastic ties) or let them expand?
I intend to run a bead of Loctite 518 on both sides of the base gasket, my normal process is to simply grease same. How say you all?
 

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I would keep the rings as they are "bedded" into the bores - no problem with letting them expand when out of the bores - if you fit new rings you will have to run them in
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cheers wol-never did 'run in' the existing rings in true old fashion. Rather, loaded them into the bores from word go with plenty of throttle (up and down) on a long steady inclined road for 40 miles.
 

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Being much younger I kept old rings and just put everything together and engine still worked,
now I hone the bores, change rings and do the same kind of fast treatment like you did before with
loading rings from the start.
Engine works slightly better :).
 

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I used to do the old school method of running in - but now i have joined the "ride it like you stole it" method - much more fun
 

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I replaced rings at 10,000 miles when barrels off.No running in as such,just ride it around fast as normal and after several hundred miles it uses no oil now.At 10,000 miles,it was still not burning any oil.I used Harris supplied rings so real make unknown.The old ones were also Harris.Very good result from them.
 

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Having recently gone through the same routine in replacing the tappet block O rings, I would be inclined to measure the end gaps and make a decision from there. Mine had only 3K+ miles from their last rebore to + 0.20", but the gaps were up to almost 0.040". The pistons were fine as were the barrels. The new Hastings rings from the Bonneville shop fit without messing at about 0.012" gap. I didn't touch the bores as they still showed cross hatching. After 1,500 miles with an intense short break in, no oil burning and it runs great. So in my experience, renewing the rings into good bores and pistons was a the thing to do.
 

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The piston ring replacement is interesting.I have never had a rebore on barrels once a bike became mine.Rings,i replace only if the barrels are off for other work and they have done a lot of miles.My method for long life is the small dose of 2T oil in every fuel fill.No,it does not smoke or have any noticable effect other than the ring and bore wear is very low.Guides and valves still original,valve seats still just need a minimal hand grind if the head is off so seats are original.Just something i have always done on 4 stroke old bikes.Newish ones,i just use plain petrol as the engineering is a little better.
This goes back to the 50sand 60s when petrol additives were at the pumps in a large squirt bottles.Redex upper cylinder lubricant.The modern Redex is a different make up and more to clean injectors so i resorted to 2T as a substitute.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the replies. Going to re-ring. Has anyone had experience with Goetze brand rings, made in Germany and can be bought at quite a reasonable price out here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sorry, that was a 'lazy' question above. Have just conducted a Forum search and it shows that several have used these rings with great success.
 

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Thanks for the replies. Going to re-ring. Has anyone had experience with Goetze brand rings, made in Germany and can be bought at quite a reasonable price out here.
I fitted a set of Goetze rings to my T120R. The bore was good so a light hone and the new rings were all that was needed. I never ran it in, as such, just put it all back together and ran it normally. It's covered over 1,000 miles now and is totally smoke free and burns very little oil. I can't put my hand on my heart and say that they're the best rings ever but I've had no problem with them and would buy them again.
 

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Hi Lovecuba, Yes it's fine to reuse rings if all is well. Nothing will change. Do not hone cyl. if reusing rings. Obviously you'll visually inspect pistons, rings, bore. Often reusing good working rings is safer than hone & new rings on used bore & piston. I personally reused mine when I did my tappet blocks. It continued working perfectly as expected.

Do not!! Remove rings from pistons or try to measure gap. Removing them can slightly bend them & then you'll be in trouble. Don't bind them, just let them spring out & be as they will. Seal case mouth with lint free cloth & clean rings & grooves with carb cleaner spray or even just motor oil. Make sure you flush any loose carbon etc. out from behind rings. If you have compressed air it's simple as air will blow it out nicely. Don't worry about the hard brown deposits, they will just stay put as they were. Decarbon piston tops & top sides of pistons above top ring.

Oil cyl bore, pistons, rings, wrist pins(as possible) with motor oil. Do NOT assemble dry ever on a used bore. Squirt lots of oil down on rod bearings once all is cleaned.

Line up the rings in 3rds avoiding a ring gap at front or rear, or at wrist pin. The rings rotate as you ride anyway, but that is where I start with.

I have personally reused pistons & rings on several hundred motors to good results. Again, that is when motor was good to start with.

Regarding Loctite 518 it is outstanding stuff. Very similar to the Mercedes sealant we use at work. A really good thing is it doesn't harden if not pinched, meaning if some gets into the oil, it can't clog anything & simply dilutes away in the oil. Silicon on the other hand can clog everything if it gets into the oil.

I've put this type sealant on studs & nuts, washers as well as machined joints. It also acts as a mild thread locker. Yet not very hard to undo even at room temp. I've put it on countless thousands of gaskets to good results. I would for sure use it on the base gasket, nuts, washers. You will be assured of no leaks. I love this stuff. I know for sure the sealant can last at least 34 years with not a seep.

On a paper gasket I like to lay the gasket on a surface such as cardboard. Brush it over gasket with a small acid brush or the like. Turn gasket over & brush other side. Not very thick coat. This allows sealant to soak into paper to a degree & will not hardly squish out & make a mess. Even with sealant on the nuts, you'll be able to retorque base nuts & the sealant will not leak.

Loctite suggests the sealant works with rubber gaskets. I've not had that great of results with that. Rubber gaskets seal good on their own for the most part. However it's fantastic on threads such as plug with an o-ring as the threads won't leak even if o-ring does.

I recommend this on rocker box gaskets as well. I used it on my head gasket to good results, but head was flat so maybe it didn't matter. It does act like grease on a gasket or seal which on head gasket is good on a head gasket. The head gasket may be a little over temp for this sealant, but no leaks for me after several thousand miles.

This sealant is good for timing cover also.

The spec sheet suggests it can fill a .050" gap. I've not found that to be the case. You still want to start with a flat surface much as possible. It can fill a .005-.010 gap though as long as gap is not too long.

Regarding the tappet block rings use viton only. Debur the cyl where block goes in. I don't seal these. Use oil or grease as assembly lube & square up block well. Don't rely on the set screw bore for alignment. Don't try to turn block stationary. Tap it up/down and put turning pressure on tool & it will rotate easy as it moves. You only need to move it slightly when making the final adjustments. Use a real tappet block tool to avoid damage. They don't fit all that tight & are not hard to remove or install.

Most important to debur o-ring area of tappet block top & the head bore area also. If you do all this you will be rewarded with no leaks for a long time. Use only viton prt rings also except the lower white one. Often viton is a brownish red in color. But that's a tint so could be different. You have to have a trusted supplier. You can just use oil or grease on prt seals or a thin smear of silicon. I've had good results with both ways. Last time I used silicon sealant & still dust dry. Your prt seal crush will be good if all is stock. Look at the old white seal. If it's slightly crushed & not smashed flat you should be ok. If head or cyl have been skimmed you need to think about the crush.
Don
 
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