pidjones '72 T150V project

Hi,

pidjones said:

Timing side cover (plus points and advance mechanism.) off. The points wires are extremely stiff. Think I will replace them and of course the seal.

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By "seal", if you mean "E8756 Rubber ferrule", there should be two of them - one under the points plate in the timing cover, the other where the points wires' 'cable' enters the front of the crankcase.

However, if you intend to replace original points wires' 'cable', life isn't that simple in the 21st century ... If what the bike has now is the three individual points wires moulded into black insulation that has a circular cross-section, that's original and the "Rubber ferrules" can seal around it.

However2, points wires moulded in black insulation has been NLA for decades - the last triple was made in early 1976. What's supplied now for a triple is three wires threaded in cheap easily-available black plastic sleeving; put the "Rubber ferrules" around that and the sleeving will just bend into a 'U'-shape, water and/or oil will just go inside the "Rubber ferrules" in the middle of the "U".

Here in GB, Autosparks have sleeving in a large number of different ID, they sent me short lengths of all of them, I found the one with the OD that just slipped through the hole in the crankcase and timing cover.

Then original individual wires are 'original Lucas'-standard 14-strand (~18AWG), which is overkill for the power they conduct. I use easily-available 9-strand (~19AWG) wire; in the US, British Wiring sells it, just not with the three insulation colour combos. Lucas supplied for triple points ... 😖

Finally here, ime setting points on a triple is an excellent definition of "frustration". If you follow the EI path trodden by many triple owners in the past five decades, only Tri-Spark requires three wires into the 'points' compartment, all others need only two.

Hth.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

covers off the rocker boxes
The one inch 5/16 NF bolts on the intake side had both stripped threads
Measured and tested - they will be replaced by 1.25 inch bolts.

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Triple rocker covers are secured by a 1/4"UNC bolt at each end, two 5/16"UNF sleeve bolts between. The sleeve bolts screw on to studs protruding from inside the rocker-box; if they are what you're talking about changing for 1-1/4"UH, the longer'll likely bottom on the 'box before tightening the cover.

Otoh, if you mean the end bolts, sounds like Guy The Gorilla's bigger brother has been there before you and a bit more work than just longer bolts is needed?

Risking telling you things you know already:-

. The rocker-box bolts' torque is 6 lb.ft. If the covers leak with the standard gasket, the bolts don't need more torque, a DPO has buggered the box-cover sealing.

. Because the sleeve bolts don't bottom normally; if a DPO has failed to follow simple instructions and tightened them before the end bolts, it's possible to bend the cover. Later covers have an additional longitudinal rib inside between the bolt holes, to try and prevent the worse depredations of the paddlers at the shallow end of the gene pool; however, if the end 1/4" bolts are always torqued up before the sleeve nuts, never any leaks ime.

. New cover gasket, I grease the side against the 'box, stick it on, fit the cover. Next time the cover's removed, the gasket comes off the 'box stuck to the cover. I reuse them numerous times without leaks, regreasing the side against the 'box each time.

Hth.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

carbs (626-61,62&63) come chromed?

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Also no.

pidjones said:

covers
have a ragged edge around the outside circumference.

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Hopefully we're talking about these:-

... if so, the upper edge of each cover feels "ragged" because the ends of the vertical fins across the cover protrude above the edge of the cover; otoh, the fin ends don't protrude below the lower edge. Nevertheless, no part of the actual gasket mating surface anywhere feels or looks "ragged"?

Btw, in addition to different inlet and exhaust rocker-boxes, because the cover sleeve bolts/studs aren't equidistant from both ends of the covers, they're different too - one cover has "IN" cast inside, the other has "EX"?

pidjones said:

may spin some washers for them, reducing the OD and lifting the heads enough to permit a socket to fit until tight. Presently, fins on the covers interfere for the final turn.
At least, by using the 5/16 bolts the heads use the same 1/2 wrench (sorry - spanner) all across.

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Standard 1/4" bolts, the adjacent fin doesn't get in the way of a wrench or socket. Triumph supplied a flat double-ended ring wrench - 60-1907, 7/16" AF 12-point one end, 1/2" AF 12-point the other - in the bike's toolkit.

Aside and curiously, I've been trying to find a new one of those wrenches (any new one, not necessarily 60-1907 itself) because they're very useful - as well as the rocker covers, the cylinder base nuts are 1/2" AF 12-point, the special triple plug spanner has a 1/2" hex., etc. However, while the dealers that keep Magpie Syndrome sufferers hooked still make expensive ones, cheap ones have quietly become rocking-horse poo, at least on this side of The Pond.

pidjones said:

cyclotrons. Some of the people that had been hired to care for the machines couldn't understand the chairs that they sat in.

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🤣 I'm pinching that.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

wiring harness
re-done with negative ground

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If you do, please, 🙏 for the sanity of following owners, forum helpers and auto-electricians:-

. use the standard Lucas colour codes on the positive side;

. use Black-insulated wires on the negative side;

. they're all available from British Wiring in the US.

pidjones said:

Meridan used about 14 gauge wires for much of this.

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Not as standard they didn't. Lucas standard on a '72 would be 14-strand, each strand #32 (British) Standard Wire Gauge = about 19AWG total.

BW is supplied from GB, his equivalent is also 14-strand but with slightly larger 0.3 mm. OD strands = about 18AWG total.

pidjones said:

the whimpy Lucas single-phase 120 Watt shouldn't need wires this big

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Yes and no. Lucas rated original 14/32 for just 7.5A. The slightly larger metric 14/0.30 is rated for 8.75A. "the whimpy Lucas single-phase" exceeded the original wire's rating barely above tickover, exceeds the metric's rating at less than 3,000 rpm ...

Individual component wires, not an issue. Main Brown/Blue, an issue. I use 28/0.30 thinwall rated for 25A, but I fit 3-phase high-output alternators as a matter of course.

With "the whimpy Lucas single-phase", 28/0.30 thinwall's rating's OTT but the wire's barely thicker than either 14-strand. BW sells it, but not in Brown/Blue ... however, he does sell 28/0.30 with thicker 'normal' PVC insulation, rated for 17.5A.

pidjones said:

Many will probably be down-sized.

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I use 9/0.30 (rated for 5.75A) for most individual component wires; however, I can get it in more standard Lucas colours and combos. than BW sells.

pidjones said:

I'll probably retain many of the Lucas bullet-style connectors, though. They seem to still be in good shape, just need removed and re-soldered into the new harness.

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Again, original '72 Lucas harness didn't have soldered bullets, they'd given up soldering long before then. I use 9/0.30, 14/0.30 and 28/0.30 (0.65 sq.mm., 1 sq.mm. and 2 sq.mm. respectively) because crimping bullets are easily-available and work.

Far be it for me to do BW out of sales but an order from, say, Autosparks or Vehicle Wiring Products in GB would give more choice and might not cost much more?

pidjones said:

zero lights on it, so they will be a combination of aftermarket and repurposed GoldWing parts.

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If the bike still has the 'flatback' headlamp shell, be aware it's picky about which lens/reflectors it'll take. As I've always considered the original BPF unfit for a moped, never mind anything 120 mph-capable, my T150 still has a Lucas lens/reflector but one that takes a modern P43t-base bulb; mind, it needs these type of terminals/plug and the later rubber 'bathtub' with two wiring inlets.

Ignition switch
Lucas supplied similar versions for the T160, '79-on Co-op twins and electric-start Commando; NVT and the Co-op improved the switch's water-proofing, the improvements can be applied to your bike's switch; do you want details?

Hth.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

lighting will be LED.

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for all except the standard BPF headlamp.

Headlamp, depends what you want it for:-

. BPF lens/reflector doesn't focus any bulb well for seeing at night. Aiui, will be exacerbated if your bike's lens/reflector is the original, intended for the '71-on 370 (45/35) bulb - BPF LED headlamp bulbs are intended to replace pre-'71 446 (50/40) bulbs, different lens/reflector.

. Otoh, if you want the headlamp just for a daytime riding lamp, the poorly-focussed light is 'good' at that ...

pidjones said:

LED
should permit the primary supply wires to the handlebars to remain the originals and much smaller used to individual lighting loads.

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Lucas rated original 14 x 32SWG-strand wire for 7.5A = 90W @ 12V, more than adequate for any bulb except one of the quartz-halogen 100W+ headlamp bulbs.

pidjones said:

Ignition will still use the heavy original wires (the white/yellow seems in good shape) except the points leads must be replaced

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'12V' coil should not draw any more than 4A, original Lucas around 3.5A. So 9-strand metric rated for 5.75A will be more than adequate between each coil, condenser and points.

pidjones said:

Cleaning more on the engine today. The fins look like they have been painted with truck be liner.

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Luck ...

Hth.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

It has to stop better than my first bike

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Mmmm ... "better" is relative and now you're talking about a 120 mph-capable motorcycle, not speed-limited by a 12" over springer front end and hard tail, that probably weighs 600 lb with rider? When using it, most if not all of the other vehicles around will have been built much later, if not recently. Triple has the performance to keep up with modern vehicles and give the rider plenty of fun. But Adam is right, they don't have the brakes; '71/'72 wasn't nicknamed "comical", "chronic", etc. for nothing.

There are reports online of how the comical can be made to lock the front wheel; possibly the first time, the second or the third if you're having fun? '73-on triples had at least a front disc, I've got a T150 with the earlier drum that's reckoned to be better than the comical; I'm a fan of good brakes, when I chose my T100's front brake, I chose a disc ...

pidjones said:

have a spare front for a GL1000
Comstar would look awful on a Triumph.

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True. But not difficult to pick up another Wing or other Honda front end with disc brake(s) and a spoked wheel? Wing headlamp'd fit easier?

I'll name-check @Truckedup Tony; iirc, he's fitted several Triumphs with Honda front ends(?), certainly he recently sold his T140D with one.

Hth.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

some measurements for wiring

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Hopefully, 🙏 you're going to use the correct Lucas wire colour codes, in which case you'll buy 'em from British Wiring; they sell by the metre:-

. two metres is more than enough for any wire from the front or rear to under the seat (one metre isn't enough );

. similarly, three metres for any wire from front to back (e.g. plain Brown from front brake switch to stop lamp, Brown/Green from pilot bulb to tail lamp);

. only colours you'll need more than three metres is Black (Lucas standard for 'negative ground' from battery -ve to components) and White (from multiple components to ignition switch).

Most wires can be 14-strand ("18 Gauge") but, for the main Black wire from battery -ve and the Brown/Blue wire from the ignition switch to battery +ve, I recommend 28-strand ("14 Gauge") - BW is supplied from GB and European metric 14-strand is only rated for 8.75A, which is exceeded by even the standard alternator before the engine reaches 3,000 rpm.

pidjones said:

where the component tray mounts.

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Sorry I'm late to the party here; on the oil tank(?):-

. oil tank inner should have two tabs with 1/4" ID holes close to the top front and rear corners, tray should have two matching 1/4" ID holes close to the timing-side edge;

. F9565 "Platform stay" bolts between a hole in about the centre of the tray and the oil tank lower mounting;

. if needed, Mitch Klempf has both parts both new and used.

pidjones said:

GL1000 headlight bucket fits the mounting hoops perfectly.

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Hth.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

wiring

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Some additional information ...

'Ground' wiring
I use two of these, one in the headlamp bucket, one under the seat (because most electrical components are in either of those two areas); I connect individual component 'ground' wires to the nearest "4-way".

I connect the two 4-ways with two lengths of 28-strand, those connected either in a ring terminal on a cylinder head stud or in one of these above the engine with a third wire to a cylinder head stud.

I connect the 4-way under the seat to battery -ve (on a negative-ground bike) also with 28-strand and through a 15A blade fuse.

Ignition switch
If you plan to use the standard ignition switch, be aware it isn't the one illustrated in the '72 T150 parts book, that's the simple on/off ignition switch not fitted '71/'72 except to the T100 ...

However, if you enter the listed "39565" number with "lucas" into your preferred internet search engine, while it'll return various different 5-figure number, the switches should all have four discrete terminals arranged in a circle:-
... this is correct and #1 to #3 match the terminal numbers in a '72 T150 wiring diagram. Btw, the bikes that used those switches connected the headlamp on/off switch to terminal #4, your bike has that switch connected to the Brown/Green wire to the pilot bulb. If you don't connect anything to #4, be aware it's 'hot' when the key/switch is turned fully-clockwise.

Ignition switch waterproofing
If you use either Lucas ignition switch type:-

. '81-on twins waterproofed the key end the best, using Nut 97-7120 to take Cover 60-7335 that clips over the lock end. You can also fit Cap 97-7123 to the key to cover the lock end when the key is in the lock.

. T160 and '79/'80 twins aren't quite as good but at least improved on the original '72 chromed ring "Nut" mounting the switch, with Nut 97-4589 to take Cover 60-4335.

. 2-position switch has a moulded rubber 'boot' as standard to cover the terminals.

. 4-position switch, T160 and '79-on twins mount it inside a waterproof box with the idiot lamps. However, Norton didn't, instead covering the terminals end of the switch with 06-4891 or 06-5723; risking stating the obvious, either'll require 'flag' female spade terminals on the wires.

. Nevertheless, I drill a small hole in the terminals end of the switch, at what'll be the lowest point when the switch is mounted; any water that does get into the switch can drain straight out, rather than swilling around inside for ages corroding the bits inside.

Hth.

Regards,

Hi,

pidjones said:

New plug ordered
rotary thread cleaner file on order. Hopefully can correct the internal threads so that the ordered plug works Ok.

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So a supplier mistake doesn't cause unnecessary angst, be aware Triumph used two threads on those taper-top stanchions:-

. '72 would've originally had 28 tpi (a Unified Constant Pitch thread);

. sometime earlier used 26 tpi (a Cycle-derived thread);

. in theory, the stanchions should be different enough no-one mixes up the threadforms ...; however, the plugs look very similar so it isn't unknown for a supplier not paying attention to mix 'em up ...

pidjones said:

head bearing races

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If you don't intend to replace with taper-rollers, last time I was in contact with Mitch Klempf, he still had some of the 97-4034 caged ball races illustrated/listed in the '72 T150 parts book. He was rather scathing about their longevity (apparently, to fit the cage, the number of balls was reduced from the previous loose twenty) but, given certainly some replacement taper-rollers bring their own problems and depending how many miles a year you'll put on the bike ...?

Hth.

Regards,