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Anyone else think the "bail out" of Detroit sounds familiar?

Arrogant out of touch executives, poor market strategy, heavy obligations to unions, outdated tehnology and no clear plan to go forward. Sound like the british motorcycle industry in the 1970's and sounds like detroit today. What's next, a GM workers's cooperative?

I don't think the "old " triumph could have ever built the great bikes that Triumph designs and builds now. Sometimes old companies need to die for an industry to get reborn.England survives and we will too.

What do you guys think of the parallels between GM of the 2000's and Triumph of the 1970's?
 

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Well don't worry I am anticipating that the states will be next. Governors will see the money flowing like wine and whine they will for their cut. The US dollar will be the new prize in Cracker Jack Boxes. Monopoly money will have more worth. I think it is time to get ready for the shift from recession to depression and of course anarchy. :eek:
 

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You don't think the CEO/Exec's who are still making millions including bonuses have any impact on the current situation?
Where's Lee Iacocca when we need him? Remember who HE was the first to take a pay cut when he took over at Chrysler in the 80's?
Certainly don't see that happening today. Seriously, bonuses? For what? Destroying the company? Holy ****....
 

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I think Meriden and the whole British motorcycle industry just ran out of time and money, there were some radical new bikes in the pipe-line but I think economics played a big part in their demise.

Detroit needs to restructure, I am sure they are capable of building even better cars in the future, maybe a leg up at this stage will help them, providing they do restructure.

I understand the Aussie government is propping up a Ford engine factory in OZ, to save both the factory and jobs.


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Ride on ! :)
 

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The Caravan was instrumental in pulling Chrysler out of that deep, deep hole. I say let them all go belly up.
 

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The problem is, you don't want to lose all the technology of a country, it's very hard to restart and get it all back. If you stop manufacturing everything and you'll end up with a country full of sales and marketing people !


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Ride on ! :(
 

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One major difference is that there are no problems with quality. I've been driving Fords for most of my life, and they are excellent cars.

But I will admit that the parallels are disturbing. I've been trying to decide if the unions or the senior mangers setting direction deserve more the blame. Probably a moot point; they both contributed heavily to the current state of affairs.

But the pain of one or more manufacturers going under would still be less than the pain of another huge step toward a socialist economy (and yes, I know not everyone sees that as bad - I do). Businesses that can't survive on their own must be allowed to die. Of course, government interference in the market should be reduced too. The constitution gives the government no right to dictate average fuel efficiencies to the manufacturers. Forcing the manufacturers to make products the public doesn't want isn't helping any more than bad management or greedy unions with unrealistic demands.
 

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Isn't Japan what happened to the Brits?

Exactly ! China and India are setting themselves up to take over the car industry, Korea has already made a good start but they are now a high priced labour force.

Automation is the way to go, it gets rid of a lot of mundane jobs but its a good alternative to cheap labour countries.

We have to keep the design and technology expertise, Jaguar is now owned by India but the design team of nearly 3000 people are still in the UK. I heard that HP (not the sauce people but the computer people) were outsourcing their R & D to Taiwan, bad move, obviously an accountant thought of that one.

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Japan couldn't have done it if the Brits hadn't left them an opening by not R&Ding properly. The Japanese also had the advantage of inventing modern manufacturing quality theory and practice. So not only were their designs considerably more advanced, they were putting out products of remarkable quality.
 

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........... So not only were their designs considerably more advanced, they were putting out products of remarkable quality.

Well it took them some time to get the quality bit right, in the 60's they put out some very shoddy toys and cars, cheap but useless. When they wisened up to quality control and R & D the rest is history.


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Sure, they weren't always good, but by the late 60s, they knew how to build very high quality products. As evidenced by the CB750.
 

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I think they got the bikes OK, as they were copied and added to, the Honda 750-4 was a revolution but not reliable, tendency to snap chains, the drive had faults. The cars put out in the 60's even late 60's were just thin panels, you could put a big bulge in one just by sitting on the bonnet (and I was pretty young then ! :D)
they were just rust buckets and fell to pieces in no time.


Then they put out a good car but the engine was a perfect copy of an Austin Cambridge, even the parts were able to be swapped !


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Ride on ! :)
 

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HI Desert I don't get it when you say "The constitution gives the government no right to dictate average fuel efficiencies to the manufacturers".

How could the founding fathers ever have had the foresight to dictate each and every item regarding which the legislature (state and federal) could promulgate laws?
The legislature was given a general right to legislate.
By your reasoning all laws relating to motor vehicles are unconstitutional because the founding fathers did not specifically provide the power to regulate motor vehicles.

Dang it, my post is
:eek:fft:
:)
 

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Whatever Stan, but it's a moot point, we have a treaty here, the treaty of Waitangi that's being turned inside out and back to front, and I am sure the founding fathers, read colonial governors didn't want to have the content read like its being interpreted today.

Also off topic ! :D

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Well it took them some time to get the quality bit right, in the 60's they put out some very shoddy toys and cars, cheap but useless. When they wisened up to quality control and R & D the rest is history.
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Ride on ! :)

That was also the start of our modern society.
I can't tell you how many people I know take pride on how "cheap" they bought stuff for. It doesn't matter on quality (atleast until it breaks), just price.
So Japan captured the interest of that whole part of society.

I always lived by the rule, "buy the best and only cry once".
 

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The comparison between Detroit's problems & those of Meriden etc. in the 60s had already crossed my mind. I think there are real similarities. Dinosaur thinking, and certainly some arrogance, resulted in a failure to see which way the market was going. Leaving it until the profits start to nosedive makes it all the harder to finance & develop new products.

The British motorcycle industries' failure was really a symptom of an archaic management culture. Very patriarchal, rigid, top down structure & somewhat class ridden too. It was believed at that time that shop floor workers had nothing to contribute but build or fit parts together & shut up! Whereas, in Japan, they had 'Quality Circles' where workers of all ranks sat together to continually improve the products. And the concept of 'Marketing' - really just finding out what customers want & directing the company to meet those needs - was pretty alien back then. As more people began to afford cars in the early 60s in the UK, they should have realised that their customers wanted a better proposition to ride two wheels.

And somewhat off topic (or on the alter-topic :D), the world has got 'socialism'. It's just that it's mainly for the rich, $4 trillion & counting in handouts & bailouts & not counting all the various corporate sudsidies & tax breaks already in existence. (Any idea why Exxon needs a tax break anyone?) This is the very money that has made the 'financial' economy 'bubble' (as opposed to 'real' economy of goods, services & jobs) so large. It's nothing more than a Pyramid scheme which the 'real' economy must bail out when it, inevitably, collapses. Nothing more than a cyclical pump that funnels money out of the real economy to a bunch of rich gamblers who scam instead of work. (Hooking into the real economy by creating 'securitisation' and banks/ companies too 'big' to fall.) And no regard taken either for the fact that the fundamental resource for all of this is finite - called planet Earth - whose capacity we are now royally exceeding. The fact that all money is conjured up as debt, free gratis, by the private owners of the 'Federal' Reserve & Central Banks means we are not 'free' but their slaves at one wage level or another (or none). This could be simply fixed by making Banks 'commons' trusts (not private, not 'government') & adjusting the system of money creation. No need to ditch capitalism, just make it our servant not our master.
 

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Stepping out on a ledge here but.....

I don't really think American auto's are any better or worse than japanese stuff these days. My wife and I have had Chrysler and GM's almost exclusively (with the exception of a rather troublesome Ford Ranger.....) and they have all been VERY RELIABLE. SO much so that our last car we purchased was a used 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix last week.



I am NOT a brand loyalist but the last GM/Chryslers we've had have been so good for the price we got them for, I just can not justify paying more for something else.

Past GM's:
1956 Pontiac 265 V8 2 spd Powerglide-25mpg! (yeah, I know it doesn't count)
1986 Pontiac 6000 2.8 V6
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix

Past Mopars:
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury ex-Police
1989 Dodge Ram D150 4x4 5.2 V8 4 spd
1990 Dodge Spirit
2001 Chysler PT Cruiser- 40+mpg!
 
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