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Discussion Starter #1
Hi!
Was just out to change oil and filter on my 790 Bonneville -04.
When pulling out the oil sump plug it felt a little "wobbly" but I didn't give it much more thought. After draining over night and about to put the plug back in it didn't really go in. Thought the threads was ruined, backed out the plug and found a large crack in the housing.

Anyone experienced this?!

720550
 

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The two most famous words in every service industry is "it broke" not I, or someone else, broke it.

If you've owned the bike since new then it's either the hack that did the PDI when new, whoever has been doing the oil changes, or you broke it.

If you bought the bike used then there's no way to lay the blame.

Stripped drain plugs and stripped or broken sump/oil pans are more common then people realize.

I'd be ordering a new sump and drain plug.

With the aluminum washer Triumphs use the plug doesn't need to be "blue" tight... that's pull on the wrench till you turn blue.

I know this SUX but the plug could have come out in the middle of a high speed sweeper...
 

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Yes, I broke it. But I'm not the hulk, that's at least 5mm aluminium I broke with my hand.

First time I change oil on this bike my self. Bought it used (and abused), then left to authorized service last year. Thought I'd do it myself this time as it only did like 200km last season as it's not my primary ride.

And yes, when seeing it I'm kind of happy to be alive as it most probably (I really think) didn't break today....
 

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I'm sure you've shown your bike more love than those before you.

These are the unseen perils of buying a used anything.

Wait till you see the price of a new sump... and don't buy a used one from a junk yard.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
They're expensive af (looking at us sites now in sweden the prices are outrageous) but still less than yearly service here in Sweden (will probably change as covid haven't made any wonders for our currency).
 

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That is strange. Normally the threads would strip if over tightened, maybe something on the road hit the plug causing a crack and it fell apart when you loosened the plug. At least that's what I'd tell myself if it were mine to avoid accepting blame. You could see if a machine shop could weld it up including the threaded hole and tap new threads for a smaller diameter drain plug.
 

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They're expensive af (looking at us sites now in sweden the prices are outrageous) but still less than yearly service here in Sweden (will probably change as covid haven't made any wonders for our currency).
Should be an easy repair if you go the right way about it. Whichever way you go, the sump will have to come off first and if not replacing, cleaned and degreased to spotless condition.

I would suggest welding - one of those baby Clarke or Seeley 130 or 150 amp MIG weld sets, with aluminium wire and argon gas should be more than adequate to do this. Or, look for a welding service, those kind of businesses don't care what it is so are unlikely to charge a massive price. Do not take it to a bike shop unless its someone you know well.

This is how I would do such a repair, being very patient and careful, especially with the welder settings. You would need a medium power setting with a slightly low wire speed, giving a soft flare.

Grind a small chamfer around the edge of the broken piece and also around the edge of the break on the sump and run a bead of weld right the way around. You can then strengthen the repair by building up layers of weld all over the area of the sump plug, making the aluminium thicker, then finishing off with a sander until smooth. On the edge of the hole, put two small tack welds to seal the edge then flatten down to the machine finish for the bolt head. It is a good idea to have the sump plug screwed in (not tightened in any way) before welding starts, to make sure the threads line up. Once the pieces are welded it can be removed and maybe a tap run down for clearance.

When the welding/finishing is done, ditch the aluminium crush washer and replace with an ordinary flat washer with a neoprene O ring under it (between the washer and sump face). This means that the sump plug does not have to be tightened beyond a pinch in the future.

Whether you broke it, or it broke naturally, it broke and that's that. However you decide to fix it, good luck.
 

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I have see this a few times. the locating taper on the sump plug (centralizes the washer ) has come in contact with the female threads on the sum and split the hole, this is usually caused by aftermarket sump plug washers being too thin.
 

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@Ripper, you know your stuff. Is this a job for a guy new to welding? I'm thinking taking it to a guy with experience would be money well spent. If you disagree, I'll thank you and go buy myself some of that gear and hope something breaks soon :)

No point worrying about blame. Don't think that's an over-torquing issue. The guy who sold it used sold it because he knew it was cracked. I have no doubt ;)
 

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@Ripper, you know your stuff. Is this a job for a guy new to welding? I'm thinking taking it to a guy with experience would be money well spent.
@BonnieBlack , This is a job that would take a little skill and patience, about 5/10 on the skill scale, but I think someone new to welding could do it adequately if they had the self confidence and someone to give good advice. You are of course correct, taking it to someone experienced would be worth the money. However, my post was designed to let the OP know how I would go about it and what is involved in doing the job. That should give him the heads up as to the difficulty or whether he would be charged appropriately by the experienced man, and pulling the curtain back to save people money is one of my priorities.

I come across this kind of thing all the time, my works has the habit of setting on welders who have in fact never touched a weld set, and I'm one of those who has to crash course them. The biggest obstacle that I find is self confidence, since once I can give them that, they find it much easier to do - and I micro manage them over how they do the tiniest thing.

Also you may know already that a few members on here have successfully completely rewired their bike, or at least large portions of it, fitted keyless ignition and following diagrams without having any previous knowledge whatsoever of electrics, under my guidance. As the say, everything is easy when you know how.
 
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Also you may know already that a few members on here have successfully completely rewired their bike, or at least large portions of it, fitted keyless ignition and following diagrams without having any previous knowledge whatsoever of electrics, under my guidance. As the say, everything is easy when you know how.
Yup, I'm one of the guys around here that has done more on my bike that I would have without some help and encouragement from others on the site. Welding has always intimidated me, I'm more of a woodworker than a metal guy, and I know just enough about welding to know there is a lot of art and skill there. But as you say, one needs to start somewhere. I'm not going to intentionally break my sump, but I am going to look for an opportunity to jump in.

Let us know how you resolve this @Ponny. And of course if you go for the welding, take pics!
 

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Welding has always intimidated me,
That, BB, is your biggest mistake. There is nothing to be intimidated about and viewing the subject with awe will prevent self confidence. Some people jump when the arc strikes up but its like motorcycling - ATGATT and you are safe.
I'm more of a woodworker than a metal guy, and I know just enough about welding to know there is a lot of art and skill there.
No, that's just the way you see it. The art bit comes later and the skill in baby steps. I know it seems silly but try this -
Point your finger at any flat surface. Hold your fingertip about 1/2 inch away from the surface. Now move your hand along, about a foot, all the while keeping the tip of your finger 1/2 inch away and the speed constant.
Can you do that? If so, you are capable of laying down a reasonable weld of a foot long. That's your starting point.
 
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That looks like a somewhat easy weld fix, i get the pleasure of doing cracked cases, sumps, heads, intake runners and so on when i have the time. Tricky part is rethreading, i would just weld it up with all new weld, then bore out and install a time sert with a sealing face so it doesnt need to be 100% square to the original face. Damn overtorquers!
 

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Let us know how you resolve this @Ponny. And of course if you go for the welding, take pics!
Thanks!
I love this forum!

I'll keep you posted. No matter the solution - there will be welding. I might be able to get a new sump but I will try to repair the old anyways as I hate scrapping things (yes I'm one of those).
 

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Hi!
Was just out to change oil and filter on my 790 Bonneville -04.
When pulling out the oil sump plug it felt a little "wobbly" but I didn't give it much more thought. After draining over night and about to put the plug back in it didn't really go in. Thought the threads was ruined, backed out the plug and found a large crack in the housing.
I did exactly the same on my ZX9R years ago, completely my fault I over tightened the sump bung and cracked the sump. Luckily I new a bloke who was a ally welding wizard and he sorted it for me. I'm always really cautious now, but I still find it nerve racking when doing oil changes.
 

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my two cents worth.....just replace the sump assy, it may be a bit expensive but it will be a perfect repair and save your piece of mind. my workshop manual is not clear but I think it can be replaced without engine removal
 

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my two cents worth.....just replace the sump assy, it may be a bit expensive but it will be a perfect repair and save your piece of mind. my workshop manual is not clear but I think it can be replaced without engine removal
I agree, going by the pic's Ponny will have to find a bloody good welder to get that fixed, there are some out there but for piece of mind I would probably change the sump as well.
 
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