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Discussion Starter #1
My sanity must be questioned for posting this, please consider that before flaming!

A couple of weeks ago, I changed the oil in my 2003 Sprint ST (8,400 miles) using Mobil 1 4T 10W40. At the same time, I added 6 oz of Prolong Engine Treatment. I did this because of an article I had read in the Nov. 2006 issue of "Racecar Engineering" magazine, which is a trade journal for the higher-end motorsports industry. According to this article, Prolong produces modifications to bearing surfaces similar to treatments requiring engine disassembly (e.g. Mikronite). Now if you think additives are so much bunk, just quit reading.

I rode the bike and thought it sounded "different" almost immediately. After about 2 miles, I was fairly sure that it was shifting more smoothly, but convinced myself it was probably "placebo effect". I did note that riding in moderately heavy city traffic (i.e. stopping and waiting at every light), I went 7 miles in upper 80-degree temperatures before the fan came on. After a total ride of about 25 miles, I was convinced that the engine was running significantly more smoothly and that shifting was substantially improved (i.e. the clunk that occurs intermittently when shifting between 1st and 2nd vanished completely).

I haven't ridden for a good two weeks, but I took the bike out again today and am now convinced that the effect isn't just my imagination. For me, the proof is that I keep having to look at the tach and speedometer to tell what gear I'm in. The engine now pulls smoothly in any gear from 2000 RPM (riding 1-up) and at 6500 RPM feels like it used to at 4500 (yes, I forgot to shift up entering the freeway). Engine temperatures still seem to be lower, but it is cooler today so I can't be certain.

I'm not recommending Prolong and should you try it, your results may vary. I know there is a lot of negative information on the Net about it (and additives in general). If you are interested in more expert opinions, the article I mentioned is available at various sites on the Net. Also note that I only have run a total of about 50 miles with Prolong in my engine and it may seize the next time I try to start it.

The bottom line for me is that the bike feels entirely differently; it has more usable power over a wider RPM band. It also runs significantly smoother and quieter, with less apparent vibration. Subjectively, the change is at least as great as when I had the TOR can installed and at $20 US, was a whole lot cheaper!
 

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Doesn't fresh oil always feel nicer?
 

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My advice.....Get that c**p out of your engine.
A little story. I harped at my best friend who believed the ads on an oil additive not to use it. He finally believed me when he had to replace the Cummins diesel in his Dodge and it didn't take long to toast it either. That, you could call, was a lesson well learned.

Nothing beats a good quality oil that meets the specs. of the manufacturer.

Don
 

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On the 'upside', even if it's bad for the bike you should be able to ride longer.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well I knew better...

...than to expect much objectivity concerning lubrication. I don't intend to defend my previous post, but I will make these clarifications:

1. Yes, "Racecar Engineering" accepts advertising, but I have never seen oil or oil additive ads in it. I'm sure that isn't because they wouldn't run them, but a magazine with a $150/year subscription price targeted at higher-end racing professionals (F1, F2, LMP1, LMP2, WTCC, etc.) doesn't represent an audience for such products.

2. Yes, clean oil always feels better, but seldom to the extent that it is perceptible in the "seat-of-your-pants".

3. With all respect to Dolson's diesel anecdote, one person's experience is as valid as another's - his was bad, mine has been good. Moreover, there was no indication he was using the same or a similar additive.

4. As for the clutch slipping, that was my primary worry as well. However Prolong doesn't work on the oil, it works on the metal parts in contact. I haven't detected any clutch slippage and, yes, I've ridden in a manner to make it evident.

5. Should my engine seize, explode, or do anything else negative that might be attributed to using an oil additive, I'll be sure to post that too.

'Nuff said!
 

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"Nuff said" I gotta laugh reading that as though you have been anointed the be it all arbiter of the subject. Kind of reminds me of someone starting a thread, then thinking that they own it. I don tink so, Lucy.
:LaughAtYou:


As to item 4 of your non-defensive clarifications, surely I need not remind you that the clutch pack contains more than fibrous components. Last time I checked, there were the steel plates and judders. Do you suppose the product differentiates these items from engine internals and doesn't "work" on them?

Speaking for myself, I do not know if this stuff is indeed the Magic Mouse Milk that Tribologists have been searching for. But, my opinion is that I kind of doubt it.

But, we are all entitled to our opinions even though some try to categorize that as being non-objective. Bottom line, you post a thread, expect opinions to follow. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I meant that I had said enough and I have. Others can form their own opinions. Since none of the responses referenced anything in the original article, here is a link to it for those who are interested:
http://issuu.com/ivan-dc/docs/www.prolong-uk.com
 

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You really should know better than to start an oil thread.

Just don't say anything about tires. The freaks will come out.
 

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Being called a "freak" ain't so bad. I've been called worse by much better. :D

Yes, anything related to oil always stirs up a hornet's nest in any forum. But, Coroja, You are not entirely correct when you state that no one has referenced anything from the original article. Take a look at the link in my earlier post and you will see it adresses some of the claims.

That magazine might be considered an authority by some, but the article read as though a copy writer produced it after reading a Prolong press release. The author implies that if a company sponsors a team, that is proof that the team uses the product. Sorry, that aint the way it works when you race for bucks. And, obviously the article author did not know, or chose to ignore the fact that Yunick's endorsement was bought and paid for. Those two examples alone cause me to wonder about the validity of the article.

But, this is all just my opinion. When it comes to oil, I always say, you paid for the bike and will pay for repairs, use what you want. :D
 

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Ooohhhh really?

You really should know better than to start an oil thread.

Just don't say anything about tires. The freaks will come out.
Well that is quite a statement my friend I hope you are going to support it with some evidence. :confused:

You may have forgotten to add a smiley though in your haste to post.:eek:

That would make me a freak too I suppose:D, seeing as I probably post more about tyres than anyone else here has, and have done more tyre reports in the tyre sticky and in the "old TRat" site "Reviews" section which now no longer exists, than anyone else (possibly because I have used more types).

OND has made a true statement about our opinions and the responses.

There are facts irrefutable and then our opinions, which are just that.

Some folks opinions may carry more weight ie. I would trust OND or CLB's opinions on tech stuff much more than mine...................I do not have their knowledge or experience.

This is a forum where we are all free to express our opinions and I do myself frequently, mine are often some what subjective, because I am not a technician, ie my opinions on tyres based on my experiences.

But if we make statements and others disagree which I might add is all perfectly normal, then we can expect others to query our comments as they seek to either disagree or get down to facts about some subject.

Carry on peeps all very good healthy banter, but I don't quite agree with your "freaks" comment about tyres chefjpd.......................................

but hey that's only my opinion on that!:D

DaveM
 

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Ok, fine but...

What effect wil Prolong treated oil have on countersteering should it spray onto the Pilot Power CT2's on a Sprint with WD-40 lubricated Pazzo pivots, K&N AF,ND 0.4mm iridium electrodes and a Royal Enfield ECU?

This is assuming of course that the sprag has not failed, the bike started to begin with, you are running mid grade fuel, any frost will be melted by the 55 Watt HID high beam, the downforce from the Zero Gravity Sport Touring screen didn't pop the front tire, Your head is small enough that your helmet can fit in the updated panniers, You installed your heated grip relay upright and zip tied the remaining ones, The chain is suitably slack (and lovingly cleaned with kerosene), your Suzuki USD's have 6 pot calipers and the clutch didn't slip.


You really should know better than to start an oil thread.

Just don't say anything about tires. The freaks will come out.
 

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Is this the stuff that cures (?) premature ejaculation-and the clutch does not slip! WOW!

A very satisfying product.
 

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Ok I’ll weigh in…..

Back when I worked at engine test lab for CSU one of my projects was a small 700cc engine that was fully automated and almost every operating parameter could be measured. You could start it run it over the internet, very cool in 1998 to 2000; funding dried up after the .com crash. Since it had a dyno and fuel flow measurement we played with snake oil engine treatments, some fancy spark plugs, magnets in the gas, someone even put on of those fancy tornado thingies in the air intake. I specifically remember putting the recommended amount of ProLong in the oil. There was very slight but measurable decreases in engine efficiency. We then drained the amount of oil equal to the ProLong added the original efficiency was resorted. The additive increased the oil level and the windage on the crank. None of these magic engine enhancers produced any measurable difference. I will admit this was far from a high performance engine; it was originally designed for a riding lawn mowers. The spark plugs might have made a difference an engine designed for performance.
 

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Some more info...

As a new member of this forum, I really should know better, and it is with some trepidation that I add some comments and info here...

here is a link to it for those who are interested:
I did read the article and here are a few comments related to the article and suplemental oil additives in general.

One of the biggest concerns with most aftermarket oil additives is that you really don't know what they are, they aren't tested in compliance with standard industry tests, and they tend to use non relevent tests and data to support their claims. This results in the buyer taking a gamble on what is going to happen. In addition, most oil additves ARE based on known chemistry, some of which are used in blending "conventional" products.

Case in point, the article discusses a test aparatus that sounds like a "Failex" tester. This is a somewhat crude test for testing "active" EP additives. The API(American Petroleum Institute) would normally use the 4 ball wear, 4 ball weld, etc tests, which ARE used to measure EP qualities of things like EP gear oils and greases, and you can see results of these tests on most major oil manufacturers data sheets on EP containing products.

My point here is that engine oils DON"T use active EP additives, like Calcium Sulphonate, Lead Nathenate or Sulphur/Phosporous. These types of products ARE found in all GL-5 Automotive gear oils (eg 80W-90) and industrial gear oils (for you UK guys, DB EP #s) and EP Greases. So...of course when you add active EP to an engine oil that doesn't have them, the "Falex" test results will "improve" drastically. This is totally NOT RELEVENT. If you see one of these tests at a trade show or otherwise, bring him a sample of a SAE 140 EP gear oil and watch the results go through the moon.

Active products tend to be "temperature" activated, which means they will react with all ferrous parts that reach the required temperature. This would be great if you could get them to react only with the parts you want, eg the cam drive/rockers etc., but you can't. Will this do any damage to your engine? The simple answer is, we don't know, since nobody has done the neccessary testing. Too many different engines, materials, etc. combinations out there. I'd be concerned about piston rings and ring groove fill in, reaction with steel clutch plates, etc.

So, why don't engine oils have active EP products...they don't need them. In the majority of engines, all the wear parts are "hydrodynamically" lubricated with a full fluid film of oil. Higher pressure wear areas are fortified with "antiwear" products, usually containing zinc and phosphorous (eg ZDDP). In our motorcycle engines, we would ideally lubricate the transmission (but not the wet clutch) with a separate gear oil, use a wet clutch type product in the clutch and primary drive, and a separate engine oil for the crankshaft and pistons (and some designs do). But, these components seem to last a very long time using the correct grade of engine oil, mostly because the pressures are not really that high.

So...does this mean that all supplemental additives are bad...of course not. Sometimes extreme conditions need something unusual. Most antiwear (AW) hydraulic oils have approx 450-600 ppm zinc, which protects most pumps up to pressures of 5000 psi or so. BUT, we have seen axial piston pumps in log processors that need more than 1000 ppm of zinc to get proper life. So...they tend to use engine oils or some transmission oils as their hydraulic fluid. If you knew what you were buying, you could add a supplemental additive with more zinc to a conventional AW fluid.

Another great real world example...let's pretend you are a maintenance guy at an old pulp mill that uses plain babbit bearings on the shafts of the pulp rolls. The system has 5000 gals of circulating oil in the basement, plumbed into each bearing. You take regular vibration and temp tests on all the bearings to keep on top of things. So...you have 3 days to run before a large shut down and one bearing is starting to vibrate and temp is rising. It's not going to last...so what do you do? Are you going to shut down production early? How do you get the temperature down and keep this bearing alive for 3 more days?

Well...how about cutting off the oil flow to the bearing, opening the top of the inspection port and pounding LARD into the bearing at regular intervals? Why lard? Animal fats are VERY slippery. Much more slippery that petroleum or synthetic hydrocarbon oils. Assuming this works, does it mean that you want to put lard or animal fat in the whole system. Of course not... but there are oils that are blended with animal fats, eg: compounded steam cylinder oils and some compounded worm gear oils.

Anyways...I hope this adds some more info to the discussion...:cool:
 

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Oops...killed the thread

Oops...I told you I should have know better...sorry for killing the thread. :D

Oldndumb - you're welcome, if I was able to provide some relevant data. So,are you one of the "old machinists" you're refering to?
 
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