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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I’m am having a hell of a time sorting an oil leak coming from the suction hose to oil block connection. It appears to me it’s leaking between the hose and pipe no matter how tight or how many clamps I fit. I even replaced the oil block assembly with a new one, fitted new gasket, hose and hose clamp but no success stopping this connection point weeping. I even tried two clamps but it continues weeping around hose end runs back down outside hose and drips off the sump plate.

Could this be pressure coming back down the suction line from worn oil pump check valves etc? Anyone else have issues with this pipe leaking what was the fix?

Thanks for any help.
 

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its not going to be a worn pump (cant be)
doesnt sound like a cracked frame from the description of where the oil leak starts and then drips off

is the hose a good sliding fit onto the oil block pipe - it needs to be "snug"

have you done the "time honoured" leak finding method ; of clean and degrease the whole area then go for a short run and check for the source of the leak -- sometimes the leak is not where you think

i have had the sump plate leak on a number of bikes needing a good clean down and re-gasket
 

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Hi rugger001, Hmmm.... This is very odd. What is the diameter of the metal pipe at junction block? As was asked this is old block at motor, not frame.

I've done feed hoses on a few without issues. I've always used either Gates 3/8 auto transmission cooler hose or 3/8 fuel injection hose. It seems readily available in AU auto parts stores. Both these are the same size as original Triumph. I've reused the original Triumph clamps or used new that are shaped like Triumph clamps. I never use the worm screw type clamps if possible. They do not pinch as evenly.

The 5/16 return metal lines use 5/16 hose. Oddly that can be not so simple as it seems the steel pipe of Triumph is slightly undersize for the 5/16 hose sold. Different manufactures of hose have different ID in real life so you may have to experiment. I find Gates fuel injection hose 5/16 tends to fit better than most. However the 3/8 size hose fits perfectly in my experience.

The 650 type old feed pipe/junction both pipes are 5/16. I seen one case where early pipes were installed on late motor & as expected the 3/8 line couldn't be clamped such to not leak.

As was suggested if you have 3/8 hose & 3/8 pipe you need some very careful exam to determine the cause as it is not common to leak here. The Gates 3/8 hose is a snug slip fit over steel pipes at both motor & frame sump.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi guys thanks for the responses.

The leak is actually at the 3/8” hose connection we’re it connects to the oil junction block. (Right hand side at underside of engine) Definitely the suction side not the return, the return 5/16” hose is oil tight and never an issue. Sump plate connection is not leaking but because opposite end leaks it weeps out under the screw clamp and dribbles back along hose then drips off at lowest point e.g. sump plate drain plug.

I will definitely try different hose, I’m currently using the cut to any length hose from Supercheap Auto here in Oz. I don’t believe it’s the best quality, but has never let me down for other situations/uses.

Very valid point though the tightness of the hose to pipe, current hose isn’t as snug as I would like but is stamped with 3/8” oil cooler hose or some such. I will have to try other clamp options as well and will investigate what the original triumph style was.

Cheers,

John.
 

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It could be as simple as a poorly made or faulty piece of hose - maybe try some from another supplier
 

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Hi ruger001, This is my bike with Gates 3/8 auto trans cooler hose & original clamp from new. Does not even seep.

This is from AU parts place. Just for the photo so you can see what it looks like. Get size to fit 3/8 hose when you buy the hose. The clamp ears should not touch when pinched tight around hose. If they do you need smaller clamp. That price seems high?? They sell Gates hose also.

https://iapaustralia.com/140472

The trans cooler hose I got is not a loose fit on pipe. It's a snug slip fit. Also make sure end of pipe is not sharp so it doesn't shave any rubber off interior of hose. Any rubber will get stuck in oil pump check ball.

Note, the rag is to catch a few drips of trans oil from the pivot shaft for shift quadrant. Has seeped here from new. That is a non sealed area from factory & often seeps. I now machine an aluminum cap & silicon it over the shaft to stop the leak. Also silicon the cotter pin. The shaft rotates with quadrant so you can't glue the shaft itself. Cardboard under chain is to catch chain oil drops. I usually lube chain before every ride.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Shall try the gates hose and some of the original style clamps this weekend. The really odd thing is it doesn’t leak a drop parked in the is area its only when the motor is running. That’s why I thought it was somehow getting pressure back in this line while engine was ticking over, its very strange to leak here in the suction side...
 

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Hi ruger001, Hmm... New information might change things. We must not jump to conclusions or guess at this point.

Kind of sounding like the real leak is from the junction block gasket area. Clean the area bone dry. I know easier said than done. Start motor & run in briefly. Then check. Some times new clean oil is very hard to spot on a small leak or seep. Take some needle nose pliers & tissue, strong torch (flash light) with on road test. Pull over often & check. Use pliers to put tissue up to pipe/gasket area. Look at tissue for signs of oil. Practice in garage with motor cold. Take a piece of plastic to lay on while your inspecting on road test if needed.

I would recommend diagnosing leak before you do any other work. Again area must be dry before the tests. I mean bone dry or you can get false results.

While riding there can be very odd wind flows around motor & you can get some surprises as to where the real source of leak is.

Don
 

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Out of interest, and parallel to this thread; are there any braided hose kits for these bikes?

I feel these pipes are a little vulnerable under the engine. Having an external braid around them would make me sleep better at night. A ruptured pipe, dumping oil in front of the rear wheel is not great at anytime but the damage potential of losing oil pressure in my engine (with only a small dim red warning light) would be very expensive to rectify (assuming all the competition parts are still available)

Cheers,
Ian
 

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Kits- I doubt it.
But braided hoses are available by the metre.

Masking tape over the area to be cut, hacksaw, remove tape. Little rubber ends/caps to tidy up the ends. Hose clips.
There is always a guy at Kempton selling this stuff. On the left as you get into the main site when using the second entrance (further from the M3)

If you can get silicone covered it may be easier to clean if you're an impulsive polisher.

Some people use a kind of spring around the oil pipes.
 

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A braided hose does nothing if the metal nipple breaks off ..................Use a proper hose, I have also used what Don mentions, no problems. And replace the hose every few years while chainging the oil.. In fact I have used regular fuel hose with no problems.....However, Here in the US they sell a hose called "Green Shield".. It's designed to limit the penentration of gas vapor and ethanol blends..I have used in two times for auto and bike oil hoses, and both times it leaked...It did not leak when used for gasoline..
 

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What nipple?
Braided hoses are best when used with AN fittings...What are you going to screw the fitting into? Other wise you are just clamping the hose to the nipples on oil junction block and sump plate...On a street bike I just don't see the advantage... How many hoses have been torn by road debris?
 

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Braided stainless looks great, when you can see it. It’s stronger, but if you ever snagged it on something while moving something is going to break, probably at one end or the other. If you’re worried about the vulnerability, make a skid plate.
 

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Hi Truckedup, I prefer automatic transmission cooler hose for oil lines, but have also used both Gates fuel injection hose & Gates carb/evap hose on Triumph 650. None of these as leaked or any obvious deterioration after 2 years. ATF hose has been on for 3 years now without issues. The difference is trans cooler & fuel injection hose has more thread imbedded in the rubber & thus stiffer & doesn't collapse/kink as easily as carb hose.

I still have original oil return hose & rocker feed hose on my '73 Tiger. Still looks good & no leaks. I replaced the suction hose to oil pump with trans cooler hose 3/8, but the original factory hose looked perfect. No deterioration inside the hose either. That was 3 years ago.


I don't know about other brands.

The only hose I've actually seen go bad & break off, is the clear braded hose with the white thread imbedded into the clear plastic. The broken hose was used for oil. Does not hold up for either oil or gas.
Don
 

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Braided hoses are best when used with AN fittings...What are you going to screw the fitting into? Other wise you are just clamping the hose to the nipples on oil junction block and sump plate...On a street bike I just don't see the advantage... How many hoses have been torn by road debris?
If you run over debris big enough to rip a hose off you're in trouble.
The discussion was to do with standard bikes and replacing the rubber oil hose.
 

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Hi Truckedup, I prefer automatic transmission cooler hose for oil lines, but have also used both Gates fuel injection hose & Gates carb/evap hose on Triumph 650. None of these as leaked or any obvious deterioration after 2 years. ATF hose has been on for 3 years now without issues. The difference is trans cooler & fuel injection hose has more thread imbedded in the rubber & thus stiffer & doesn't collapse/kink as easily as carb hose.

I still have original oil return hose & rocker feed hose on my '73 Tiger. Still looks good & no leaks. I replaced the suction hose to oil pump with trans cooler hose 3/8, but the original factory hose looked perfect. No deterioration inside the hose either. That was 3 years ago.


I don't know about other brands.

The only hose I've actually seen go bad & break off, is the clear braded hose with the white thread imbedded into the clear plastic. The broken hose was used for oil. Does not hold up for either oil or gas.
Don
Both my race Triumphs and street T140D have the auto trans cooler hose for several years..I think the"Green Shield" hose I mentioned is Gates brand and it an inner lining that for some reason allowed a bit of oil to seep past where other type hose had no problems in the same situation.

Quite a bit of auto trans cooler hose on my double engine bike.

 
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