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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all - I am thinking of buying an '07 T-100 showing a little over 500 miles on the clock. The bike has all stock equipment AFAIK. The headers have already turned blue past the second bend and are rather ugly to say the least. I've searched the forums and the consensus seems to be that Triumph TOR mufflers can be run with the standard jetting - anyone care to comment from experience? I'm thinking of running the TORs with standard jetting and removing the AI system to lower header temps. Finally, can anyone comment on replacement vs. rechroming of the factory header pipes? Does anyone know the relative costs associated with one option over the other? I've owned an '06 Scrambler and a late 90's Thunderbird, so I'm already a bit familiar with the marque. Thanks for any/all input - this is a great forum BTW!
 

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Welcome to the forum - hopefully you will post pics of your bike when you get it - sounds like someone has paid the depreciation for you - I hope they're not suffering financial woes in these times.

Anyway - I think the TORs can bve run with standard jetting, if you don't change the air intake at all. I put TORs on my bike, and upped the jetting a little bit, but have found I am running rich when I dyno'd the bike. Looks to me like if I had left the standard jets in I would have been spot on.

As for the blueing - take the AI off, and then use a chrome polish or something like that to remove the blue. They will then blue up again, but hopefully not as much with the AI off. I wouldn't mess about changing the headers or having them replated - unless you want a radical new look, like black ceramic coating or something.

I do recommend you browse the "great source of info" sticky at the top of this forum, there is a lot of info in there, but welcome aboard, and feel free to ask questions.

OH yes, by the way, TORS come with a set of 115 jets to replace the stock 110's, so the factory recommends changing them I guess. I just found that it wasn't particulalrly necessary on my bike.

My dyno chart is in the dyno run sticky up top. You can see the a/f ratio measurements there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your input and the "welcome" :)

Another thread mentioned that the 115 jets are needed with the 790 engine, but not the 865. Possibly the standard jets in the '07 will work then. I'm wanting to keep the standard "classic" chrome-header-and-peashooter- mufflers look, so coatings like Jet Hot are not on my list. I've had some luck with using Simichrome polish to remove bluing - there is just a lot of it on this particular bike :( It seems there is no real downside to removing the AI so I plan to do that no matter what. The seller of this bike has a touring bike (BMW) that he rides with his spouse so the Bonnie just sits at home under its cover - hence the desire to sell it. I think I need to rescue it.
 

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Now you mention it, I seem to recall reading the same thing about jetting the two different sizes of bikes. Certainly looking at my data the 865 didn't seem to need it.

There's no downside to removing the AI - just make sure all holes are properly plugged and sealed.

Well, it's great that you are rescuing a bike! Good for you!
 

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I wouldn't waste my time and effort trying to remove the bluing. Chances are good that much of it will come back. If it's important to you, maybe the '09 pipes are an option? I don't know if they can be retro-fitted to a pre-'09 bike. :confused:
 

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Hello all - I am thinking of buying an '07 T-100 showing a little over 500 miles on the clock. The bike has all stock equipment AFAIK. The headers have already turned blue past the second bend and are rather ugly to say the least. I've searched the forums and the consensus seems to be that Triumph TOR mufflers can be run with the standard jetting - anyone care to comment from experience? I'm thinking of running the TORs with standard jetting and removing the AI system to lower header temps. Finally, can anyone comment on replacement vs. rechroming of the factory header pipes? Does anyone know the relative costs associated with one option over the other? I've owned an '06 Scrambler and a late 90's Thunderbird, so I'm already a bit familiar with the marque. Thanks for any/all input - this is a great forum BTW!

Are you thinking of putting TORs on your bike? If so, hit me up, might be able to help you out-of course the correct main jets would also be included....
 

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An old timer's perspective on blue pipes

It seems nowadays that blueing of pipes is bad, un sightly,
The nature of chromed steel pipes is that they blue when they are heated above a certain temperature. All the bikes did it at one point is time. I think it was Honda that first fixed that by making a double wall exhaust header pipe. The large diameter outside pipe was for looks and the inside(smaller and more restrivive) took the heat. Problem solved...bluing gone.
Among my old hot shoe buddies, bluing and the lenght of blue was some what a badge of honor. It reflected that you had the run the engine Wide Open ( a long high speed run)for some period of time enought to heat the pipe a long way down. Doing the ton for a few miles was a good way to get it.
The Bonnie is a replica 60s bike so blueing it true to it's heritage.
It is true the AI likely contributes to the bluing some what. Running the engine lean or with bad timing will do it too. Removing the AI does nothing for improved preformance.
I have to admit, I still size up riders by looking at their bikes to see if the pipes are blued and the tires are worn only in the center. A rider with out blue pipes and only center tread wear is a wuss!
 

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(Quote) A rider with out blue pipes and only center tread wear is a wuss!

Or someone that enjoys riding his or her bike the way THEY want to.
John.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Point taken on the bluing being true to heritage - I just wish it wasn't so dramatic. Some nice multi-hued bluing around the first bend I can live with, but bluing all the way to the footpegs is kind of excessive IMO. I've owned 70's vintage BMW airheads so I'm familiar with bluing and single-walled headers :( I've read that Kreem thermal barrier coating on the inside of the pipes doesn't really stop the bluing either - your opinions?

Anyone wish to comment on the question of TORs running with stock jetting on the 865 motor?
 

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Staying with the stock jetting vs the larger(richer) jets provided with tht TOR will make the bike run leaner and hotter(temp vs fast). Good for milage, not so good for engine life....and it will make the pipe blue more.
 

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Depends what the actual A/F ratio is. I put TORs on my 865, and with 112.5 mains, I am still running quite rich. Stock jets are 110, 115's are supplied with TORs.

This was measured on a dyno. So - on my bike - I am quite sure I would be better off with 110s (stock) jets with TORs than the 115's supplied with the TORs. That's proper measurement, not conjectuire.

Of course - bikes vary, so what's right for my bike might not be best for someone elses. Best way to know is to get it on a dyno, or at the very least get a wideband a/f sniffer up it.

If you put the 115s in it you will be safe, but may bog down a bit over the 4000 to red line range.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks propforward, this is exactly the sort of feedback I was looking for. I've spent hours reading MANY posts and threads on this board (time very well spent IMO) and I remember reading that the 115 jets supplied with the TOR kit were necessary for the 790 motor but not for the 865. If I do a deal on the T-100 I'm looking at I may try running it with stock jetting and TORs before performing a re-jet. I've decided to defeat the AI no matter what ;)
 

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No worries wheelyneat. Check out the "dyno results" sticky at the top of the forum. You will see my dyno map in there, running 112.5 mains (actually dynojet 108s - keihin 112.5 equivalents) and that I am running an a/f ratio of about 12 - quite rich. Can't argue with scientific measurements!
 

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Blue Pipes.....

Wheely,
You asked about the Kreem product. I had the dealer coat my pipes before my '08 T-100 was even fired up. He also had performed the mods I requested: airbox, AI, Togas, rejet.
My machine runs great, looks great, except for the blueing, the pipes still blued within 30 miles of the first day. They showed me pictures of the coating in the pipes etc. So yeah, I'd say the Kreem product didn't work for me. But I have seen it here on this forum an example of beautiful chrome on the pipes that the owner when quizzed said he used the Kreem coating product. I also have seen several double walled versions of the pipes out there on the forum too. Very costly.
I did just outbid some guys on Ebay for a set of chrome heat shields that will cover the blueing on my pipes. It only goes down as far as about 1/2 way between the 1st and 2nd bends.
The heat sheilds I gather, are not produced anymore. I'll see if I like these new fangled gadgets on my bike. If not, I will be selling them. Have a look at these things:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130269840522&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123

You can also see my '08 T-100 page from the link below in my signature. (shameless plug)
 

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I too had the 7 shades of blue and purple pipes to the 2nd bend. I thought it was just ugly (screw tradition) so went the black high temp paint look. I thought they looked great, but didn't hold up, so I decided to blast the pipes down to the bare stainless (I hope this doesn't start the arguement about not being SS headers). Then I polished them. I love the way they look and what little blueing I get up near the heads only takes 5 minutes with a little metal polish and a rag and they look new again. This is all personal taste and is subject to change the next time I look at the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Surfdogx, your bike is my "target" for what I'd like to achieve with mine - it is even the same color combination. I have your webpage bookmarked and I study the pics every day - it is a gorgeous bike in every detail. Thanks for the input on the Kreem product. Griot's Garage used to sell a ceramic thermal barrier coating and I was tempted to find some of it to pour inside the pipes and coat them like the Kreem product does. Congrats on the heat shield score on eBay - let us know what you think of them. Harley of course takes this approach with their bikes, and the shielding can look good if it hugs the curves of the pipes. If I buy the T-100 I may start by taking the cheap, labor intensive approach and just spend a few hours polishing with cotton flannel and Simichrome.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wow -- they do look terrific :D Too bad they are no longer in production. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the bluing on your pipes doesn't extend downward and peek out from the ends of the shields ;)
 

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just turned 1900 miles........

on the 2008 Bike. So I think the blueing is done about all its gonna do. Don't forget I had a '07 with about 5500 miles on it and the exact same major mods. Airbox, AI, Togas, same rejet at 140 and 42. If you compare the pics on the web pages of the pipes, they were blued in a very similar fashion/pattern. AND to top it off the '08 has the Kreem job done to it.
Eerie ain't it?
The 2007 T-100 http://www.napaliprop.com/T-100.html
The Current Bike http://www.napaliprop.com/2008-T-100.html
 
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