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New to classic Triumphs - what to do on a T120R that's been stored?

35K views 360 replies 17 participants last post by  GrandPaulZ 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi,

I've just joined the forum, although I think I was actually a member back in the early noughties when I first got my 1997 Speed Triple!

Anyway - I've recently become the custodian of a 1965 Tiger 100SS and a 1969 T120R. Both of these bikes belonged to my F-i-L who sadly passed away last year, he owned them both since the early 70s. I've known the bikes for a long time, but I've never had to actually look after them. They've both been say unused for >2 years now, but prior to that they were ridden fairly often and in pretty good shape.

I'd like to get them back on the road ASAP, starting with the Bonnie. I'll try and roll them out into the sunshine and get some pics soon, but at the moment my garage is crammed full of 5 bikes and as UK members will attest the weather has been bloody awful lately!

My question is, what would you check/change on the bike as a first port of call? I'm guessing all new oil and petrol and new carb jets? What else besides the 'obvious'? I've got the original owners' and workshop manuals plus a crate full of imperial spanners now.

P.S. This particular Bonnie has high compression pistons and hot cams, plus I've never kick started a bike before. Not sure I'll ever get it going:p
 
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#2 ·
Howdy! Condolences on the passing of your Father-in-law.

No need for new carb jets, just drop the float bowls and CLEAN the jets (and carbs in general)

Yes, fresh fuel & oil, you'll need a fresh battery if it has electronic ignition; might fire right up with the old battery if it has a fat blue capacitor that's still good (disconnect the battery).

As far as kicking it, FIRST, pull in the clutch and stab the kicker till it slips free of the clutch.

Then, kick slowly till you come up to compression, then JUST past that point. Next kick it with all your weight, and ALL THE WAY DOWN. Clear your leg as soon as you get to the bottom in case of kickback (or take it like a man)
 
#3 ·
As Paul says plus, once it runs, get new tyres and tubes.
2 year layup and it should run OK without needing any dismantling. i would drop a little oil into the spark plug holes while checking the plugs.
Use a 20/50 oil for air cooled twins or V-twin oil. Ep 80/90 gear oil for transmission and if bought in 500cc bottle, that is the right amount. Drain the primary using a syringe with a piece of screenwasher tube attached and put the tube down through the filler hole. Much easier than messing around with the drain plug on that. You might like to oil cables after the initial getting it going and check all fixings. Nice pair of bikes to keep and use.
 
#4 ·
Hi Mr D,

I've a '72 T100R and a 73 TR7RV - the single carb 750 Bonnie. I am slightly mobility impaired (after spinal surgery - I didn't drop a bike - honest!) but I can kick start both of them on the centre stand. Some say not to start a bike on the stand, but I'll fall over if I don't.

As GPZ says, free the clutch and get it just past compression - that gives you a chance to get the crank spinning before the next compression. I'd also pull the plugs and with them laid on the cylinder head, but connected, kick the engine over a few times to see if you have sparks at the plugs. If not, you've some investigating to do - depends on whether you have points or electronic ignition. Have a look under the circular cover on the rh side (timing side). If you have sparks, carry on. If not, find out why and sort that first.

Once you've got sparks (given that we live in the UK), tickle both carbs until petrol runs out (and use fresh fuel too), give them full choke, and kick them over a few times with the ignition off. Then tickle again, ignition on, and proceed as per GPZ's method.

That way you should be sure of having plenty of fuel vapour in the cylinders and if they are going to fire, you should get some sign of life. Once you have them running, it's a matter of finding out what each likes for breakfast. Some like choke, some don't. Some like a twist of throttle, some don't. You just have to find out by trial and error, for both the hot and cold condition.

Good luck!
 
#5 ·
Cheers Peeps.

The T120 has Boyer (sic) ignition, my FiL has stapled the wiring diagram for it into the owners manual. Not sure about the Tiger.

What is the story with chains? Adjustment I'm assuming is just like a modern bike, but will it be sealed?

As for tyres...do most bike tyre places deal with tubes on wire spoke wheels? Or do you guys change your own?
 
#6 ·
Chains: I put the bike on the centre stand and then waggle the chain up and down in the middle of the bottom run and look for about 2" total movement - so 1" up and 1" down. If it's too slack. loosen the big nuts on the back axle and then tighten the adjuster nuts on the end of the rear forks. I also check that the rear axle is running parallel to the swinging arm spindle when I adjust the chain. Measure the distance centre to centre either side and adjust accordingly.

Boyer ignitions need good batteries to get the engine to run.

Can't help you with the tubes - I have changed my own in the past but I'm a bit old for that now. I have a tame local wheel builder who's rebuilt all my wheels and fitted tyres and tubes as needed.
 
#30 ·
Hi,

Chains:
look for about 2" total movement - so 1" up and 1" down.
Ime, this is too much for the rear chain.

Firstly, if you look at the '68 and '70 650 Owner's Handbooks, you'll see Triumph recommended:-

3/4 in. free movement with the machine on its wheels and the chain at its tightest point or 1-3/4 in. free movement with the machine on the stand and the chain at its slackest point.
... if you're surprised at the difference between the two measurements, it's because the gearbox sprocket and swinging arm pivot are some distance apart ...

Nevertheless, ime and mho, the above isn't very scientific, and the measurements aren't always actually correct ...:-

. Because the gearbox sprocket and swinging arm pivot are some distance apart, the tightest the rear chain will be is when the gearbox sprocket, swinging arm pivot and rear axle centres are all on the same plane.

. Many years ago, when Renold (BSA/Triumph's long-time chain supplier) still manufactured in GB, I 'phoned 'em and, in a lengthy conversation with one of the engineers (so long before "customer service representatives" looking up questions on a computer ... :rolleyes:), I was advised the least up-down slack a roller chain should have is the equivalent of one pitch; e.g. when the rear chain's at the aforementioned tightest, a standard 5/8" x 3/8" (aka 530) chain should still have 5/8" up-down movement.

. My T160's have compressed-air rear shocks., so I can lower the back ends to get the aforementioned alignment. However, it's a pita to do this every time I want to adjust the chain, so I did it the once to each, adjusted the rear chain as above then put the bike on its centrestand and measured the slack. (y)

. Curiously, while one T160 did come out at 1-3/4" slack on the centrestand, the other T160 came out at 1-5/8" - investigating this, seems BSA (who built all the triple engines) didn't machine the crankshaft and gearbox mainshaft centres relative to the engine mountings so, when engines are installed in frames, there can be small variations in the distance between gearbox sprocket and swinging arm pivot centres (before anyone tuts about British engineering, I've found the same changing Honda engines ...).

. Fwiw, I always know when any of my Triumphs need the rear chain adjusting, the chain bangs the guard with a loud clank ... :rolleyes: Before discovering the difference between the two T160's, I'd often wondered why one seemed to need the chain adjusting more often than the other; setting the one needing 1-5/8" slack to 1-3/4", it was already too slack ... ?

Similarly, the aforementioned two Owner's Handbooks advise the primary chain movement should be 1/2",measured through the primary filler hole. Fwiw, I treat this as a 'down' measurement only, simply because it's a pita to both pull the chain up and measure the movement accurately. Otoh, 'down' only, I just push it down with steel ruler, measuring movement against the top of the filler hole. (y)

Not originally. Triumph wasn't generous with fresh air around the final-drive chain; allegedly, there is one make of 530 sealed chain that'll still fit around the gearbox sprocket but most people that are bothered seem to have sprockets machined to 1/4" thick and use a 520 sealed chain.

Otoh, many of owners who aren't bothered - don't put enough miles on a bike to warrant a sealed chain - seem to be happy with the likes of Wurth 'dry' lube on an unsealed chain?

I'm a fan unsealed chain and Scottoilers. (y)

A lot of bike tyre people will fit tubes.
+1.

Btw, risking stating the obvious, don't use the recommended tyre pressures in those Owner's Handbooks; use modern pressures for modern tyres.

Front forks seem to have a clunk when you bounce on the front brake.
The other thing it could be is the (steering) head bearings need some adjusting?

When it was restored in the 1990's I think the general idea was that she was close to how my FiL first acquired it in '72. My FiL and my wife's uncle (the two guys who've owned it) were both "Engine Men" in the RAF and were not afraid of a bit of customisation.
Looks very nicely done. (y) :)

Hth.

Regards,
 
#7 ·
A lot of bike tyre people will fit tubes. (It's a knack that isn't hard to acquire but best done when it's warm) but I have found that most of them won't be able to balance a wheel with a spindle in it.
DIY balance is simple - just use the bike and use a bit of chalk to find any consistent heavy spot
 
#8 ·
I always fit my own tyres and tubes and it does require a bit of strength and i have my wife helping with the levers. I use 5 long tyre levers on a normal tyre change on 18 and 19 inch tyres. This week i changed a tubeless scooter tyre and that was quite a hard job.
I do have a good local tyre fitting repair shop nearby but i just like doing my own.
Exceptions being the 240 width new bike tyres on my big bikes. i take the wheel into a shop.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hi Mr Dazzle,
Sorry to hear about your father in law, I think it is wonderful that you are preserving his legacy.

You would do well to search for posts by @StuartMac containing "waking the sleeping beast"

Do not worry about kick starting, it is more technique than strength and you have already been put on the right track. I have a 900cc converted Triumph with High compression, I am 55 kg wet (120lb), I have to jump a little to get momentum but can start it easily hot or cold..
Kickstarting is just cool, that’s why they pretend to kickstart moderrn Jap multis in the movies.

Triumphs are renowned for being easy 1 kick starters; (unless someone is watching!)

you need to be careful, old Triumphs have a way of stealing your heart ?

regards
Peg
 
#20 ·
Hi,

:( I was also sorry to read about your father-in-law's passing.

search for posts by @StuartMac containing "waking the sleeping beast"
Also sorry for being late to the party here - Waking The Sleeping Beast. It was originally written for triple owners; much of the advice can be applied to twins, except:-

. because twin crankcases have a smaller volume than triples', I reduce the oil quantity in to ~1 pint;

. only on very late '69 or later twins can the oil go into the crankcase through the primary as described; earlier twins, it needs to go in either through the timing hole or a rocker-box and down the pushtod tube.

was about 50 kicks to get it running
You're depressing both tickler buttons 'til fuel just starts to run out?

I also open the throttle just a tiny bit when electric- or kick-starting. However, if kicking, I don't open the throttle any more as I kick - Amals don't have accelerator pumps.

If it doesn't start within a few kicks, I check if the ticklers need depressing again to restore the high fuel level.

Otoh, if it doesn't start within a few kicks after that, the mixture might then be over-rich ... :rolleyes: I kick it a few times with WOT and then start again with the tickler buttons ...

If the bike hasn't been used for a while (ime much less than two years), they can take a few more kicks to start ... :whistle:

She wouldn't idle without a bit of throttle.
They don't when cold; particularly contemporary Japanese bikes had something operated by the choke that either also raised the slide(s) or opened the butterfly/ies.

Left spark plug is pretty black, but not hugely clogged up. Right is dark but not as much.
If you haven't discovered it already, be aware the Amal "choke" (air) lever works the opposite way from Japanese (most other?) bikes' - slack wire is air slides down ("choke on"), tight wire is air slides up ("choke off").

Real wheel goes 'round even in nuetral. You can hold it on the brake with the engine still running.
Yep, the engine always spins the primary, which'll spin the gearbox in neutral, the oil in the gearbox will cause the driven gears to spin in neutral.

The first time you engage first gear, I advise doing it with the bike on the centrestand. Triumph clutch plates have a habit of sticking when left for some time. The first time you engage first gear, if the rear wheel rotates in time with the engine pulses, and the engine stalls when you try to hold it on the brake, the clutch plates are stuck even if you pull in the clutch lever. Simple to fix. (y)

The amps shown on the dials flap around all over the place.
'Fraid "They All Do That, Sir" ... Neither use nor ornament on a twin (or single). :(

not sure what the ignition is. It's got a clearly modern black box by the battery and the Zener diode doesn't appear to be connected.
Pictures? If the Zener isn't connected, could be the bike also has a combined regulator/rectifier, that also replaced the original separate rectifier.

Or what you're thinking is electronic ignition is the reg./rec.? The roughly-heart-shaped cover over the right-hand side (looking forward) of the crankcase, see the small circular cover attached by two screws? If you remove them, either two sets of points or an electronic ignition trigger will be underneath. Picture?

If there are points under that circular cover, and the Zener is disconnected, more likely the "black box by the battery" is a reg./rec. Either way, ignition and battery-charging (reg./rec.) are two separate systems.

Front forks seem to have a clunk when you bounce on the front brake.
Try draining the oil in the legs, that'll show if there's any in there? Or you might need to take the forks apart to check a couple of things; there's a part that, if it's fitted upside-down, causes the symptom you've described. :(

Brake lever comes back to the
throttle cable.
8" twin leading shoe.
Easy to adjust with the factory Third Hand tool :rolleyes: ... or an assistant. ;)

Hth.

Regards,
 
#10 ·
Weather forecast for this weekend is sunny, so I will try and get them out to have a proper look. They arrived on a van two weeks ago in the pouring rain and I've not had a chance to see them since.

You're right about them charming people though. FiL owned the Bonnie since '72 and it was literally the first thing mentioned is his will:D I hadn't seen it properly for a number of years until we loaded it onto a van, I forgot how pretty a bike she is.
 
#16 ·
Managed to start her up yesterday(y).

I followed the above advice about sparks and method. I think my technique needs a little work, was about 50 kicks to get it running:D You really have to mean it.

I turned the fuel taps off and let it run to cut out, mostly because that's what my FiL always did. Is that right?

Initial observations...

  • She wouldn't idle without a bit of throttle.
  • Left spark plug is pretty black, but not hugely clogged up. Right is dark but not as much.
  • Real wheel goes 'round even in nuetral. You can hold it on the brake with the engine still running.
  • The amps shown on the dials flap around all over the place. It shows 0 (needle straight up) with ignition on, then fluctuates quickly when running. Didn't get a chance to measure independently with my multimeter.
  • I'm not sure what the ignition is. It's got a clearly modern black box by the battery and the Zener diode doesn't appear to be connected.
  • Front forks seem to have a clunk when you bounce on the front brake.
  • Brake lever comes back to the bar. Well technically not the bar, it hits the throttle cable.
All in all I don't think I discovered any disasters:D


 
#22 ·
Brake lever comes back to the bar. Well technically not the bar, it hits the throttle cable.
Looks beautiful! Assuming that’s the 8” TLS brake fitted mine feels very spongy at standstill and I can get the lever back to the ‘bars. Opinion is that aftermarket cables incorporating the brake light switch can be the cause, possibly but I don’t know if yours has a front brake switch. Once my bike is being ridden though the brake becomes much firmer and I’d be either over the handlebars or on my backside in the road way before the lever was pulled back that far. Try riding it carefully first.

Adjusting this brake properly involves wheel/brake plate removal, marking the shoes with chalk or something similar then refitting the brake plate and testing, adjusting & dismantling until both shoes contact the drum at the same time and the chalk is rubbed off. A quicker way to get reasonable adjustment with the wheel on the bike is to;

Remove the split pin securing the pivot pin to the rearmost brake cam lever, pop out the pivot pin and release the adjusting rod assembly. This will give you a brake lever operating the front cam lever and one brake shoe only.

Operate the front brake until the one shoe contacts the drum and secure the brake lever, I use a releasable cable tie.

Then operate the rear brake cam lever using a spanner on the securing nut until it too contacts the brake drum. At the same time offer up the adjusting rod, you want the hole at the rear of the rod to line up with the hole in the rear brake cam lever.

Adjust the threaded section at the front of the rod until the holes line up and put it all back together.

I’ve used the above method to good effect though it can be trial and error, it’s not always easy to be sure that both shoes are in contact with the drum under the same pressure. Mine needed a few adjustments until I was happy with the brake operation riding the bike, you should know when you get it right.
 
#17 ·
Well done! That. Looks. Gorgeous. Clearly a much-loved bike. I think it's missing the chrome trim disc off this side of the front wheel, but that's trivial.

They do need a good prod, and you have to commit, but once you get the knack it'll be easy, 2 or 3 kicks max. If it takes more, there's something wrong. Ignore the plugs for now until you have some miles on it. Running the carbs dry is good, as it reduces the potential for the residual fuel to evaporate in the carbs and clog up the jets, particularly the pilot jet. Modern fuels don't get on with old bikes so running it dry is good, but a pain. If the tank's not been epoxy lined, don't leave fuel in it too long or over the winter unused. It's the ethanol. If you use 97 octane, AIUI there's less or no ethanol in that atm, but I hear they are going to increase the ethanol content of all fuels.

They often don't idle well until they're warm, I'd aim for not less than 1000 rpm, maybe 1200.

My rear wheels spin idly too - nothing to worry about. The ammeters are useless, mine did that too. If the Zener's not connected it's probably got a black box rectifier/regulator to manage the AC volts from the alternator and convert those to DC for charging the battery etc

Forks maybe need oil? Looking at the overall condition I'd be surprised if there was a problem with the forks - your FiL clearly loved that bike.

Front brake cable needs taking up a bit maybe? If its a twin leading shoe, (2 levers on the drum connected by a rod) they can take a bit of setting up, but when you get it right, they are very good indeed.

I'd be very proud of that bike, join the Owners Club and show it off. And no VED or MOT either.

Others will be along to drool shortly........
 
#18 ·
It's 8" twin leading shoe. They work when you're pushing the bike around but that's obviously a long way from actually riding.

As you will see from the photo I have a few bikes and not much garage!:p I need to sell that VFR and tidy up to get some space for working on the Triumphs. Then I can focus on actually getting out on the Bonnie.
 
#19 ·
Looks like cable adjustment then. There's guidance on the forums for adjusting twin leading shoe brakes if you need it - basically, they both have to work at the same time and there's adjustment on the connecting rod for that.

The TLS will never be as good as a modern disc with ABS etc, but it's a 50 year old bike. And they are simple to work on. No diagnostics, no ECU to fool you. Just lawnmower simple mechanicals and a few wires. If I can strip and re-build them, anyone can.

You'll need some neck oil too. For the grin. And nodding at other riders who recognise what they see. Ride it like it's a 50 year old bike, listen for the exhaust note bouncing back off walls and bridge parapets, and keep an eye out for old blokes like me watching you ride past. Get a Barbour jacket and an open face helmet, and enjoy. Magic. Go and ride it.
 
#21 ·
I forgot. When its running, take the oil tank cap off and check for oil coming back to the tank. It might only be a few spurts at a time, but that'll show that the scavenge side of the oil pump is picking up oil from the bottom of the crankcase and sending it back to the tank and the rocker shafts too. If the scavenge isn't working (stuck valve in the pump maybe - easy to fix) then the oil level in the tank will go down as it fills up the crankcase ?
 
#23 · (Edited)
I'll try and get some pics...

I forgot to mention the sound. Jesus she's loud! Bear in mind my old bike was a 996 on 50mm 'silencers' and I still have a S'Triple on the Triumph noisy can, but even compared to them this bike is loud.

I was expecting a boring parallel twin sound like a CB250. Not so, she sounds amazing. Exactly the sound I picture in my head for an old 60s race vehicle. And the smell....
 
#28 ·
Hi,

Jesus she's loud!
Thankfully Brit twins never sounded as bad as CB250's in any of the latter's incarnations. However, your bike's 'silencers' are aftermarket, known as "US5" after their code in certainly the various 1970's retailers catalogues.

She was bought new for racing in '69
Hmmm ... who did the customising, your FIL or the seller? Don't get me wrong, it's very well done, but it was never raced like that ... ;)

hex bolt here is blanking off what would be the "choke"?
when I stopped the engine you could clearly smell petrol around the trumpets.
guessing that's normal?
(y) (y) :)

black box
reg/rec?
(y) Btw, apologies for the cock-up suggesting looking under the points cover, :oops: I should've realised you'd have to remove the lower part of the fairing.

took the main fuse out because my FiL always did when parking it.
Basic anti-theft when he was out? Parked in the garage, if a bike was fitted with a capacitor across the battery and the capacitor failed, it'd drain the battery. (n)

Lever travel....
throttle cable housing can be rotated around 90' so it points straight down and doesn't clash with the brake?
It can but it shouldn't matter. Appears to be a standard throttle, also fitted '71-on with those handlebar switch clusters originally, and there are many pictures of the throttle secured so the cable(s) emerge(s) pointing forward over the top of the brake lever.

Front brake
Essentially '69-'74; if the black paint is original, it's '71-'74.

Try the brake adjustment as @Rusty1 suggested? Or I simply inveigle someone else in the house to hold the spanners pushing the brake shoes against the drum (teenagers have to be useful for something :sneaky:) while I adjust the rod between the levers.

switches on both brakes.
The one that causes most angst among Triumph owners is the fat cylinder (with two wires attached?) in the front brake cable. Personally, I don't subscribe to the view the switch is a problem - my T150 has one, the bike's something like 100 lbs. heavier than a twin ... It's got a Venhill cable; if I bought another, I'd compare inner and outer closely to ensure neither on the new cable were of lower quality than the old.

handlebar switches
period correct?
Depending on their configuration, they're:-

. either '71-to-late-'72 - 2-position dipswitch up-down paddle on the left;

. or late-'72-to-'75 - dipswitch paddle on the right;

. the cluster with the 3-position indicators paddle is the same.

At the moment they just control the indicators
and
horn
Three of the buttons are push-to-make; originally, they controlled horn (Purple/Black wire), headlamp flash (Blue/White wire) and electric-start (yes, really; :) White/Red wire).

The fourth button is push-to-break, for killing the engine. If the bike does have an (Boyer-Bransden?) electronic ignition, the button White/Yellow wire should be connected to the B-B "Transistor Box" White wire. Otoh, if the bike still has points ignition, the White/Yellow wire should be connected to the "-" terminal of each ignition coil.

The plain White wires from each button should be connected to the ignition switch so they're isolated (from the battery) when the switch is 'off'. Absent an electric starter, :cool:, I connect the White/Red wire to the other Blue/White wires (headlamp main beam) so there's a headlamp flash button in both clusters?

handlebar switches necessary
Up to you. Without indicators in '69, the standard handlebar switch was a combined horn and dipswitch on the left handlebar. However, it attached with screws into tapped holes in the 'bar; because of the fairing, as your bike has either standard 'UK' 'bars upside-down or different 'bars, that plus the indicators might've been the reason the later clusters were used?

Optional in '69 was a separate push-to-break button, usually clamped around the right-bar close to the throttle.

completely pointless horn
As a past dispatch rider and denizen of the south-east and the M25 ... Loud Pipes Do Not Save Lives ... But Loud Horns Do. (y)

Hth.

Regards,
 
#25 · (Edited)
A little bit more history about this bike....

She was bought new for racing in '69 (not by my FiL). My FiL was the first road owner in '72, he bought it from Revitts (sic) in Ipswich for the princely sum of £375 plus £8 road tax. We still have the original receipt, made out to his address in RAF Wattisham:D At the time £375 was several month's wages and my MiL was not happy!

My FiL always insured it as standard unmodified, but the only time it turned a wheel in standard trim was when it rolled off the Triumph assembly line. The original racer owner put higher compression pistons, hotter cams and a close ratio 'box on it. AFAIK they're all still there, but the engine has been fully rebuilt at least twice....one day I'll get inside and have a look.

Some more pics...



Yes I did tickle the carbs until fuel dribbled out around the bottom of the tickler. Am I right in saying the hex bolt here is blanking off what would be the "choke"? Also...when I stopped the engine you could clearly smell petrol around the trumpets. Given the simplicity of these carbs I'm guessing that's normal?

This is the black box in question (not ignition I know). From the label I assume this is a reg/rec? BTW i took the main fuse out because my FiL always did when parking it. No idea if that's necessary!



Lever travel....



I don't normally hold the bar like that;) Am I right in saying the throttle cable housing can be rotated around 90' so it points straight down and doesn't clash with the brake? She does have brake switches on both brakes.

Are the handlebar switches necessary/period correct? At the moment they just control the indicators (totally out of place 90s ones!) and completely pointless horn you can't hear over the exhaust.



Front brake (sorry about the angle, space is a bit tight in the garage!). As an aside, I'm very much liking the chrome which is genuine chrome plated steel and not silver plastic. Looks a million times better.
 
#26 ·
The hex bolt is where the choke cable would be - if you had to kick it 50 times it would probably like a bit of choke! Easily retro-fitted.

Yes, that's a reg/rec I think. Not the ignition unit. They are still available new. The twist grip can be rotated to where you want the throttle cable to run - there are 2 screws holding the twist grip together. Simples.

If you have a matched pair of those handlebar switches, or even if you only have 1, hang on to them. They are a bit later ('72 ish I think) but they are unobtainable now. I had to source one from an autojumble and I was very pleased to find it. Think rocking horse manure. They can be a bit temperamental but you can get the repair kits.

That's a 74 TLS front brake if the black paint is original. They fitted them from 68 I think, but the black paint came in in 74 ish. Stuart will know.

That's a very nice bike. Very nice. More pics would be nice too!
 
#29 ·
It was (or at least, the story goes) bought as a 'crate bike' and immediately modified for racing by the original owner.

Through it's life it's had top boxes, panniers, side cars, single and double pegs, indicators, no indicators.....you get the idea! We have pictures of this bike where I didn't even realise it was the same bike. When it was restored in the 1990's I think the general idea was that she was close to how my FiL first acquired it in '72. My FiL and my wife's uncle (the two guys who've owned it) were both "Engine Men" in the RAF and were not afraid of a bit of customisation.

I know for a fact that it has the Boyer ignition because my wife's uncle (who was an RAC rescue driver at the time) fitted it, he told me all about it.
 
#31 · (Edited)
From reading the workshop manual it sounds like the chain is supposed to have an OEM oil drip lubrication anyway? Like a scottoiler basically. Or is that the primary drive? Maybe I should read it again:p

I'm suprised you can't buy 'replica' sprockets that take a modern 520 X-ring sealed chain.

Front fork clunk is at the limit of achievable manual bounce, if that makes sense. Obviosuly I can't get the forks to fully bottom out just bouncing it, but when I do bounce it the clunk feels like it happens right at the point of maximum compression.
 
#33 ·
Hi,

From reading the workshop manual it sounds like the chain is supposed to have an OEM oil drip lubrication anyway? Like a scottoiler basically.
Nothing like a Scottoiler, trust me (n) ... If nothing else, hot engine oil is brilliant for lubing an engine. utterly useless as chain lube. (n) However, the oem oil leak is brilliant at stopping the back of the bike and the pillion going rusty. :cool:

suprised you can't buy 'replica' sprockets that take a modern 520 X-ring sealed chain.
No surprise, for several reasons:-

. As I say, far-and-away the vast majority of old bike owners simply don't do the miles. If a bog-standard chain is shagged in 5,000 miles, that can be five years plus for very many owners.

. Some triple owners are using 520 '-ring' chains. If you can find a triple specialist with stock, gearbox sprocket will fit your 650, albeit you'd have to want 19T. To my certain knowledge, unit 650's had at least four different rear sprocket mountings; triples had three, only two of which are common to the 650; afaik, only one mounting (conical hub) is made commercially occasionally in 520.

. The trade considers twin owners 'cheap'; i.e. the vast majority will go for the cheapest option every time. So anyone commissioning non-standard 520 sprockets in commercial quantities for all the 650 options is going to wait a very long time to get his money back. :(

Hth.

Regards,
 
#32 ·
That exhaust note. You have the upswept tulip pipes as i have. These are the loudest silencers i have ever fitted. They also work much better than most others at speeds over 80mph. Out of 7 systems i have fitted, these ones appear to let the engine breathe out better. Removing the baffles actually slows the bike down at the lower engine speeds but it is very loud with baffles. I keep mine in.
Regarding chains, if you are a leisure rider, a normal road bike chain will be good enough and lube it after each ride when the chain is warm.
 

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#34 ·
I have still not had a chance to ride this bike, given the current situation in the UK I am not sure when I will!

In the meantime I've slowly been doing some jobs on it in preparation for my first ride.

  • I changed the gearbox oil, the old stuff was black and the new stuff ain't. I went with good old fashioned EP90. The bottle came with in inbuilt spout but unfortunately the oil is about the viscosity of honey so it took ages to dispense 500cc.:D
  • I've been polishing water spots off all the chrome, unfortunately I only had a bit of Autosol left and I can't buy more:p
  • Cleaned and gapped the plugs.
  • Discovered the cubby hole and the tool kit my FiL left...


- Also discovered she's not a '69 depsite what my FiL (and the V5!) always said. Serial number starts "ND" which means October 1970 Or is that October 69? The engine and frame match.
 
#40 ·
Hi,

not a '69 depsite what my FiL (and the V5!) always said. Serial number starts "ND" which means October 1970 Or is that October 69?
It means made in the MODEL YEAR 1970, which will be October 69.
To be clear:-

. it's the "D" in "ND" that indicates the 1970 Model Year;

. while "N" indicates October, the '70 model year is one of those longer than twelve months, so it could indicate calendar October 1970 or calendar October 1969;

. the difference would be the first figure of the serial number - October 1970 would start with a "6", October 1969 probably with a "3".

. The V5 only has the "Date of First Registration", this has nothing to do with the "model year". If the V5 DoFR says "1969", coupled with "ND" in the engine and frame number, it's likely an early '70 model year bike, with a 30000-ish serial number, FIrst Registered in late calendar 1969?

As @Streetiger posted:-

. in the OP's post #25, the lowest image shows the '70 "three bolt plate" front engine mounting;

. the same post's upper image appears to show the cast primary breather 'elbow'(?);

. the image in the OP's post #16 shows a '70 rear grabrail; the image doesn't show the primary breather tube clipped around the edge of the rear mudguard/fender but the OP might confirm it'd been routed elsewhere for racing?

Hth.

Regards,
 
#35 ·
It means made in the MODEL YEAR 1970, which will be October 69.

Next gear oil change, fill a deep pan with hot water and stick the oil container in it. Once warmed up, it will pour easier. You'll also waste less as when pouring cold, the overflow is delayed and you put too much in before realising
 
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