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Could be the pistons were changed without splitting the cases, so "never opened" (the bottom end)...
my t140 restoration
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Yes, that's a possibility too G.P.
It certainly justifies my decision to do a full strip down, just finding a few wee things that indicates a p.o tinkering within !.
Plan as stated is to get the cases split this weekend, and then strip everything off the barrels. I don't have any decent measuring equipment, so I will take them to a recommended engineering shop and let them decide whether the current bore is ok, or whether it needs to be re- bored. They have been recommended by a friend who has used them. From there, I will know what oversize to order and some Bling from M.A.P in regards to con rods as well.
Little steps at the minute, just want to be sure to do this properly...
Col
It certainly justifies my decision to do a full strip down, just finding a few wee things that indicates a p.o tinkering within !.
Plan as stated is to get the cases split this weekend, and then strip everything off the barrels. I don't have any decent measuring equipment, so I will take them to a recommended engineering shop and let them decide whether the current bore is ok, or whether it needs to be re- bored. They have been recommended by a friend who has used them. From there, I will know what oversize to order and some Bling from M.A.P in regards to con rods as well.
Little steps at the minute, just want to be sure to do this properly...
Col
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1,764 Posts
Hi Col.
Nice work. :thumb
You're moving along at a rapid pace with the engine rebuild.
I'm still in the "getting my head around it" phase. :frown2:
Haven't heard of JCC or JCC Pistons.
Are they OK to have?
Cheers.
Rod
Nice work. :thumb
You're moving along at a rapid pace with the engine rebuild.
I'm still in the "getting my head around it" phase. :frown2:
Haven't heard of JCC or JCC Pistons.
Are they OK to have?
Cheers.
Rod
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14,239 Posts
JCC make pistons for Emgo, Cycle Craft, and others. They also own the Hepolite name (I believe). Very good aftermarket pistons.
Well my crank cases gave birth to a heavy crankshaft.
Still having an issue with getting the crankshaft out of the timing side bearing, will have to apply some heat tomorrow and give it another go.
Interestingly, after removing the camshafts, on the drive side at the end of the bush, looked as though there was a metal party going down there below ! very shiny, looked at the end of the cam shaft and the slot looked a tad worse for wear.
On closer inspection, being my finger down the hole, lots of smallish casing swarf stuck to the end ???
Then, carefully looking over everything, found the remains of the old "tooth" of the rev counter drive neatly sitting on the crankshaft.
Well, pretty lucky in 9 odd years and about 4-6 ooo mile, it never caused an issue. Found quite a bit of shiny mangled pieces of the casing throughout as well. So at some stage, for whatever reason, its snapped off and the P/O has just screwed a new one in.
Photos are a bit hard to see below the cam bush the damage it caused but it did groove out a bit of a mess.
Col
Still having an issue with getting the crankshaft out of the timing side bearing, will have to apply some heat tomorrow and give it another go.
Interestingly, after removing the camshafts, on the drive side at the end of the bush, looked as though there was a metal party going down there below ! very shiny, looked at the end of the cam shaft and the slot looked a tad worse for wear.
On closer inspection, being my finger down the hole, lots of smallish casing swarf stuck to the end ???
Then, carefully looking over everything, found the remains of the old "tooth" of the rev counter drive neatly sitting on the crankshaft.
Well, pretty lucky in 9 odd years and about 4-6 ooo mile, it never caused an issue. Found quite a bit of shiny mangled pieces of the casing throughout as well. So at some stage, for whatever reason, its snapped off and the P/O has just screwed a new one in.
Photos are a bit hard to see below the cam bush the damage it caused but it did groove out a bit of a mess.
Col
Attachments
Had a good morning.
Managed, with a bit of difficulty to finally remove the crankshaft from the timing side bearing ( thankyou Stephen)
heated her up to spit bubble level, didn't drop out,,,made up a drift, that wouldn't budge it, so flipped it over and with oven gloves held on to the crank and gently tapped the casing all round lightly and 5 minutes or so saw it part ways,, relief !.
Got the tappet guide blocks out, cleaned and bagged, removed all the cylinder studs, so its ready for the engineer to be dropped off in a week or two.
Still have to remove one con rod, then a lot of cleaning ahead of me, followed by removing bearings etc from the casings...
col
Managed, with a bit of difficulty to finally remove the crankshaft from the timing side bearing ( thankyou Stephen)
heated her up to spit bubble level, didn't drop out,,,made up a drift, that wouldn't budge it, so flipped it over and with oven gloves held on to the crank and gently tapped the casing all round lightly and 5 minutes or so saw it part ways,, relief !.
Got the tappet guide blocks out, cleaned and bagged, removed all the cylinder studs, so its ready for the engineer to be dropped off in a week or two.
Still have to remove one con rod, then a lot of cleaning ahead of me, followed by removing bearings etc from the casings...
col
Attachments
Now comes the messy part,, scrubbing those cases and getting them nice and clean.
Will heat up the cases this weekend and remove all that needs removing, bearings shells etc
A bit of elbow grease and they come up ok. who needs to vapour blast !!!.
Barrels to engineer next week to inspect what oversize is needed, then a nice wee order into MAP for some goodies.
some progress at least
Col
Will heat up the cases this weekend and remove all that needs removing, bearings shells etc
A bit of elbow grease and they come up ok. who needs to vapour blast !!!.
Barrels to engineer next week to inspect what oversize is needed, then a nice wee order into MAP for some goodies.
some progress at least
Col
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Looking good, Col.Handy stuff, elbow grease !
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I use 33/33/34 Simple Green/Water/Elbow grease. It works great with a stiff plastic brush, after you scrape the buildup off first.
Thanks Stephen and G.P.
I scrubbed it with one of those nylon brushes in Kero, then hot soapy water.
Pretty happy with result, but once I heat them up and remove all that needs to be, I'll re do it and get where I've missed.
Overall pretty happy though.
cheers
Col
I scrubbed it with one of those nylon brushes in Kero, then hot soapy water.
Pretty happy with result, but once I heat them up and remove all that needs to be, I'll re do it and get where I've missed.
Overall pretty happy though.
cheers
Col
Well, the last wee job to be removed from my cases, was the sump plug.
The head was completely burred when I bought the bike, so I left it.
This sucker took 3 hours to remove, had to heat it cheery hot with propane, after even an easy out wouldn't budge it.
Once it was finally removed and the profanities were said and done.............
I'm picking someone butchered the hell out of removing it, then cross threaded a new one in, with heaps of black unknown gunk.
I would then say, another unsuspecting owner, tried in vein to remove the new looking said sump plug, only to completely burr the head. Can not believe the "butchery and lack of care" that someone took.
Will either use a thread file or maybe obtain a unf tap and repair the face up.
Col
The head was completely burred when I bought the bike, so I left it.
This sucker took 3 hours to remove, had to heat it cheery hot with propane, after even an easy out wouldn't budge it.
Once it was finally removed and the profanities were said and done.............
I'm picking someone butchered the hell out of removing it, then cross threaded a new one in, with heaps of black unknown gunk.
I would then say, another unsuspecting owner, tried in vein to remove the new looking said sump plug, only to completely burr the head. Can not believe the "butchery and lack of care" that someone took.
Will either use a thread file or maybe obtain a unf tap and repair the face up.
Col
Attachments
In following up on that,
I do have to say, that this was the only piece of butchery I've found on this strip down, so I'm probably quite lucky.
I have time to play so to speak, before the bottom end gets put back together, so it wont hold me up.
Barrels go to the engineer next week, for a condition report and measuring, which will tell me what oversize pistons to order.
I am replacing everything from gearbox needle bearings through to crank bearings, don't want to have to split the cases again, so money well spent I believe.
MAP con rods about to be ordered, which should arrive by the time the barrels have been done, which will mean I can get the crank crack tested and balanced etc.
I'm leaving the head at the minute until I've re assembled the cases, to much going on in my head with this to confuse it more.....
Col
I do have to say, that this was the only piece of butchery I've found on this strip down, so I'm probably quite lucky.
I have time to play so to speak, before the bottom end gets put back together, so it wont hold me up.
Barrels go to the engineer next week, for a condition report and measuring, which will tell me what oversize pistons to order.
I am replacing everything from gearbox needle bearings through to crank bearings, don't want to have to split the cases again, so money well spent I believe.
MAP con rods about to be ordered, which should arrive by the time the barrels have been done, which will mean I can get the crank crack tested and balanced etc.
I'm leaving the head at the minute until I've re assembled the cases, to much going on in my head with this to confuse it more.....
Col
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11,961 Posts
Hi Col,
Also, it'd be worth checking the threadform on the new plug closely. Guy called Dave Madigan, who posts on TOL and BritBike and makes special parts for triples and twins, found an original Triumph-manufactured part with a Unified tpi but with the angle cut at a BSF-/BSW-type 55 degrees.
arn If a new sump plug has this and you file the thread in the case to Unified 60 degrees, you'll be resorting to "heaps of black unknown gunk" ... :gah
Also if the engineer doing the barrels takes a look at it, he might be able to weld and clean up the seal face easily for a better oil seal?
Hth.
Regards,
I'd buy the new sump plug first, measure thread tpi and diameter on that before deciding what to do about the thread in the case - without being able to check a plug, it might be UNC, or Triumph used both UNS (Unified Special) and UNCP (Unified Constant Pitch) when a large diameter required a finer thread, or Triumph weren't even averse to retaining the odd British Standard (BSF?) thread on certain components ... :whistle
Also, it'd be worth checking the threadform on the new plug closely. Guy called Dave Madigan, who posts on TOL and BritBike and makes special parts for triples and twins, found an original Triumph-manufactured part with a Unified tpi but with the angle cut at a BSF-/BSW-type 55 degrees.
arn If a new sump plug has this and you file the thread in the case to Unified 60 degrees, you'll be resorting to "heaps of black unknown gunk" ... :gahAlso if the engineer doing the barrels takes a look at it, he might be able to weld and clean up the seal face easily for a better oil seal?
Hth.
Regards,
Hi Stuart,
Yes I've ordered a new sump plug, The seller said it was unf.
I've found that its a 1''16 tpi and unf thread, but, I'll wait till its in my hot hand and check it out.
Good point with regard to the engineer doing my barrels, I have to ring him tomorrow to confirm a drop off time, so I might take the opportunity to speak with him about it.
It was frustrating to find, but, things could have been a lot worse, in some respect, with the rest of the engine, so I say glass half full.
Thanks Stuart, I'll post back when I have more info on the thread or the engineer.
Col
Yes I've ordered a new sump plug, The seller said it was unf.
I've found that its a 1''16 tpi and unf thread, but, I'll wait till its in my hot hand and check it out.
Good point with regard to the engineer doing my barrels, I have to ring him tomorrow to confirm a drop off time, so I might take the opportunity to speak with him about it.
It was frustrating to find, but, things could have been a lot worse, in some respect, with the rest of the engine, so I say glass half full.
Thanks Stuart, I'll post back when I have more info on the thread or the engineer.
Col
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11,961 Posts
Hi Col,
1"UNF is 12 tpi or 14 tpi (it's a long and boring story).
The threadform might be Unified but 1"-16 tpi one of several Unified Constant Pitch threads.
So, as I suggested before, this'd be one worth asking the engineer if he can check? In very simple terms, a Unified threadform implies a 60-degree included angle at each thread peak or trough bottom; if either plug or case thread was cut with a 55-degree included angle, the thread will likely always weep oil or require a sealant. Even if plug and thread are different angles and can only be fixed expensively, at least you'll know about it?
Hth.
Regards,
'Fraid the seller is talking from an orifice other than the one in the lower half of his face ...
1"UNF is 12 tpi or 14 tpi (it's a long and boring story).The threadform might be Unified but 1"-16 tpi one of several Unified Constant Pitch threads.
So, as I suggested before, this'd be one worth asking the engineer if he can check? In very simple terms, a Unified threadform implies a 60-degree included angle at each thread peak or trough bottom; if either plug or case thread was cut with a 55-degree included angle, the thread will likely always weep oil or require a sealant.
Even if plug and thread are different angles and can only be fixed expensively, at least you'll know about it?Hth.
Regards,
Hi Stuart,
Received the new plug and confirmed with a pitch measure, that it 1" 16 TPI.
Now, I've had a wee bit of luck, turns out here in Melbourne, there an old company, of tool makers.
I rang them to discuss what taps they had or made, he asked me the type and year of the bike and said I have the tap here in
front of me !!!.
He proceeded to talk about it, which was way above my comprehension levels, stating the changes and types of threads used in
Triumphs for the last 50 years !.
Bottom line is that has and still is supplying taps to both the U.S and British market for the last 50 years, he did sound as though he had some ageing in his voice !.
Anyway, his sons have taken over the rest of the business and he, because of his knowledge, just works on making and supplying taps, mainly for veteran thru to classic bikes, with all the different old threads.
Couldn't believe one random call and I found this bloke,, so I will get the tap from him, then look to options of re facing the flange area, or an alternative method ??.
I did talk to him about the possibility that triumph tapped the casing to a non std thread type, he replied that this tap will compensate if they have indeed done so, again, the technical talk was above my head, but he sure did know his stuff.
Cost of the tap was around $130. Yes, expensive, but a quote of around $350 from an engineering company, has me buying this and doing it myself..
regards
Col
Received the new plug and confirmed with a pitch measure, that it 1" 16 TPI.
Now, I've had a wee bit of luck, turns out here in Melbourne, there an old company, of tool makers.
I rang them to discuss what taps they had or made, he asked me the type and year of the bike and said I have the tap here in
front of me !!!.
He proceeded to talk about it, which was way above my comprehension levels, stating the changes and types of threads used in
Triumphs for the last 50 years !.
Bottom line is that has and still is supplying taps to both the U.S and British market for the last 50 years, he did sound as though he had some ageing in his voice !.
Anyway, his sons have taken over the rest of the business and he, because of his knowledge, just works on making and supplying taps, mainly for veteran thru to classic bikes, with all the different old threads.
Couldn't believe one random call and I found this bloke,, so I will get the tap from him, then look to options of re facing the flange area, or an alternative method ??.
I did talk to him about the possibility that triumph tapped the casing to a non std thread type, he replied that this tap will compensate if they have indeed done so, again, the technical talk was above my head, but he sure did know his stuff.
Cost of the tap was around $130. Yes, expensive, but a quote of around $350 from an engineering company, has me buying this and doing it myself..
regards
Col
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