[blacklab]

Hi all,
As the title sais, thought I'd thread my 76 t140 rebuild.
Now, to let you all know, bought this girl about 5 years ago, was a u.s.a import, bought off a local classic bike dealer. My first bike in 20 odd years. It was an education right from the start and had to learn quickly in order to make it a reliable runner. The wiring was giving me all sorts of issues, So the first major job was a complete re wire, followed shortly after by upgrading the worn Amals with a new u bute set of premiers. This gave me about 5 years of weekend rides and managed to put 4-5000 miles on her. I learnt how to regularly maintain her, with regular oil changes, tappet clearance, greasing, and with the addition of a spin on oil filter on the return line, all things were good.
But an ill fated winter ride last year, had her spring an oil leak out the primary case and on closer inspection, found that the primary chain had come amiss, and chewed the casings up a fair bit.
well, within a few days, that started out only to repair and rectify that issue, the bike was completely stripped, bagged, labelled and ready for a re build !!!! crazy for a novice huh
I figured that if I was going to ever restore her, I'd rather do it while Im of sound mind ! I'll never sell her, So here we go.
I have a couple of mentors locally to call upon, one who specialises in heads and machining and is a brit bike enthusiast.
Realistically I'd like to completely finish it by years end.
To follow, a few pic's of what I've done and where I'm up to so far.
Probably pretty basic stuff for most of you on here, but a real challenge ahead for me !!!

colin

 

[blacklab]

2009 when I first picked her up !
just thought I'd throw that in

 

[blacklab]

This was the primary chain damage that confronted me after the left hand muffler was drenched in oil from my last ride !
I believe that the tensioner may have failed. The funny thing was, I never heard anything out of the ordinary, just the plume of oil !

even damaged on the primary cover !
That part I couldn't understand ! never noticed there on previous primary cover removals. The clutch basket was in place, everything seemed ok, so I'm picking it was damage from the p/o

 

[blacklab]

Frame stipped down, engine out, everything bagged, labled, and shelved.

 

[blacklab]

few shots of the motor and head once removed from the frame.

 

[blacklab]

Starting with the frame, I used a local guy that uses a citrus wash, which strips everything off the metal, bar the rust



Its really made a great job of cleaning out the oil in the frame area, especially inside up by the head stock area, so my theory is it will require minimal glass blasting to key in for painting and remove the rust. All parts are at the painters now, getting a gloss black finish with a couple of clear coats to finish, should get the call from him to pick everything up in the next couple of days.
looking forward to start re assembling !

 

[blacklab]

purchased myself a new bike lift for the assembly side and for future maintenance, sick of breaking my back
only problem, the apprentice black lab has kinda claimed it as hers, a nice high advantage point to observe and chew on that bone !

anyways, that's where I'm at, I'll post up more as the assembly progresses...........

 

[RatZombie]

Kudos on the initiative. I give you credit for tackling the job.

I have to ask... Do you have any plans to dis-assemble the engine or A rebuild?

I am asking because you had a fairly severe head gasket leak. It may require some mill work on the head, and or the cylinders.

I would also suggest Cam bushings, and perhaps big/small end bearings, and bushes.
Since you're in that far... The sludge trap is most likely full in a bike that old so a balance of the crank is a good idea.

I know... Sorry to blow your budget over the net. If the head was leaking that badly... A total rebuild is a pretty fair assumption.

Keep the Picts. coming. Everybody loves a good rebuild.

 

[blacklab]

Hi Ratzombie,
yes definitely looking at doing a full re build, I too, with my limited knowledge, saw the head gasket leak, also noticed some scouring on one of the pistons.
The plan is, to get the frame back to a rolling stage, then start on the motor strip down.
Ive organised a guy over here to do the crank as well as properly balancing as well.
while I've had this down time, its been good to research, both here and anywhere else I can get info, but basically, looking at getting the forged steel con rods from M.A.P as well as their pistons . The head and top end I'll just hand straight over to a guy I know that does it for a living and is a brit bike enthusiast. The assembly side, I'm hoping to tackle that myself, with help and advice I have from a couple of mentors here in Melbourne, plus the obvious wealth of knowledge here. As I mentioned, this bikes a keeper, so I want to do it right, but basically everything I'm tackling is virgin territory for me, but I guess there's only one way to learn as they say......
cheers
colin

 

[RatZombie]

You definitely have the right mind set for the project. It's a beautiful bike, and it deserves the restoration.
I have an oxidized pile of junk, and I believe the same for mine.

These old Triumphs are a treasure. Can't wait to see yours progress.

 

[DAVE M]

Don't skim the head. You run the risk of ruining it. If the head is bent, it can be straightened

It is very unlikely that the cam bushings will be worn

 

[blacklab]

Thanks Dave, As I mentioned I have a friend here that's been in the business for years with a heavy twist or passion for Brit bikes, he's quite the go to guy down here for top end and head repair and does his fair share of complete re builds. pryor to sorting the head, I want to get the frame and wheels sorted, then its my intention to take the motor to him for measurements and get the head inspected, then we can work out a game plan on what's needed to be done and what's needed to be ordered so I can push ahead with getting the crank sorted. I'll certainly be wanting all the opinions I can get, as mentioned, I want to get this right, especially for the type of riding I'll be doing.........

cheers
colin

 

[RatZombie]

Another member (Jonskter) sent a frame/swingarm to a shop to be checked for "true". There was no apparent damage but he sent it anyway for some little bits to be sorted.

It came back with some minor re-working in several areas.
Point is I thought it was a wonderful idea to have the frame trued. A couple hundred gets you a known correct frame. It's on my list.

 

[htown16]

If you used blast media on the frame be sure and get an aftermarket oil filter, the type that installs in the frame tube. Too many horror stories on here about people destroying engines on OIF bikes after blasting the frame. They all say "but I sealed it carefully and cleaned it out well". Don't take a chance on some stray bits of blasting media.
Not to pile on but it looks like the drive side piston seized. Some shots of the underside of that piston and its pin would help.
Definitely a candidate for a full rebuild of the powerplant. Do it or have it done right from the sludge trap out and you won't regret it.

 

[JohnA]

Good to see pics of your bike Colin. It looks a really nice, very original example of a '76 (maybe an early '76 with that front mudguard?). Its a bit late now, and probably doesn't matter in the slightest anyway as you're enjoying the restoration / improvement process, but that kind of casing chewing by the primary chain is pretty common. In fact it is rare to find one without some sign of it, though I will admit your example is fairly extreme. But not full stripdown kind of issue is what I'm on about.

Here's my tuppence worth: Don't take the "Never get a Triumph head skimmed" advice too literally. It can be fine, as long as it isn;t excessive. With blowing between the cylinders like yours has had, a depression can get eroded which can't be sorted by 'bending' back straight, as there's metal missing locally. The important thing is to be able to get the pushrod tube rubber crush within an acceptable range. You can get various different thicknesses of O rings, and even various thicknesses of head gaskets, so unless you have a lot of material milled off the head face, you should be fine. Sounds like you have a good source of advice on your doorstep in any case, so probably best to ignore whatever we say on here and go with them!

On the conrods, I can;t claim any personal experience in this but I've seen it said by people whose opinions I respect, that Carillo steel rods are massive overkill for a road T140 and as well as costing a lot will probably be heavier and need crank re-balancing. The standard rods are good. If there's anything wrong with them, Thunder Engineering (here in UK) make some very nice rods with very strong bolts, for not much more than LF Harris copies of standard rods. Pretty much the same weight too.

Finally, your acid stripping method looks very effective and a good way of avoiding the kind of grit-in-the-oil-tank issues htown warns about.

 

[blacklab]

hi guys, I am appreciating all the feedback, very re assuring there will be the help and opinions to ponder as I go thru this.
htown16, yes, I definitely wont be taking any chances with media inside the frame ! I will be fitting one of those paper filters. I really mulled over the blasting part, and probably one of the reasons I used the citrus strip method, firstly to ensure there was no oily reside left in the oil in the frame part specially up inside the head stock area and secondly to reduce the amount of blasting required, I really payed attention to sealing everything up, but will spend this weekend flushing the entire area thoroughly !
I here what your saying about the blow by between cylinders, funny thing was the motor was purring at the time I parked it up with the primary case mutilation, infact I'd just come back from a 70 mile run, so it wasn't seized at all, but I'll take some more photo's of everything and put them up for sure.
johna, yes, it was pretty un molested and in fairly good condition when I first got her, the numbers "nn" say she is an October 76 build. The primary case blow out wasn't really the reason to re build her, probably more to the fact that it was coming up 40 years old, the paint was looking tatty, and I figured that if I restore her now, better than when I'm old and to crusty to do so ! ( didn't know at the time my boat needed doing, but that's another story LOL ) I haven't made a definite decision on con rods yet john, and I found thunder engineering website ( thanks) and I intend to send off an email and get a quote off them in the next couple of days, they didn't have pricing info on there. A friend of mine, has those carrillo con rods on his 75, one of my local mentors and he too said it was over kill, The email I got back from MAP, listed the forged steel ones at around $600 aus, so it will be interesting to get a comparison on the thunder con rods.
At the minute, still waiting for a couple of parts to arrive, head stock bearings, new s/s back master cylinder and Hagon shocks, so a few weekends of tinkering should have the frame to a rolling stage, I believe its the best time to get those stands back on the frame, or should I say easier.Then, down to the machinist for some measurements and a good inspection of the head, then I can order the rods and pistons etc to suit.
knowing me I'll probably re do everything while its all apart LOL
Thanks again for everyone's comments, nice to know there's those about that I can bounce a few things off and ask what's best practice, Im picking there will be a lot of those questions on the horizon !!!!!

colin

 

[jonkster]

Colin, FWIW I have some of the MAP H-beam steel rods. They weigh around 428grams (the stock ones weigh around 400g).

The Carrillo ones weigh around 480g I think which is considerably heavier.

I got the MAP steel rods because I didn't trust the state of the ones that were in the bike when I stripped it and because they weren't that much more expensive than new replacement alloy ones.

I had the crank crack tested, reground and balanced dynamically (for the new rods/pistons) while I had it out.

Can't give any indication on how they go yet as the bike is still all in pieces but I am feeling more confident in them that the original rods I had (or 2nd hand ones that have an unknown history).

 

[blacklab]

Thanks for the info jonkster,
I too am getting the crank tested and dynamically balanced, I don't know what condition my current con rods are in yet, but just decided to re do and replace everything in the bottom end. Its not thru an abundance of funds or anything like that, Just wanted to eliminate as much as possible ( touch wood ) the need to have to do it again !
Did you actually find that the map forged ones were more expensive than the billet aluminium ones available ? so far from what ive researched, the MAP steel are $100 cheaper than The R and R billet aluminium ones, ex british spares and im currently getting a quote for the thunder engineering ones. To be honest, I haven't even got any pricing on standard stock ones.
What brand pistons/ rings are you running with them jonkster ?

 

[jonkster]

Colin I am using Hepolite pistons (that is just what I bought - don't know if they are good or bad but I believe they were the brand used originally, I don't know if they are still the same product though as I think they changed hands a long time back)

The new alloy conrods I found from the UK were around the $650AUD (not including shipping).

The MAP steel ones were $620AUD including shipping (ie $30 cheaper even with shipping)

 

[htown16]

I'd have someone with a trained eye take a look at your con rods for any damage. Generally, factory Triumph rods are plenty robust for a street engine. There may be better places to spend your money.