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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying to remove the output shaft sleeve on my 900 Sprint to replace the oil seal. The sleeve will spin on the shaft but I can't seem to pull it off and I don't see a circlip holding it. I checked out N5XL's excellent write up on this but he just mentions removing the sleeve. Am I missing something or just not pulling hard enough?
 

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Sorry, I'm clue-free on this one.

Cheers,
-Kit
 

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I couldn't get mine off either...just double checked the factory manual and there is nothing holding it on....mine didn't rotate on the shaft it rotated with the shaft :-/ I'm sure with a good enough tug it would have come off but it's not the easiest of things to get hold of !!!!!

I carefully destroyed the oil seal to remove it and replaced it straight over the spacer...be carefull not to mark the shaft if you do take this route as the lips of the seal will need to run on it to create a seal ;-)

It would only take a little crud/corrosion to stick the thing on quite well all the more so for it having been on there for the last 15 years :-0

Maybe NX5L will be able to offer so crowbar free advice ! ;-)

All the best with it
Cheers
Mot
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Oh come now Mot...what kind of bozo would use a crowbar to work on a motorcycle...I mean really!

By the way, does anyone know the purpose of that sleeve? I mean other than to hold in the oil seal? What happens if I scratch that in taking out the seal Mot's way? Can a slight scratch be sanded out or is a new sleeve in order? I know this is a pessimistic point of view, but given my luck lately(all bad!), I may as well be prpepared! :confused:
 

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Oh come now Mot...what kind of bozo would use a crowbar to work on a motorcycle...I mean really!

By the way, does anyone know the purpose of that sleeve? I mean other than to hold in the oil seal? What happens if I scratch that in taking out the seal Mot's way? Can a slight scratch be sanded out or is a new sleeve in order? I know this is a pessimistic point of view, but given my luck lately(all bad!), I may as well be prpepared! :confused:
I scratched mine...lightly mind and all the time I was awear that a really bad cock up at this stage might mean eangine dismantling to fix !!!! I rubbed it out with some 1500 grade wet and dry and kept the area V clean..

All oil tight for the last few hundred miles so far.....
 

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Andy,

I wish I could offer up some helpful advice on what I did to remove the sleeve, but it literally come off with nothing more than finger pressure. I simply grabbed it with my fingers and it came straight off. Based on Mot's experience, it is starting to sound like I might have been the odd man out. I assure you I had absolutely no difficulty removing it and there is no other fastener holding it in.

To Mot's point, I could easily see some rust or general debris getting in there and causing it to be difficult to remove. No fear if its stuck...it should be very easy to remove the seal without removing the sleeve. If it wont budge, simply leave it alone. There are a couple of ways you can work around the problem.

1. Use a small, flat bladed screwdriver (the smaller the better) and use it to "punch" a hole in the face of the existing seal. Gently hammer it into the flat face part of the seal...about halfway between the sleeve and where the seal fits into the bore of the crankcase. Once you punch a hole in the seal, you can use a screwdriver and lever out the seal...better if you use a seal puller like I have pictured in the writeup. The 90 degree bend in the seal puller is what you want to rest on the edge of the crankcase and lever the seal out.

2. Use a short, self tapping screw and screw it into the face of the seal. Once it starts, you dont want to screw it in too deeply for fear of damaging the bearings underneath the seal. About 1/4 inch is as deep as you want to go. Once the screw is in, use a screwdriver and lever against it to pull the seal out.

3. If neither of the above are working and you are simply tearing the seal apart, continue to pull at the seal body using needle nose pliers and you'll likely find that the seal will come out...I've removed many seals this way, thinking I was going to have to cut the seal body out with a dremel tool.

In all of this, be mindful of the sleeve. Its OD is the surface that the seal is riding on. If you deeply gouge it, you'll have to replace it but if you simply scratch it, you can remove the scratch with a fine grade of sandpaper. Use 220 to get out deeper scratches, then move up to say a 400 and finish off with some really fine stuff like 1500. Carefully done and taking your time, you wont have a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks N5XL (May I call you "N"?) I appreciate the info. I was out last night again heaving merrily away at the sleeve (by hand) and the best I was able to do was to get it to a point where it no longer spun on the shaft. It looks like one of your other methods will be required. By the way, does that sleeve extend "into" the seal? I somehow don't see the seal riding on the visible part of the sleeve as it presently sits. Or does the seal slide forward when in use? Just curiious.

And thanks again.
 

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Please feel free to call me Dave (as listed in my signature), or call me anything you like...just dont call me late for dinner (as the joke goes)!

If you take a close look at the sleeve, you can see there is a polished looking area and dull, rusty looking area. The brown line in between the dull and polished area of the sleeve is where the seal actually rides.



The sleeve is simply a steel cylinder that is slightly beveled on the inside facing ID and beveled on the outer facing ID and OD. The bevel on the inner facing part of the sleeve mates (agrees with) with a machined area on the sprocket shaft (just behind the "toothed" part of the sprocket shaft in the photo).

You can see from the photo that the seal only "rides" on the inner most few mm's of the sleeve surface...the remainder of the sleeve is for keeping the countershaft sprocket in alignment with the rear sprocket so you dont wear out your chain.

Once you get your seal out, look carefully at the sleeve. Clean it up with a rag and some carb cleaner...you want it smooth with no rough places. If you scratched the sleeve when you removed the seal, use some fine wet/dry sandpaper to remove the scratches.

In your case, your replacement seal will slip over the sleeve with the sleeve still in place. Oil the ID of the new seal with engine oil and press the seal home, over the sleeve so that its flush with the engine casing and not any deeper.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks again Dave (or "N" - I rather like that 'cause it sounds like something from James Bond). I appreciate the info and picture. It makes life much easier to have the forum's own Haynes' manuals since the actual Haynes makes a lot of assumptions...like the only time we'll replace this seal is when we take the tranny apart. Dinner is at 6 today, but somehow I don't think you'll make it. Oh well, next time you're up this way, let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Interesting update...

I finally got the oil seal off using a self tapping screw into the seal after carefully driling a small hole through the metal band. A good hard teady pull got the seal off. Unfortunately, it looks like someon else tried this job before me as there were some scratches on the sleeve that I know I didn't put tere since I was nowhere near those areas. Two are of concern as they are too deep to sand out. One is just ahead of where the seal sits and the other seems to be just under the outer edge of the seal and barely a millimeter long. It looks like I may need a replacement sleeve. What was interesting was this. As I gently wet sanded the scratch on the seal, a bit of water dropped onto the toothed shaft (less than a drop, actually). As I spun the sleeve looking for other scratches, it seemed to spin more freely than before so I gave it a good tug and Yikes!..it came right off. The only other thing I used there was some rubbing alcohol on a swab to clean off the surface of the sleeve and toothed shaft, but that stuff evaporates quite quickly so unless it disolved some grease, it would seem that a little bit of water was enough lubrication to allow the sleeve to slide off. I wish I had known this earlier! Oh well, at least the sleeve is off, although that doesn't resolve the scratch issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, here's a closeup of what someone did to the sleeve - I've circled the marks. As you can see, the middle one is just outside the seating area of the seal and the left one is just on the front edge of where the seal sits. I then noticed the right hand one in about the middle of the area where the seal sits. I sanded lightly with 400 then 600 and finally 1500 (all wet) and what you see is what's left. A new sleeve is on order (At the astounding price of $3.00 USD!). May the guy who did this be plagued with terminal Jock Itch!
 

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Countershaft sleeve

I know it's been many years since this conversation, but I'll give it a try. So my problem is of the similar matter. I have a Legend TT 2000, it is basically same triple and a Haynes Manual is one for all of the triples. So I've had an oil leak through the seal, I've got new seal from a dealer and could not remove the sleeve, made some scratches on the sleeve but put tape over it and installed it over the sleeve. It started leaking a lot less but still the chain and the rear sprocket is getting dirty. So I got onto this forum, read some threads and figured that it's best to get a seal from a "bearing" place and so I did. And as you mentioned the sleeve is only $3 Cad (price is still same) I ordered it. But when I got to draining the oil and opening the sprocket cover I decided that I have to beat the sleeve and while doing that I made lots of scratches and grooves on it so there was no way back. I don't know why, but its like a press fit. It was so tight, I had to put lots of penetration oil on it and waited for hours. And when I got it off its not coming back on (so tight)
Modern bikes all of them, have an O-ring over the countershaft and the sleeve fits easily, but this has to be tight because otherwise the oil will sneak underneath it. So right now my problem is that the sleeve dealer gave me is different from what I took of my bike. The rear inside bevel is not wide and thin enough and the sleeve just hits the metal with a matching sound. I contacted dealer and they ordered one more sleeve for me. But you know, it is a beautiful bike and every time they look at me as at a looser saying (we don't take on service bikes older than 2002). And when I needed a starter solenoid dealer said it's discontinued and I can't get a new one from them . . . And the sleeve that I got went by the part number and all of the proper specs. And now I can't put it together and ride and the season is coming to an end

Here is a photo of 2 sleeves

Any Ideas ??? Thank you !
 

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Hi Darthandy, I like your signature sign off. "If the force is with me...
I had the same problem with my Sprint and Trophy. I cut out a small amount from the center stand, then inserted a metal tube and roll pins to reassemble the center stand back together. Doing it this way I could cut off a little more of the center stand if needed, rather than cut a chunk and welding it back together. My brother's Super III was nearly impossible to get on the center stand because the rear tire was about 2 inches off the ground. I cut out a piece, reassemble with the inserted metal tube, and try it out. Nope, that's not enough. Back to cutting off another small piece.
I cut out just enough to get the rear tire barely off the ground Now it's much easier to get the bike on the center stand.
Greg
 
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