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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have just fitted the Lucas 564 reproduction tail light, such as this one from NewBonneville,



and have been planning for a while to convert it to LED when I got one. My original plans were to build a board containing Piranha Superflux LEDS which would replace the original 27/8w incandescent filament bulb. However, before I could put my plans into action I stumbled upon this LED board from Matchless Clueless...



The cost of the board compared to building one myself isn't much so I went down the lazy route and bought one. I was feeling a little sceptical at the time, since the board uses only 4 LEDS for the tail light and 6 LEDS for the brake light, a total of 10 LEDs. My plans had been to use at least 20.

I have to say though, that on fitting the board I was amazed. Those 4 LEDs completely outshine the original filament bulb and there is a large enough difference between light output of tail to brake lights as to be highly noticeable since all 10 LEDs light when the brake comes on.

Fitting the board is easy and only takes around half an hour. Two small (3mm) holes need to be drilled in the light unit base plate to take the board fixings. The guy who makes these boards is James Smith and apart from being a member of the Matcless forum owns his own site, http://www.matchlessclueless.com and he is based in Hong Kong. I have emailed James to suggest an alternative method of fitting the board that does away with the need to drill any holes and he says he will look into it for future batches.

Electrical connections are easy too. By default the light board comes with a 3 wire connector which plugs onto the back side of the board and the internals of the bulb holder are removed so that the 3 wires can run through the holder and connect via bullet connectors to the rear harness. This is the way I did mine, but James also offers an alternative method where the bulb holder internals are kept, and an adapter consisting of a BAY15D bulb base is just plugged in in place of the bulb, so there is really no wiring mods needed at all. Its completely plug and play.

All fittings are supplied as a kit and there is also a printable template for drilling the holes. The kit arrived extremely quickly, within a couple of days of ordering and was well packaged. For anyone who is considering converting their Lucas tail light to LED I would highly recommend this board. You will not be dissapointed with its performance. Here is a link to the page for the LED board:

http://www.matchlessclueless.com/store/lucas-564-leds/lucas-564-led-12v/
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nice product
Are all 10 at same intensity
Ie is only difference for brake10 vs 4?
Or are they also brighter?

Interesting use of those piranhas on edge for the plate light :D



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All 10 LEDs are at the same intensity and the difference between light output between tail and brake is done by bringing in the other 6 LEDs. This is one reason why I was initially sceptical since I had thought that a good ratio between tail and brake LEDS is 3:1 which would have meant about 12 LEDs in total. Also 4 LEDs for the main tail light doesn't seem much, but went with the attitude of 'well, its very reasonably priced so I might as well give it a go'. But like I said, on fitting it I was pleasantly surprised.

What makes this board so good, in my opinion is that James has used a constant current source to feed the LEDs rather than the more usual current limiting resistors. This has resulted in a steady light output regardless of changes in battery voltage or fluctuations caused by the charging system. That, coupled with the use of Piranha LEDs which are noted for emitting an amazing amount of light with a good spread, even though they are not the brightest of LEDs. I haven't made any measurements but I estimate the consumption of the whole board to be around only 1 watt.

The number plate LEDs really do look good, giving an ice white light which has a more powerful spread than the original filament bulb.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Hi All,

Just wanted to say hello and thank Ripper for his kind words about my Lucas 564 LED light board. Really pleased that you have found an application on a modern bike too; it was designed for my old 1951 Matchless as I needed to reduce the electrical load to help the ailing dynamo whilst at the same time improving visibility in the horrendous traffic here in Hong Kong.

Surprising just how common the Lucas 564 tail lights are isn't it! I thought they were really only on classic bikes but I understand now that some of you guys are retro-fitting them to your modern machines too. I passed a new Triumph only this afternoon (nice looking bike) and paused to glance at it's rear light, and I can see why the old Lucas light is a common upgrade to the stock unit!

Great forum you have here guys. Ride safe...

Regards, James
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Nice looking LED board this Forchetto, but in terms of performance my board has several advantages -

LEDs - This board uses QTLP321CR Piranha LEDs which are only 3mm. My board uses 5mm Piranhas with a wider viewing angle.

No constant current source on this board, only current limiting resistors. With the engine idling, this light will flicker. The LEDs will also have a shorter life and its prone to fluctuations in supply voltage. Very inefficient.

This board needs 20 LEDs. My board only needs 10.

Price - Your board: $95.95 (£60.47). My board: £27.50 ($43.63)

Retro-Racer - I've been experimenting with LEDs for a while now, mainly with turn signals and have learned a lot on the way. One lesson I have just learned is that more LEDs does not neccessarily equate to more light output. At least, not without the correct type of LED and the most efficient circuitry to run it.
 

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Price - Your board: $95.95 (£60.47). My board: £27.50 ($43.63)
You can get a whole tail light with housing for $60USD. I can't speak to efficiency, but these lil' buggers sure are bright.

/M
 

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Dear All,

With regards to brightness, this is the comparison I made with an odd 26/8W tail light bulb (it was intended to be a comparison with a standard 21/5W filament bulb, but only after taking the photos did I realise it was an odd bulb I'd picked out!). My intention when designing the LED light board was to produce something that gave the equivalent light output to a standard filament bulb but with much lower current draw (for my old bike) and also constant illumination across voltage fluctuations (i.e. low battery, at tick-over etc). There are more pictures here if you're interested: http://www.matchlessclueless.com/led-lighting/led-rear-lights/. As has already been mentioned, my approach was quality rather than quantity and more LEDs are not necessarily better!



Please take the above photo with a pinch of salt - it is almost impossible to photograph a bright light on a dark background! However I think it does show the relative brightness of the LED (top) versus 26/8W filament bulb (bottom) with both tail and stop functions lit. Things to note are that the LED is slightly brighter, has a larger area of illumination thanks to 10 'brightspots' versus one of the bulb, and less light wasted out to the sides where it is not required. The number plate illumination of the top LED light is somewhat drowned out by the 'wasted' light from the bottom bulb, but in practice it is more than sufficient to provide full illumination to the whole rear number plate.

Once again, thank you for your interest and really pleased to see that these lights will now be finding their way on to some rather nice Triumphs around the world.

Please feel free to PM me with any questions.

Kind regards, James
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I use the Lucas adapter kit from Maund. It mounts the lamp using the original holes in the fender and uses the stock vibration damping grommets. Also it positions the lamp at a nice perky angle and not tilting downwards.
http://maundspeed.blogspot.com/2012/10/lucas-tail-lamp-adapter-triumph.html
Its a beautiful job. You make these adapter plates yourself yes?

I've seen the adapter plate before and thought what a great idea. My light was one of those with integrated turn signals from NewBonneville. It came attached to a stock rear fender from Fleabay for a very reasonable price. However those at NewBonneville who had drilled the light case to take the turn signals had attached them in such a way as to poke upward and backward, and frankly they looked stupid.

So the first thing I did was to order a new light unit, fit the turn signals with LEDs and relocate them. I also fitted the light with one of James' LED boards.

My light doesn't hang down, niether does it sit at a 'perky' angle like yours, its more or less straight. I did the drilling on the new light case and it uses the stock mounting grommets just like the NewBonneville one, except that I took more care about it.

I had intended to get one of your adapter plates, but I have a Triumph grab rail which has a dresser rail running around the back of the seat and there is less than 1/4 inch of clearance between the dresser rail and the light casing. If I fitted the adapter plate the dresser rail would hit the light fitting. I think its a shame that the adapter plate can't have some adjustment, because I would like to raise the angle of the light just a little bit.

I must say, this forum is an incredible place. We now have D9 brackets, the Maund light adapter plate, James from the Matchless forum making LED boards, and I am working on a turn signal controller, a bit like the Signal Minder. The results will be put onto the forum when its finished.
 

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I just got the MatchlessClueless LED fixture, can't wait to install it. en7jos is also very good with communication and service. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I just got the MatchlessClueless LED fixture, can't wait to install it. en7jos is also very good with communication and service. Thanks!
You will not be disappointed! :D
 

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Hi James,

Would you be interested in producing an LED rear light for the factory triumph rear light?. I'm sure you'd have a large market, and I could probably sort out a rear light unit for you to examine.

Rob

Dear All,

With regards to brightness, this is the comparison I made with an odd 26/8W tail light bulb (it was intended to be a comparison with a standard 21/5W filament bulb, but only after taking the photos did I realise it was an odd bulb I'd picked out!). My intention when designing the LED light board was to produce something that gave the equivalent light output to a standard filament bulb but with much lower current draw (for my old bike) and also constant illumination across voltage fluctuations (i.e. low battery, at tick-over etc). There are more pictures here if you're interested: http://www.matchlessclueless.com/led-lighting/led-rear-lights/. As has already been mentioned, my approach was quality rather than quantity and more LEDs are not necessarily better!



Please take the above photo with a pinch of salt - it is almost impossible to photograph a bright light on a dark background! However I think it does show the relative brightness of the LED (top) versus 26/8W filament bulb (bottom) with both tail and stop functions lit. Things to note are that the LED is slightly brighter, has a larger area of illumination thanks to 10 'brightspots' versus one of the bulb, and less light wasted out to the sides where it is not required. The number plate illumination of the top LED light is somewhat drowned out by the 'wasted' light from the bottom bulb, but in practice it is more than sufficient to provide full illumination to the whole rear number plate.

Once again, thank you for your interest and really pleased to see that these lights will now be finding their way on to some rather nice Triumphs around the world.

Please feel free to PM me with any questions.

Kind regards, James
 

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Hi James,

Would you be interested in producing an LED rear light for the factory triumph rear light?. I'm sure you'd have a large market, and I could probably sort out a rear light unit for you to examine.

Rob
Hi Rob and all,

Yes, I'd be more than happy to look into making up an LED light board for the original Triumph rear light if you think that this would be of interest to other owners.

I would of course need one of the lights to work with. So if you have one available that I could lend and are prepared to post it to me in Hong Kong, then I'll return it with a nice new LED light board fitted! The only thing I can't guaruntee is how long it might take as I'm also in the process of making up some boards for other classic bikes.

Regards (and happy new year!), James
 

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I've sent you a PM Rob, look forward to hearing from you!

Is an LED light board for the original type lamps something that anyone else would be interested in?

Regards, James
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
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