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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for suggestions for workarounds to get handlebar controls on tight. These are slipping badly on a new handlebar thought the cases are locked as tight as possible, I'm guessing shims, but what do folks recommend? These controls were tight before I took them off for cleaning and soldering bad connections - maybe the PO had glued them?

This is a 71 T100R I finally got around to redoing after having garaged it 5 years after I bought it. Just finishing the rewiring and am about to replace control cables and carbs. Should know soon if this even runs. I'll be back with more questions I'm sure - thanks for this forum and the great people and resources here.
 

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Are you trying to fit 7/8” switches to a 22 mm bar?

Consider rubbing the flat faces of the clamps down a bit on abrasive paper on a flat plate
 

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Hi,

Are you trying to fit 7/8” switches to a 22 mm bar?
Consider rubbing the flat faces of the clamps down a bit on abrasive paper on a flat plate
If the bike has 22 mm. OD handlebars, I'd sooner consider using a spares supplier that doesn't supply shonky pattern crap ... :bluduh

Just finishing the rewiring
'Fraid the Red wires attached to the oil tank:-



... are about as much use as a chocolate spoon - the oil tank and battery carrier are rubber-mounted ...

Those Red wires should be attached to the engine (to provide an electrical return path to battery +ve from the points if you're using 'em and the oil pressure switch, and HT between the plugs and coils). There should be two studs that pass through the inlet rocker-box and cylinder head into the block, the head steadies attach between the top parts of these and the rear vertical bracket under the main frame top tube, the Red wires' ring terminal should be on one of those studs. An educated guess says you'll have to cut off the pictured ring terminal and fit a 3/8" ID one, because the shonky pattern harness maker cared so much they fitted the wrong ring terminal ... :cool:



Interesting ... "Main Motorcycle" beside your posts show "1971 T100R" but that picture appears to show a pre-'71 Ammeter in the headlamp shell ...?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Hi,


If the bike has 22 mm. OD handlebars, I'd sooner consider using a spares supplier that doesn't supply shonky pattern crap ... :bluduh


'Fraid the Red wires attached to the oil tank:-



... are about as much use as a chocolate spoon - the oil tank and battery carrier are rubber-mounted ...

Those Red wires should be attached to the engine (to provide an electrical return path to battery +ve from the points if you're using 'em and the oil pressure switch, and HT between the plugs and coils). There should be two studs that pass through the inlet rocker-box and cylinder head into the block, the head steadies attach between the top parts of these and the rear vertical bracket under the main frame top tube, the Red wires' ring terminal should be on one of those studs. An educated guess says you'll have to cut off the pictured ring terminal and fit a 3/8" ID one, because the shonky pattern harness maker cared so much they fitted the wrong ring terminal ... :cool:



Interesting ... "Main Motorcycle" beside your posts show "1971 T100R" but that picture appears to show a pre-'71 Ammeter in the headlamp shell ...?

Hth.

Regards,
Good catch on the ground points, will adjust. That battery box connection is attached to the frame ear so it does ground OK. There's also another ground for the engine in the harness at the engine mounts you mentioned. I've been following how the PO had it set up - probably not a good idea I guess. This harness has 4 other ground points and continuity checks out across the frame (so far). I have no idea what brand harness this is, there was no packaging - but I'm impressed with the quality and cable fit so far. But I'll take your advice.

On the headlight shell - yes the PO picked up a different one for some reason, I also have his original which has no ammeter and three warning lights but it was a little banged up. The PO had sourced a boatload of new and old parts and I'm working with what he accumulated.

If I decide to connect the Ammeter - do I need to run leads directly from the battery for the most accurate reading? This harness had no connections for an ammeter of course.

Many thanks!
 

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Hi,

harness has 4 other ground points and continuity checks out across the frame
:) Uh-uh ... 'fraid that's a classic newbie mistake; the later the Britbike, the fewer of any of the cycle parts are "ground" ... the Red wires poking out of the harness are (should be) connected together and to battery +ve - they are the primary "ground", between a given Red wire terminal on an electrical component and battery +ve is the continuity you should be checking. :)

If the harness was for a '71 Triumph, the rear lamp might not have a Red wire (Lucas appears to have added it part-way through '71) and the turn signals won't but essentially they're the only components that didn't have either a discrete Red wire connection or one attached to their mounting (and they can be added easily).

So, if the engine has another Red wire connection from the harness, the one in your picture (attached to an oil tank mounting) was intended to attach to an electrical component's mounting - if it reaches, to the bracket where you've attached the turn signals relay? That bracket was originally where the rectifier mounted.

If I decide to connect the Ammeter - do I need to run leads directly from the battery for the most accurate reading?
It's quite a lot of wiring pain to connect an Ammeter to '71-on wiring, for not a lot of gain ...

For an Ammeter to work, the current must pass through it; standard Britbike Ammeters have a scale with a central zero and are connected between battery -ve, the original rectifier and the 'consumers' - ignition coils, bulbs, etc. via the ignition switch. In theory:-

. when the Ammeter needle's between zero and "-", the rider can see the 'consumers' are drawing from the battery;

. as engine and alternator rotor rpm increase, more is supplied by the alternator to the consumers, less is drawn from the battery so the Ammeter needle indicates closer and closer to zero;

. at a high-enough engine/alternator rpm, the alternator supplies all the 'consumers' in use and starts to charge the battery, then the Ammeter needle moves to between zero and "+" ...

However, in practice, the standard Ammeters were/are always small, low-quality and affected by vibration on a twin; apart from when the engine isn't running, at best, an owner gains experience of roughly where the Ammeter needle waggles with given consumers in use (essentially lights on or off) and makes an educated guess as to whether the battery's being charged, or not ...

When Ammeters were fitted to most bikes:-

. the Brown/Blue wire essentially went just from battery -ve to one Ammeter terminal;

. the other Ammeter terminal, original rectifier and Zener diode were connected by Brown/White wires to one ignition switch terminal; if you've replaced rectifier and Zener with a combined regulator/rectifier, its DC -ve wire is connected to Ammeter and ignition switch in place of the rectifier connection ...

... see what I mean about "quite a lot of wiring pain ... for not a lot of gain"?

Some will advise fitting a Voltmeter in place of the Ammeter - its wiring connections are just two wires, one to each battery terminal; 2" and 50 mm. OD Voltmeters can be had relatively-easily; even digital to avoid "waggly needle", albeit you need one with emi protection or the HT sends it doolally ... Ime and mho, the modern colour-changing/flashing LED do a better job of charging failure warning while costing less and taking up less space ...

Hth.

Regards,
 

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well you could use shim brass or an aluminium beer can shim, but honestly get proper some 7/8" bars. Using rubber or tape etc won't solve the issue, esp. when you start pulling on the clutch lever.
 

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having the lever clamps less than solid is a good thing, it can save the lever snapping when the bike drops on its side.So long as they stay in position when riding.
 

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Hi,


If the bike has 22 mm. OD handlebars, I'd sooner consider using a spares supplier that doesn't supply shonky pattern crap ... :bluduh
Hi Eisenmen,
Stuart has hit the nail right on the head, instead of chasing a resolution to a problem that is not your fault, you will be better in the long run to correct the fault at it’s root cause.

I know it’s a hard thing to strip back the bike when it is nearly ready to run, but believe me these bars will haunt you for years.
When every time you operate a switch and it slides rather than switches, when the levers won’t stay in place, when you accelerate and the whole twistgrip turns instead of opening the throttle, when the bars move in their clamps while hard braking.

If they are 22mm then they are 0.25mm too small, a slight but very significant difference.

7/8" is 22.225mm not 22mm.


Regards
Peg.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Are you trying to fit 7/8” switches to a 22 mm bar?

Consider rubbing the flat faces of the clamps down a bit on abrasive paper on a flat plate
Thanks you all for the suggestions.

Given that the controls were tight before I took them off for repair and that the new Barrett throttle is lock tight - I'm going try Tritn's suggestion of very slightly resurfacing the flats of the controls - they are so close to tight that a slight resurface should be enough and that seems better than fooling with shims.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Progress on the '71 T100R bitsy, albeit slow progress. Light sanding on the flats of the loose handlebar lever casings worked perfectly to tighten them up - thanks for the suggestion.

Finished the wiring yesterday and so far everything is checking out with the new battery (before/after photos below). Worked off factory diagram with some adjustment for the new harness. I added a 20A fuse to the positive ground as Stuart suggested. I also replaced coils (one of the originals tested badly), condensers (which looked awful) and the flasher unit which the previous owner had kludged a poor hack for. The headlight bulb was bad of course (updated three prong), new one works fine. I did locate the smaller wedge bulbs for instruments and warning lights which all work well. I have no turn signals or tail lights installed yet - will chase down those issues when I get there.

Also fitted a new brake cable which was 1/2" longer than the original but seems fine (for now). I'm finding aftermarket parts disappointing. For instance, the new boot for the new oil pressure switch is too small. The new bullet connectors and bullets are different from the original and require a lot of tweaking to get firm connections. Seems everything is made more difficult by shoddy replacement specs.

Anyway . . . it's looking much more presentable but there's a long way to go. Next up is to flush the oil again, install carbs and control cables and try to get this to start. I checked and gapped the points, yes points, they seem OK - this will be a all stock bike (rectifier, zenner, etc.). But given the PO messes I've encountered thus far - my optimism that this engine is serviceable is waning. Nonetheless, it's great warm up for my next project - an '84 Alfa GTV6 which is arriving soon.

One question. How to install the new clutch cable? The clutch cable is shot and too long - perhaps stretched. The PO added all sorts of hardware (nuts, etc) on the lever end to take up slack and though I lubed the cable, it's still too stiff to be useful (though the clutch surprisingly isn't frozen up). I have a new cable to put on, but do I need to pull the gearbox cover to install it? I know on the Bonneville there is a handy inspection cap for this - no such luck on the T100R (see last photo). I need to pull covers at some point to replace all the screwed up hardware but was hoping to do that later.

Thanks to the folks on this forum - it's your experience and willingness to offer suggestions that has gotten me this far.
 

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Hi,



Assuming you haven't changed the bike's electrics to 'negative ground', turn the battery around so the positive (Red) terminals are nearest the drive-side frame tube; standard 'positive ground', your image shows battery negative (Black) terminals very close to both the frame tube and (when it's fitted) the edge of the seat pan, and under one of the lowest parts of the seat pan. :( I also cover the top of my T100's battery with another F8091 "Battery carrier tray" (aka the rubber mat under the battery), secured with the standard strap.

new bullet connectors and bullets are different from the original and require a lot of tweaking to get firm connections.
Do the bullets look like crimped versions of:-



... if so. they're 3.9 mm. OD bullets originally used by some Japanese harness makers for those bikes; otoh, the black-insulated tubular snap connectors are for 3/16" (4.8 mm.) OD bullets ... 3/16" OD bullets to fit modern metric-stranded cable are easily-available ... unless you're a maker of shonky harnesses knowing dealers who'll punt shonky ... :(

install the new clutch cable?
pull the gearbox cover to install it? I know on the Bonneville there is a handy inspection cap for this - no such luck on the T100R
On the contrary, the T100 is wa-aa-ay easier than the 650/750 ... simply unscrew the bit with the hex. at the bottom (Triumph called it "Abutment" in the parts books) and the "Connector" - that takes the ball-shaped nipple of the cable inner - is visible.

Wiggle old cable nipple out of Connector, test-fit new cable nipple in Connector ... I advise that last step because, as you're finding, :cool: some new parts don't always fit properly in older/original parts - the ball-shaped nipple should move easily in the Connector without being loose.

When you're happy with the fit of the nipple in the Connector, thread the new cable inner through the Abutment, refit the new cable's nipple in Connector, screw the Abutment back into gearbox cover, fit the other cable nipple in the clutch lever (again ensuring it rotates easily without being loose) ...

... before adjusting the clutch, you require a part illustrated and listed in the parts book but not shown in your picture - one of T2062 "Adaptor, short" or T2063 "Adaptor, long (in '73-on format, 57-2062/3 respectively), either Adaptor is shaped to fit between the Abutment and the ferrule on the end of the cable outer; obviously acquire both because you don't know which one you'll need for a given cable.

Also if you don't have one, acquire a T1646 "Rubber cover" to fit over cable outer, Adaptor and Abutment.

Unit 650's had exactly the same bits originally but, for some bizarre reason, Meriden changed them to the later arrangement - "handy inspection cap" ... to leak oil, unscrew and fall off ... and/or aiui so you can drop broken cable ends into the gearbox ... :confused: I feel luckier it wasn't a 'development' inflicted on the later 500's ...

headlight bulb
(updated three prong),
If you've used a connector anything like this (wires straight into the terminals):-



... be aware the headlamp reflector and the bulb terminals actually put it a long way back in the headlamp shell, the shell's rear corner then turns the wires very sharply. :( When I discovered this, I changed my bikes' H4 bulb connectors for:-



... the wires are at right-angles to the terminals, so the shell doesn't bend them so sharply :thumb (be aware there are similar plugs without the cover, that leave the terminals partially exposed ...).

Hth.

Regards,
 

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..but do I need to pull the gearbox cover to install it?...
That's a massive improvement! My wiring will be replaced this winter and I hope I make as a good a job of it.

No you don't need to pull the outer gearbox cover to replace the clutch cable, it should be very easy on your bike. Slacken the handlebar adjuster all the way and remove the cable, this should allow you to remove a slotted abutment piece at the gearbox. Unscrew the abutment holder (the bit that screws into the gearbox outer cover) and you'll see that the cable locates in a sort of fork on the end of a rod. Replace old with new and put it back together, the rod shouldn't be able to drop into the gearbox.
 

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Hi eisenmen,

Personally I don't see a problem with using the battery carrier as a "ground", as long as it is a collecting point which is connected to other "grounds". But I know the subject of "grounds" is somewhat akin to oil threads.

Looking at you photo I did notice that - correct me if I'm wrong, somebody - you've mis-placed one of the battery carrier shock mounting rubbers. See photo below - your photo to left, my battery carrier to the right. If you can't make out what I'm referring to, I'm thinking that the rubber grommet should go between the battery carrier strut and the tab on the frame, not between the washer and the frame tab.

Nice clean-looking work you've done!
 

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Hi eisenmen,

Personally I don't see a problem with using the battery carrier as a "ground", as long as it is a collecting point which is connected to other "grounds". But I know the subject of "grounds" is somewhat akin to oil threads.

Looking at you photo I did notice that - correct me if I'm wrong, somebody - you've mis-placed one of the battery carrier shock mounting rubbers. See photo below - your photo to left, my battery carrier to the right. If you can't make out what I'm referring to, I'm thinking that the rubber grommet should go between the battery carrier strut and the tab on the frame, not between the washer and the frame tab.

Nice clean-looking work you've done!
Thanks Hermit,
That current ground is on the frame ear for the oil tank mount - seems OK to me, but easy enough to change later if problems arise.

As for the battery carrier - it's riding on the oil tank shock mount - but frankly, this bike was so klutzed up by the PO that I only had that template to follow when putting it back together (and those oil tank/battery carrier pieces are quite the puzzle). I'll have to pull the oil tank off later for painting, can readjust everything then if there's a better way.
 

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Hi,



Assuming you haven't changed the bike's electrics to 'negative ground', turn the battery around so the positive (Red) terminals are nearest the drive-side frame tube; standard 'positive ground', your image shows battery negative (Black) terminals very close to both the frame tube and (when it's fitted) the edge of the seat pan, and under one of the lowest parts of the seat pan. :( I also cover the top of my T100's battery with another F8091 "Battery carrier tray" (aka the rubber mat under the battery), secured with the standard strap.
Regards,
Thanks Stuart,

Battery flipped - does seem to keep fuses safer too (see photo). Thanks,

I got a connector set from the Bonneville Shop, not thrilled with them (in the photo their parts are on the right), hard to work with and they don't play well with the original bullets. I wound up reusing original connectors as much as possible. But fortunately I only needed to make up about four bullet connections since the harness was so complete - so going back to redo those won't be a hassle. Three of those were on the headlight and I was wondering *** is up with the connector sticking so deep into the shell. I had ample room for that but I like your connector better since it's better shielded - will look for one. I used the one that was on the bike already, and it's pretty trashed like the rest of the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
That's a massive improvement! My wiring will be replaced this winter and I hope I make as a good a job of it.

No you don't need to pull the outer gearbox cover to replace the clutch cable, it should be very easy on your bike. Slacken the handlebar adjuster all the way and remove the cable, this should allow you to remove a slotted abutment piece at the gearbox. Unscrew the abutment holder (the bit that screws into the gearbox outer cover) and you'll see that the cable locates in a sort of fork on the end of a rod. Replace old with new and put it back together, the rod shouldn't be able to drop into the gearbox.
Thanks Rusty and Stuart - that's good news on the clutch cable - will take a shot at that later this week.

Rewiring affords the opportunity to remove and clean everything - so budget a lot of time and just enjoy it (I have). I wound up replacing almost all the electrical bits along the way along with some rusted and stripped hardware (with stainless). Had to degrease and repaint everything too. One bonus, the damn horn worked after I took it apart and cleaned it - sounds awful, but correct.

I took pictures as I went, but referenced the manual wiring diagram too (which has errors of course). Get a good harness as other here suggest - I have no idea who made mine - but the cable lengths are nearly perfect and well thought out for a complete stock bike setup. What cleaned the wiring up the most was that this harness brings all the handlebar controls into the headlight shell - the original harness had all those connections under the gas tank.
 
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