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Stuart short of time right now as it looks like it will be a honey do day taking down Christmas stuff. Regarding the revised 76/77 catalog.
When I wrote my previous I was looking at on line catalogs as I was not at home. Checked this morning and my paper one of the cover references 62501. It is not shown on the inside cover page however. My copy is from the Dealership I worked at and would have been sent to them when the bikes were new. When the store went out of business I purchased all the books. There are many incarnations of Triumph Parts Books and Service Manual's. As I don't have Kim's CD cannot comment. I have been planning on buying the Oracle 3.

K
 

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I have the Oracle 3
So far it's been good.
It's a bit of a 'mare to run on a Mac, it's set up for PC
Many parts books on sale are copies of the first version.
I understand that many dealers received updates which may have been pencilled in, or occasionally extra sheets added. It takes a bit of detective work to compile what the factory actually intended.
 

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Hi duc96cr, I made up a rectifier test sheet. With rectifier on bench (or ALL wires disconnected if it's on bike) you can do a simple test. This is not a perfect test, but a rough test that shows big problems like an open circuit or shorted diode.

Don't use diode test mode on your meter. Just use ohm meter setting. Make sure you put leads on meter correctly. Black to common or - socket. Put red lead to V/ohm/+ socket.

I'm assuming you have digital meter. However analog meter with needle works quite well for this test also.

Set ohm scale so you can read in the 100-300 ohm range. A good diode will read between 100 & 250 ohm or so. If your meter is not set to correct scale it may read OL (open lead(open circuit)) when it's not really open circuit. If the upper boxes of test are all OL your meter is probably set wrong. Once you feel meter is set correctly fill out the boxes with what meter reads.

The lower boxes will probably all read OL, but if not fill out the boxes with what your meter says.

The boxes are numbered 1-8 fill in your reading in each box.

It is imperative your leads are hooked to rectifier in the direction as shown on test sheet. Notice how the leads are reversed on each side of center, depending on what box you are measuring. Do not mess this up or test won't be valid!

Note the center bolt is connected to both end discs. If needed take a sharp knife & scrape paint of edge of disc on the out side disc but you should be able to make contact to the center bolt via the little 1/4 connector under nut head or the mounting threads.

Notice the dome on the discs... That is where the diodes actually are. The are bonded into the disc itself inside the dome.

I think I said prior but the 3 center discs are insulated from the center bolt with plastic bushings & spacers. These are very rugged & unlikely to fail.

I recommend printing the test sheet & filling it in. Scan & post it or simply post what the reading is for each numbered box.

If you mess up on testing, I'll probably be able to see that & we'll try again. Takes some practice. If I see your readings look valid, we'll have a rough idea of the condition of your old rectifier. That will tell you a lot. Since it's not practical to do long road test at this time of year it will let you know if it was more or less likely to contribute to your problems.

No rush bench test it when you get time.
Don
Scan rectifier test sheet.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Thanks for the test sheet as I am an electrical moron. I’ll be hanging it in my shop and checking the bike when I get home (May) . As you have already surmised, I work better with diagrams . I appreciate you taking the time to help.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Just got done re-reading all the responses. Thanks very much to all for the time and effort to help. Stuart, there is no one I respect more for knowledge of Triumphs. That said, you are a hard case ! My memory is just not that good anymore. I do my best to recall details of things I haven’t worked on in years, but sometimes the minute details escape me. I don’t work on only Triumphs like some here. There are also 2 Harley Davidsons, 2 Ducatis, a Suzuki, and a Yamaha to maintain. I do all my own work. I have always done all my own work, for about the last 60 years. I have never been stranded by my motorcycle in all that time, so I must be doing something right.
I remembered something while reading through all the responses I should have mentioned. The bike is apparently a Canadian model that somehow ended up being sold in Minnesota ( Northern U.S) There are differences between it and U.S. models. I replaced the headlight plug with an automotive unit, but it was a direct replacement, I modified nothing. I replaced the automotive bulb with a higher output automotive bulb, it was not a perfect snug fit in the reflector. The internal wiring in the headlight was a molten blob when I bought the bike. Maybe Canadian headlights were different ? Maybe the PO did a modification ?
All I did was ask about an LED head light bulb ! I’ll remember to be more careful in the future.
 

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Hi,

Stuart,
you are a hard case !
Not intending to be. :) You posted that you'd left where the bike is (and you won't be back 'til May). My feeling is, even if you're sure you can find this thread again then, right now, more speculation, wandering off at tangents, etc., isn't going to help you then. When you get back to the bike, once you can actually see, say, picture what's on it, we're all on the same page and you'll get good, pertinent advice. (y)

All I did was ask about an LED head light bulb
Mmmm ... but 'til we know what's on your bike, no-one can give you good advice. You've posted your bike is a '77 (VIN date code year (right-most) letter "P"?). Just unfortunately for your initial question, sometime during '77, Triumph changed the headlamp on bikes supplied new to the US and Canada (and some other countries). The two headlamps use completely-different bulbs, it so happens any advice (including LED replacement) for the two headlamps/bulbs is completely different so, 'til you can look at what's on your bike and hopefully post a picture, no-one can post clear advice in return. Any recommendations for bulb X might as well be for a chocolate teaspoon if your bike has bulb Y.

If "the PO did a modification", even more reason to know what's on the bike now.

I replaced the headlight plug with an automotive unit, but it was a direct replacement, I modified nothing. I replaced the automotive bulb with a higher output automotive bulb,
Which again reinforces my belief that it's likely the later type and not the earlier. But, 'til anyone knows, the thread is simply filling up with speculation, which isn't helping either you or any subsequent reader with a similar problem.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Thanks, Stuart. Do you know if anyone makes a bipolar LED bulb for both styles ? Assuming mine resembles an H4 close enough that I’m using one ?
 

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Hi,

anyone makes a bipolar LED bulb for both styles ? Assuming mine resembles an H4 close enough that I’m using one ?
Depends what you mean, but I suspect the short answer is no. To try and be yet clearer:-

. By "style", do you mean the bulb fitting in the headlamp reflector? If you do, one of either BPF or P45t is the bulb base and reflector that Triumph fitted to your bike when it was being built:-

.. BPF (sometimes aka "370")


.. P45t (sometimes aka "410")


... as you should be able to see, the two bulb bases are completely different, therefore there isn't any possibility of a given bulb fitting in a reflector not made for that exact bulb base type; this holds true for any bulb base type.

. Then "H4" is not a bulb type, it's simply an electrical connection type - the three spade terminals, arranged as if around three sides of a square. To my certain knowledge, this electrical connection type is used by at least four different bulb base types, none of which are interchangeable, all of which require a reflector specific to the bulb base type.

seem to remember that there was an automotive headlight bulb installed. The headlight plug was burned and I replaced it with one from the parts store
On this basis, I've speculated your bike most-likely has a headlamp with a P45t bulb and reflector simply because, of the two that Triumph could have installed when building your bike, the P45t bulb's H4 electrical connection plug is most-likely to have been the one you could "replace ... with one from the parts store", it was much less likely (but not impossible) the BPF bulb's unique-not-H4 electrical connection could've been "replaced ... with one from the parts store".

So you need to know what headlamp bulb your bike has before buying a LED or you risk coughing thirty-to-forty-odd bucks for something that simply won't fit your bike's headlamp reflector and electrical connection. If you want advice before buying, take and post a picture showing both the bulb base and the 'ole in the reflector?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #32
If I could find an LED bulb that fits the reflector changing the plug if necessary would be easy. After all, it’s not original and apparently not correct. I’ve only seen one LED bulb that wouldn’t be damaged by the positive earth electrical system, ( I didn’t know this) and when I try to search for one the concept of bipolar LED bulbs doesn’t come up with any results, it shows “ results using fewer words” leaving out “ bipolar “ which makes the results useless.
So, I was just wondering if there were other LED headlight bulbs available or only the one type.
 

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Hi,

when I try to search for one the concept of bipolar LED bulbs doesn’t come up with any results,
That's because "bipolar LED bulbs" is a term you invented, no-one else calls 'em that. People reading this Forum can help because we've a fair idea what you're talking about, internet search engines aren't (yet) that intelligent ... if an ISE returns results leaving out one of your keywords - e,g, "bipolar" in relation to LED bulbs - that means you used the wrong keyword ... ;)

You're thinking of "bipolarity"? The etymology of the two words isn't connected - one isn't a derivation of the other; nevertheless, certainly Google doesn't find anything listed as "bipolarity LED bulbs".

only seen one LED bulb that wouldn’t be damaged by the positive earth electrical system,
You're confused. Any LED bulb cannot be "damaged" by your bike's electrical system.

However, most LED bulbs 'found' by any ISE will be specifically-'negative earth' only, simply because far-and-away the vast majority of vehicles in use have 'negative-earth' electrics. One of those bulbs only won't 'work' when simply plugged into a 'positive earth' electrical system.

The bulb isn't (shouldn't be) "damaged"; it only doesn't 'work' because the "D" in "LED" stands for "Diode", and a property of any diode is essentially electrons can only pass through it in one direction. Your bike used to have a Zener diode for Volts and Amps regulation; your bike's rectifier had four diodes in it to rectify the alternator's AC (Alternating Current) to DC (Direct Current); your bike's newly-fitted Podtronics likely has the same to do the same.

What you're calling "bipolar LED bulbs" - e.g. the BPF you found being sold by The Bonneville Shop - have some simple additional circuitry inside so they'll 'work' irrespective whether they're plugged into a 'positive earth' or a 'negative earth' electrical system. Most LED bulbs found by an internet search engine don't have that additional circuitry inside simply because it still costs money and, as I say, far-and-away the vast majority of vehicles in use have 'negative-earth' electrics.

If I could find an LED bulb that fits the reflector
o_O Errrm ... but you don't know what bulb or reflector is on your bike now ...? Therefore, what LED replacement are you looking for to "find"? :confused:

plug
not original and apparently not correct.
o_O Errrm ... how did you work that out? :confused:

. "H4" is the 3-spade plug:-
.. It was used with the P45t bulb and lens/reflector Triumph started fitting to US-market bikes during '77.
wondering if there were other LED headlight bulbs available or only the one type.
Certainly BPF, P45t and P43t available.

But, absent knowing what's on your bike now ...

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #35
That has potential, Dave. Thanks, and Thanks to everyone for their help, knowledge and suggestions.
 

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Hi

That has potential,
Be aware:-

. The first three images at the top of Goffy's webpage show the same BPF LED headlamp bulb as you've found already sold by TBS (and CBS) in the US. If your bike's rear lamp is standard '77, any LED stop/tail bulb will work only poorly. :(

. The "NEW 'DAYLIGHTER 2s'" further down Goffy's webpage have the 3-spade H4 electrical connection but the bulb is positioned in the reflector by the three tabs radiating from the bulb base. This base type is known as "P43t"; if your bike has a lens/reflector for this type, it was an aftermarket replacement by a PO; LED P43t bulbs are available in the US, the "Philips Lumileds" that @Transgarp linked and posted an image of in post #9 draw only 20W (as opposed to the 30W of the ones Goffy's offering).

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Stuart, I feel like it will be worth while to do what is necessary to convert to LED , assuming I can do it without major mods. What kind of problem am I going to have with the taillight ? I’ve already installed the bulb but haven’t tried it. I didn’t realize there were issues.
 

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Hi,

What kind of problem am I going to have with the taillight ?
Depends on the LED 'bulb' you've selected.

Most LED 'bulbs' are a collection of individual LED in the end opposite the electrical contact(s). LED taillight 'bulbs' have some individual LED wired to be the 'taillight', other individual LED wired to be the 'brakelight' and, crucially, a few individual LED around the circumference.

Reason for the LED around the circumference is the crucial difference between incandescent and LED - whereas incandescent bulbs radiate light in all directions from the filament (hence the need for a reflector in a directional lamp like a headlamp or taillight), LED emit light directionally. So, while light from an incandescent tail filament also illuminates the bike's licence plate, a LED taillight 'bulb' must have specific individual LED pointed at the licence plate.

This all works in most taillights designed for incandescent bulbs, because they mount the bulb horizontally ... so the 'taillight' LED and the 'brakelight' LED radiate horizontally while the 'licence plate' LED radiate vertically.

If your bike has the standard '77 ('73-on) Lucas taillight, it mounts the bulb vertically ... Not a problem with an incandescent bulb but, as I say, depends on the LED 'bulb' you've selected - if it's one I've described, your bike'll have a brilliantly-lit licence plate (by what should be the 'tail' and 'brake' LED) but the only light radiating towards the driver of a following vehicle will be from the few LED that should be just illuminating the licence plate ... there won't be much contrast between 'tail' and 'brake' - at night possibly from the light reflected off the licence plate? - none in daylight if you ride lights-on. If your bike then has an original Lucas lens - with the silver foil over most of the inside - the light radiating towards the driver of a following vehicle is even more restricted ... :eek:

Because vertical mounting of incandescent taillights was rare, I'm not sure there are any suitable LED replacement 'bulbs'. :( The other option is a board of LED, that replaces all of bulb/holder/reflector inside the lamp, just using the mountings and wiring.

I feel like it will be worth while to do what is necessary to convert to LED
It's your bike, you must have it how you want it. Fwiw, having fitted my T160's with better lights back in the 1980's, when LED weren't available, and those better lights are still good nearly forty years later, imho LED are an expensive over-rated treatment for a symptom, not the problem, which is piss-poor original electrics. If you tot up the costs of LED and of fixing the electrics, the latter isn't much greater but, once done, you can continue to use cheap and widely-available incandescent bulbs (y) rather than being tied to expensive replacement LED from specialists. (n) Otoh, if you spend only on expensive replacement bulbs from specialists, the piss-poor electrics are still there and will eventually still need fixing. :(

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Because vertical mounting of incandescent taillights was rare, I'm not sure there are any suitable LED replacement 'bulbs'. :( The other option is a board of LED, that replaces all of bulb/holder/reflector inside the lamp, just using the mountings and wiring.
I use this for the rear and no lighting problems
This kit can be installed on both positive ground and negative ground
391-53973/A - LED CONVERSION FOR L679 & L917, 12V


For the front, the advantage of the Philips Lumileds over any other type of front LED is to use the same type of focal length is an H4 filament and installs in all types of reflectors for H4

 

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Hi,

I use this for the rear and no lighting problems
This kit can be installed on both positive ground and negative ground
391-53973/A - LED CONVERSION FOR L679 & L917, 12V

(y)

For the front, the advantage of the Philips Lumileds over any other type of front LED is to use the same type of focal length is an H4 filament and installs in all types of reflectors for H4
Uh-uh.

If you click on the link posted by @Dave M and scroll down to "NEW 'DAYLIGHTER 2s'", you'll see their LED are placed the same distance from the bulb base as a QH bulb; ime, this is true of several similar LED bulbs.

As I've tried to make clear in my posts to this thread, "H4" is just the 3-spade electrical connection. To my certain knowledge, it is used on at least five different bulb bases, at least three of which (BPF, P45t and P43t) are not interchangeable. Both the "NEW 'DAYLIGHTER 2s'" and the specific Philips Lumileds in the link you posted clearly show a P43t bulb base (the three radial locating tabs around the circular base are the giveaway), one of these would only fit the headlamp reflector in the OP's bike if a PO replaced whatever Triumph fitted when building the bike.

Both of the above links make the mistake of labelling the P43t bulb base "H4", this is a regular and confusing mistake in internet adverts., probably because specifically P43t has been the international automotive standard for twin-filament headlamp bulbs for well over thirty years, which is probably longer than many internet advertisers have been alive ... :rolleyes: The previous international automotive standard for twin-filament headlamp bulb bases was P45t, which also uses the "H4" 3-spade electrical connection.

As the OP doesn't know what headlamp bulb and reflector are in his bike and can't say 'til he returns to the bike's location in a few months time, :( no-one can say what LED replacement will or won't fit.

Hth.

Regards,
 
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