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So we are losing 1/3rd (33%) of the 10% that is ethanol, which equares to a 3.3% loss of energy. I'm doubt most folks would notice that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I see. Obvious how i read it...

That said, bought some MMO to see if i notice any of the said advantages...better burn for more power, better MPG, quieter engine. I'm more interested in lubricating the top end and valves and keeping injectors clean actually, but better power and MPG would be sweet.
 

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I've always heard MMO is good stuff. I use it on my pneumatic tools. Not heard of being used on engines, but I imagine it might lubricate the valve train the same way it works so well on pneumatic tools.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It's specifically FOR engines! Unless there is a different version for tools and such. Stuff i bought tho has been used in engines for decades, is sold in the automotive additive section, and describes it's use on the label as a fuel and oil additive.
 

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I went to their web page. They have an oil for air tools and engines. I did not know about the latter.

However, the engines in every vehicle I buy outlast the rest of the vehicle, so I'll take a pass.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't so much want to do it so it will last longer. The supposed benefits are lower engine noise, better power, better MPG, lubrication of upper cyl and valves, (which normal do not get lubrication) and it cleans the fuel system keeping injectors from working less efficiently over time due to buildup. Now I can't say if it even does one of those things, but It's been around forever and there are a lot of people who swear by it. So at $5 for treatment of 8 tankfuls i think it may be a very worthwhile thing to do. I don't intend to use it every tank so a bottle will last months. I also may try techron, the chevron additive that is also present in thier premium fuels. This is a cleaner only but appears to be a true and proven cleaner that lots of people swear by.
I figure i'll give them a try. Can't hurt and it's cheap.
 

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I started using Lucas Oil Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner & Stabilizer when the summer blends (the 10% ethanol) hit the pumps. It was recommended by a friend and at first I didn't think it would make a difference but after 3 tanks it really makes a difference on the power and MPGs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thats what i keep hearing about the lucas and marvell mystery oil. They seem to work the same. I guess if it takes a few tankfuls then what must be happening is cleaning of injectors. This is the one area i imagine where performance could deteriorate with very little buildup. I only dove 12 miles today with it but i'n looking forward to seeing if i notice anything.
 

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Before you go adding MMO or any other additive you your oil or fuel you might want to review the 19th century snake oil stories. Additives are the 21st century version.

MMO is mostly a mid-grade base lubricating oil, mineral spirits and dichlorobenzene. Not too mention adding it to fuel can reduce the fuels ability to resist detonation.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't think thats true at all. there are a lot of arguments one could come up with against that notion, but one is MPG. Member andrew65 was getting 38mpg and after pouring some of the lucas stuff in got 42.85mpg. Thats a huge difference that I never see on mine except when i compare flogging the bike and riding like grandma. So unless he tested it while riding very differently than he does, there would be no way to explain a 5 MPG improvement. But more importantly there are a lot of people who report great improvements in MPG. We shall see. I know my bike's mileage like the back of my hand, so I will know if this works in that regard. And if it does then the only reason that could be happening is improved lubrication of the upper cylinders which any way you look at can only be good. On the other hand if you are right i'm out 4 bucks....i think i can still eat tomorrow. :D
 

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Yeah, but this whole argument reminds me of the folks that swear by the magnets around the fuel line. If adding a few ounces of MMO to a tank of gas adds 5+ MPG, then at least one of the gas company would do it because it would give them a competitive advantage - in fact, a big one.

Remember Murphy's law - the simplest answer is the right one, and the simplest answer is that MMO added to gas doesn't make a difference.

Edit: sorry, that's Occam's razor, not Murphy's law
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Not necassarily. If a gas company added that to thier gas it would cost them more not to mention they'd end up selling less gas. And they'd all follow resulting in the gas companies losing huge profits. I'm not saying it works, but like i said Andrew claims a pretty considerable MPG advantage. Could be a fluke, but thats what i'm going to find out.

Maybe the oils companies thank the lord every day that most people are non believers. I'm not saying i believe either way. But to me this is like religion....i'm not a believer or a non believer. But unlike religion at least with this i can find out the truth for myself.
 

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As a businessman I don't buy that. The cost to add MMO as an oil company would be neglible (because they would make it) and they would sell more gas because people would buy from them.

Also, the car companies would get behind it as a way to meet CAFE requirements. If MMO added 5+ MPG, we'd be reading about in popular science and consumerreport.org. it's a pipe dream IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well, i have to admit i lean the same way as you. But i still have to see for myself. When people swear they are getting better mileage with it, thats the one thing i have a hard time getting past. just as hard as anything to the other end of the debate. Otherwise i'd probably lean as far to the no believer side as you. But again, 4 bucks to find out and then i can put it to rest or enjoys the benefits,
 

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Well, i have to admit i lean the same way as you. But i still have to see for myself. When people swear they are getting better mileage with it, thats the one thing i have a hard time getting past. just as hard as anything to the other end of the debate. Otherwise i'd probably lean as far to the no believer side as you. But again, 4 bucks to find out and then i can put it to rest or enjoys the benefits,
The problem is that someone puts this stuff in their tank hoping for better gas mileage, which results in them consciously or unconsciously not twisting the throttle as much.

Also, mileage varies a lot from tank to tank anyway. So someone puts the stuff in, has, by chance, a tank with higher mileage and attributes it to MMO. If they have a worse tank, they are less likely to report that...
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Aslo consider that like anything else, if it DOES work theres no doubt at all that it would vary a lot from vehicle to vehicle depednding on a huge list of things including how old and dirty the engine is. If it does clean out deposits it's obviously going to work a lot better on a car with 100k than with 10. So that could account for most of the people who get no results. that would mean i won't see any. then again, those who see no results may if used regularly for years might have found thier engine running better and cleaner. thats something you'd never know unless you ran 2 identical vehicles side by side for years one with and one without. Seriously, i could go on forever about why some see no benefits. Many of the arguments being undeniable like that last example. but the only benefits that matter really are the ones you see because if you see none who's going to keep using it?

Do keep in mind that people swear there is a god too and there is no evidence of that at all.
That point is moot point because there is no evidence of god that is undeniable. It cannot be proven. If a person uses MMO and sees 4 MPG improvement while using it all else being equal, thats undeniable proof if they can consistently recreate it. In a court of law that would be considered beyond reasonable doubt easily. If i get a few more MPG and i see that result always while using it, thats proof. If i get 4 MPG better on my first tank with it, that means nothing. But i'm not about to believe that the many, and there are a LOT who cite better MPG are all deceiving themselves or that none have fully tested it over time where it cannot be denied.20 tanks with and 20 w/o showing an average increase over all is proof and there is no argument against that. The argument here and now is because no one here has tried it and proven it. When i test it i will prove or disprove it on my bike at least. But till then i refuse to believe 100% either way when there are a million reasons you can come up with on either side of the debate and not one can be used as undeniable proof. Thats why i'm trying it....i not only don't believe in things w/o proof, i don't DIS-BELIEVE things w/o proof. i may lean one way or another, but thats it. Like i said, i lean towards what you are saying but i don't believe either way thil it's been proven by ME.

Studies at fuel and lubrication companies have not seen MMO or many of the additive worth consideration of adding to fuel or motor oils. That should tell you something right there.
that doesn't tell me anything other than there are endless possibilities why, none of which we can be sure of. I also don't assume thats true because to believe everything you hear from big companies or govt is foolish. The govt also lies to us because there are things they don't want us to know for thier or our good. Again, you're assuming things you cannot know. And again, i don't believe or dis-believe till i have proof.
 

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Anybody want to buy a bridge? Hundreds to choice from! Post non-Rapture clearance sale!!!!
I agree Engage.


Seriously, with CAFE standards in the US, don't you think the Big 3...I mean 2 would be adding magnets and recommending MMO or such to make up the difference? I mean a 10%+ increase with no engineering required.....:rolleyes:
As far as extra lubrication, let's give the Triumph engineers who came up with our lucrication systems some credit as well as the engineers at Mobil, Castrol, et al. True, ethanol does wash down the cylinder walls- a bad thing, but so does plain gasoline. Anyone ever use gasoline to clean greasy hands?

And yes, ethanol has less BTUs than gasoline and since heat is what makes power, there is less. Besides the nasty drying effect on any part of the system that has butyl rubber, seals, tubing, etc.
EthanolOne GGE (gasoline gallon equivalent) of ethanol is 1.5 gallons. This volume of ethanol has the same energy content as one US gallon of gasoline. This is because a gallon of ethanol has a lower heat value or energy content (76,100 BTU) when compared to a gallon of gasoline (114,100 BTU).

Something else to consider...if the whole purpose is to save money we spend on traveling, if we add another 4 bucks for MMO to a tankful, that's still the same as another gallon of fuel....that's like 25% savings in a 4 gallon tank.
10% savings using MMO or 25% savings not using...Hmmmm.

Tank of gas at $4.00 per gallon-$16.00 to go 120 miles
Tank of gas at $4.00+ $4.00 for MMO- $20 to go 132 miles.
or another way to look at it, Spend the same $20 and go 150 miles with just gas......
 

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Daz, you've talked about the possibility that MMO cleans the injectors. Why not just buy an injector product?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have a very firm belief that things that look too good to be true are too good to be true. Given that belief, I'm trying to save people time, frustration and money...
 
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