Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

Instrument Cluster for 1050

12K views 35 replies 13 participants last post by  donnabarr.5869 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey everyone, I recently picked up a Sprint that I've been doing a little bit of work on. The fairings were rather destroyed and given the price of new ones I decided to go for a naked bike look. I've pretty much got it all figured out except for one thing, and that's the instrument cluster. I've found almost no good way to mount the factory cluster that will actually look half way decent. I would just ride without it hooked up at all given that an rpm gauge isn't terribly important to me, and I can used my phone for a speedometer, but without the cluster plugged in the turn signals on the motorcycle won't work. My main question comes down to one of two things. Does anyone know of any cheaper aftermarket clusters that have simple mounting methods and will work with the bike, or is there any way to make the turn signals work without the cluster plugged up?
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#2 ·
………is there any way to make the turn signals work without the cluster plugged up?
Turn signals should work without the instrument cluster connected. Obviously, you won’t have the little left/right dash signal but, looking at the wiring diagram, I don’t see why they wouldn’t work without the cluster. If they don’t then maybe you have a wiring issue somewhere else.

Does anyone know of any cheaper aftermarket clusters that have simple mounting methods and will work with the bike
The 1050 instruments use CAN bus communications. That means instead of individual signals for speed, rpm, fuel, temp, trip computer, etc, the signals come from the ECU via just two wires (red & blue). I can’t say for sure, but don’t think you can get aftermarket instruments that will work with the Sprint system. Maybe a set of instruments from a Speed Triple with the same Keihin ECU will work.

If you still have a working original Sprint instrument cluster then maybe the answer is to find a suitable flyscreen to cover them. It’ll solve your instrument problem and improve the look of the bike. Definitely better than a sketchy phone-for-speedo solution.
 
#3 ·
Hi,
I'm just thinking online (which is always dangerous), but think this could look pretty good if properly executed.

I think you could use an older tablet/phone, weatherproof case and an OBDII bluetooth/wifi connector as a replacement cluster. You could load/run a "Torque style" app, create a display you like and buy/build a mount for it. You could probably even have Tune ECU loaded if you went Android, which would allow you to reset any CEL's that popped up.

You would probably want to hard wire the charging circuit, which would mean that battery condition for the tablet/phone wouldn't be very important. I'm not sure if anyone has tried this, but I can't see why it wouldn't work?
Good luck, BB
 
#4 ·
Ah, yeah. Went out and was fiddling around today, seems like the turn signals do work. I know my switch on the bars can be a little finicky so maybe it was just acting up when I tried it last time. Using a tablet or old phone isn't too terrible of an idea, I might try to look into that. I do have the factory cluster still but after looking at different ways I could mount it I'm pretty empty on ideas. Maybe I'll be able to figure something out though, wasn't really planning on running a windscreen because I'm really not sure what I could use that would mount up and look decent. Thanks for the input though, it threw a couple more ideas into my head. I'd love to just return the bike to a full fairing, but the price is just waaaaay too much for my blood.
 
#5 ·
#6 · (Edited)
The OEM gauges will mount up, using part T2070302, which you may actually have in your pile of parts. However, it may look like hell w/o the cockpit. What about some sort of bikini fairing to cover the ugliness? I really like the factory gauge cluster on the 1050s, especially the multi-function computer. I miss it on my 955i Sprints.

Bonus on using this part is it has hard bosses for mounting mirrors to it.
 

Attachments

#7 ·
Hi all.

For a reason that I'll list when this mod is done has anyone have an idea if 2011 daytona 675 gauges will match up to a 2005 sprint st? The plug is that same (not that this means anything) and I've had no luck sourcing a pic of the 675 wiring diagram for that exact year (2011) so that I can try and match connectors to the gauges.

Obviously the fuel gauge won't work as the daytona in that year didn't have one, other than that I'm going to risk it. Just that the bike is in pieces at the moment and I can't check this. Hoping I get lucky and someone has done this or has a better idea than me.

Cheers from OZ
 
#8 ·
Looking at the two schematics, the pin numbering is (almost exactly) reversed for each row i.e. 1 is 8, 9 is 16 and vice versa
Now - what is bizarre is that the schematics show similar reverse pin numbering convention on the earlier 955 Sprints vs 955 Speed Triple/Daytona - but I know for fact that the actual wiring is 100% compatible.
So I think the Sprint Electrical Designer simply has the pin convention for the connector starting with the wrong end (but it actually ends up correct even though he called the pin numbers out incorrectly)
Just be careful - I know 100% this to be the case with the 955 gauges and I am just assuming the same error made with the 1050 schematic - but it is awfully coincidental that the pin numbering is EXACTLY reversed.
There are other differences which may - or not - affect how it works:
On the later Speedo, the ECU does a 'hand-shake' - this is initiated by the ECU so may not be a problem;
the 675 gauge has the starter signal input on pin 10 - which would be 15 on the Sprint schematic) - and this input is unused on the Sprint
Similarly 13 & 14 on Sprint are tied to ground - this would be 11 & 12 on the Daytona convention and these are shown as being used.

The main problem might be in how the Daytona gauge decodes the CANBUS data stream which is going to have different data than the Sprint
 
#9 ·
This is awesome info, cheers! Looks like it'll be suck and see.

Anyone got a direction to find just the 2011 daytona wiring diagram?

I've got the Haynes manual for the sprint with the wiring diagram so I'd like to check if I run into a issue which may can the whole thing either way. My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the ECU on later models is matched to the gauges. However later gauges can be used on earlier models I think as the ECU locks this out.
 
#11 ·
I would bet the ecu is identifying/checking the cluster type via can...
There is no check on that generation Sprint ECU - you can start/run the bike with no cluster connected at all .........

A Speed Triple cluster might have been a better starting point ......... but already committed at this point I think
 
#15 ·
I'm going down the same route myself, but it seems my '07 ST requires the handshake with the ECU. I'm wondering whether a Speed Triple or Daytona 675 dash would work. On another thread there was talk of a 120 ohm resister bridging the red and blue CANbus wires, but I'll need to read it again to see if that's a work-around in this case, or just a way to get the bike to start without a dash fitted.
 
#16 ·
had a think about this a bit today -
I could do a CANbus to standard gauge converter -
really its just an arduino with a can bus controller interface - it would need to emulate the stock gauges and output pulse timings and analog values
for driving standard gauge clusters / aftermarket gauges.

This would allow for reuse of sprints / other 1050s that have met untimely ends due to front end mishaps - (not talking about units with rselectable ride control modes etc for the moment) to be cafe / streetfighter / chopper whatever converted.

question is - is it worthwhile ?

rayman
 
#17 ·
If there was a plug and play to get over the ECU/instrument hand shake, I'd buy it. The Street Triple/D675 dash works, if I hot swap once running (as previous posters have noted). L&R indicators are reversed on the dash, but otherwise OK. Tacho, shift lights, gear position indicators - all seem good, except the bloody ECU won't fire up the fuel and starter without the original dash.:mad:
 
#23 ·
I don't believe from the info that Ive seen that they are "paired" -
it seems that the first model 1050s might start without the dash connected -
the latter ones - like mine - 2010 - have a handshake of some sort -
and I believe the ECUS from 2013+ have a keyed handshake - to unlock.

At this stage - I made up the Arduino nano + can interface on the weekend and have it receiving all the info as a listener-
- its also outputting a RPM pulse to drive another piece of electronics trying to measure the rpm ( gear indicator function) as the RPM signal from the spark plugs is not stable - the ECU doesn't fire plugs or injectors all the time when coasting or in very light loads - explains the sprints fuel economy and helps keep the temperature of the COPS down.

Anyway - i need to grab some more logs tonight to try and sort out the handshake between the dash and ECU - but I have all the pieces in place - just need to work out the handshake and I'll have a unit that allows running without the dash -

why - .. maybe i just might put a 1050 engine into the 955 sprint .....

Rayman
 
#24 ·
ok - havent got to the logging just yet - did dsome optimising of the code to allow it to cope properly with the 500 or so can bus messages a second while printing them out to the serial trace and doing the rpm output as well.

as this would have caused issues with any potential handhake - had to make up another unit to emulate the ECU message stream - to test with - the ability of my 4ch CRO to read and decode canbus has been quite handy...

hopefully get somewhere on the weekend.

Cheers
Rayman
 
#25 ·
some success - grabbed some logs - and realised that the 0x569 message is generated by the dash as well as the 0x530 -
so put a fixed 0x569 message in ( as Ive seen no indication as yet to what it actually is ) snooped from when it works with the dash connected -
result - bike starts and runs without dash - but the indications are this might only work for 2007 - 2008 through to 2013 ecus which arent "paired" not handshaked.

calling it limitted sucess at this point

rayman
 
#26 ·
calling it limitted sucess at this point
If I've understood everything in this thread so far, there's no great solution for a cluster swap for the models that handshake? I have a 2007 Sprint 1050 that will not start with the cluster unplugged. I would like to swap to the 675 gauge cluster, but from the other posts, it sounds like they are hot swappable but the bike still won't start without the original cluster. Anyone have any success changing to anything else?
 
#29 ·
on the ones that dont do a keyed handshake - I dont think it actually cares about the contents ofthe 0x569 - just that its there !
All I sent was a fixed 2E, 02as that was one of the captured values -

what I was able to get sorted is attached.
 

Attachments

#31 ·
tobias has the key thing figured out but was trying to do a paid for product, so was protective of the information and I don't have a need or suitable bike to figure it out. i do have three dashes and 2 ecus, but they are both unkeyed variants if you end up needing more data.
 
#33 ·
heres something from terry

The 05/06 and some early 2007 1050 S3s and Sprints had no canbus so handshaking. They would start and run without an instrument cluster. This makes sense because they had the v1 Keihin ECU. Sometime in '07 the v2 Keihin ECU was introduced. Now, I happened to know the warranty manager at what was then the largest Triumph dealer in Sydney. I just happened to be at the dealership one day when they were uncrating and PDIing some 07 models. Each bike came with a sealed envelope containing a unique 'Model Identification Code'. When the bikes were first switched on they wouldn't start. The 'Triumph Diagnostic Tool' had to be connected at which point it requested the unique code be keyed in. And you only got one chance to do this! This code forever identified the bike as a Speed Triple or as a Sprint. Not only that it also identified the colour of the bike. This why you can't easily switch ECUs around from '07 onwards. A white Speed Triple ECU will not accept a cluster off a blue Sprint or indeed any Sprint. Sounds bizarre doesn't it but that's why if you try an order a new cluster from Triumph not only do they want the model and the VIN they also want the colour. Have a look at this link from World of triumph and you'll see what I mean.




www.worldoftriumph.com


1000345-0-2
Instruments gt322890 Fusion White gt323245 Roulette Green gt323408 Jet Black

www.worldoftriumph.com
www.worldoftriumph.com




Now this routine seems to have been dropped at some point, maybe early '08. Certainly they didn't do it when the 1050 Tiger was introduced. How do I know this. Because I had reason to try and solve the appallingly snatchy fueling on the first 1050 Tigers. And one of the things we did was to try and put S3 mapping into the Tiger. But of course the bikes wouldn't run without the associated cluster. We worked out that the most rudimentary canbus handshake simply disabled the starter circuit. The bikes would run if you bypassed the starter circuit and jumped it. But then a different ECU/cluster combination wouldn't even run when you bypassed the starter circuit so the canbus handshake on some ECU/cluster combinations also disabled the ignition circuit. Whether this was because the clusters I was playing with were from the first '07 models with the 'Model Identification Code' I don't know. In fact I never worked out if that unique 'Model Identification Code' was stored in the cluster or the ECU.

Long winded I know, and probably not very helpful, but maybe this info will at least be of interest. I note you say you're working with a pre-2013 1050. That complicates things even more because it means you're dealing with both the early 3 button clusters and the later 2 button clusters which I suspect had even more canbus handshaking protocols because of all the additional features.

Pity you weren't around when I was dicking around with all this stuff, it was hard doing it alone and whenever I asked a question noone knew even knew what I was on about Good luck.
 
#34 · (Edited)
and i had replied with

ok - some success - I put in a reply to the 00x519 message - ie the speed message - just for timing - as these only come when powered up -
I replies with the 0x569 message - with 0x2E 0x02 -- which is one of the values observed when snooping with the running dash - but with the dash disconnected -
turn on - primes !!
crank - RUNS !

tried 3 times - all starts -
so I'm not sure if its just that mine doesnt care about a code but just needs the 0x569 coming back as well as the 0x530 form the dash to make it happy ?
this would be consistent maybe with the "dropped routine" ....

some progress but maybe not the whole story yet ...
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top