[TB-T100]

Hi

I just got myself an Innovate LM-2 kit. As my bike has had a few mods (see signature), and is about to get a radical new exhaust system (from Mean Machines in Australia) it was time to get the jetting process right

So, obviously some questions spring to mind. Maybe some of the Innovate-crowd here can help out.

According to this thread http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/154557-how-do-you-log-throttle-position-with-lm2-f-logger.html
one can get RPMs and TPS data directly from wiring up the analogue-I/O-wire. However, it is also possible to get the RPMs from a "clip-on" wire. What did you other guys do? And did you also log the TPS data? What about the wiring, do you leave it on the bike between sessions?

 

[H3CT1C]

Easy.

Get these. Sorry, Swedish is the closest I can get to Norwegian. :^P

Peel back the sleaving on the TPS sensor cable (runs from right-hand side of carbs) near the plug and add a connector to the green/yellow wire.

Peel back the sleaving on the cables that run to the CDI / igniter box - add a connector to the red wire at pin 15 of the igniter that feeds the tacho (RPM).

On the cable DEcosse mentioned (in the thread you mentioned), connect spade connectors (to fit the "Skarvklämmor" that you've just fitted) to two wires - black/white is RPM+ and plugs into the connector near the igniter, and analogue in 1 + (purple) is now TPS+ and plugs into the connector on the TPS cable Join the RPM- cable (blue) and analogue in 1 - (black) and make sure they have a good earth (battery negative).

You might want to colour code all the connectors... I didn't

Job done.

You'll need to read the manual that DEcosse linked to (in the thread you mentioned) in order to calibrate the LM-2 (for TPS - what voltage represents throttle 0% open and what voltage represents throttle 100% open), but it's really easy!!!

 

[TB-T100]

Thanks. Everything is wired now. So, next question:

Others have reported that the power from the battery can "drop out". So, they have a separate battery (together with the LM-2 in a tankbag or suchplace).

I've found these cheapo-ones:
http://www.clasohlson.com/no/Blybatteri,/Pr363019000

So, obviously I need the 12V version, but how many Amps? 1.3 or 2.2 or 7.2?

 

[Ventura]

I have my MTX-L in a tank-bag.

I used a 12V computer back-up battery which allows quite a bit of gauge operation between charges.

I did it this way so I could make it completely self contained and fully portable, and could easily be swapped between bikes, including + earth machines.

Works well for me!!

PM sent TB










V.

 

[propforward]

I chose to power my LM-2 directly from the bike battery.

I wired a 12V car style outlet directly to the battery, and then plugged the LM2 12V adapter in to that. I found this worked very well.

Powering from the Triumph aux socket under the tank did not work, as there were enough voltage fluctuations to cause drop out.

Since then, I have added a whole fuseblock, so now I have cut the 12V plug off the LM2, and just use spade terminals to the accessory fuse block I wired in. This works too.

I forget what the current draw on the LM2 is - I'll need to figure that out in order to recommend a battery to power it.

Otherwise just go with the 7.2 Ah - which is the capacity - ie it would last for 7.2 hours at 1 amp drain at 12V (for example).

None of these batteries will "dump" more current into the LM2 than it can use - the LM2 will simply draw off as much current as required, for as long as it can.

So you need to figure out how long you want to use the LM2 at any time, and what its current draw is.

Pieman probably already knows that info, he's used the LM2 a LOT.

 

[PieMan]

I had problems in the first couple of weeks connecting to the aux socket under the tank, the vibration at higher revs caused momentary disconnects between the plug and socket and logging sessions were lost due to this. I have never used a separate battery to power the LM-2, just a direct connection to the battery through a water proof electrical connector which enables me to remove the unit between uses, this has worked well.

Although I have no experience powering the LM-2 through an external battery, I would have thought a YUASA YTX4L-BS or something similar would be more than adequate to power it for a 2-3 hours. Enjoy the LM-2, it's a great piece of kit.

 

[TB-T100]

Thanks guys. You rock!

 

[NorthernThrux]

I powered mine directly from the battery as well. As Pieman mentioned, the socket doesn't stay seated in the aux plug and it disconnects at the most frustrating times. And if you are logging when this happens it can corrupt the SD card. You can use a wire to tie it together, but the best thing is direct to the battery. I went through my Eastern Beaver fusebox, and if I recall, I used a 10A fuse.

 

[TB-T100]

So, here is part of the ride today. Can anybody make any sense of it ?

Current setup is:
TPUSA 904 cc
TPUSA 813 cams
TPUSA port and polish (oversized valves)
TPUSA high-comp pistons
Pieman igniter
Mean Machines pipes

Jetting: 145, 42, no shims



firstrun01 by Thor Bostad, on Flickr

The lines are AFR, RPM and TPS (haven't converted this to % yet. will have to find out how).

So, what do I do with the jetting?

 

[TB-T100]

And here we are just cruising along at approx 110 km/h


firstrun02 by Thor Bostad, on Flickr

 

[TB-T100]

MikeinVA advised me to go down on jet size (one, or probably two sizes). I have only had time to go down one size (from 145 to 140) so far. Here is the run:

 

[PieMan]

What needles are you running?

 

[TB-T100]

What needles are you running?

Stock. And these are the original CRs on what used to be a 2004 790 T100.

 

[NorthernThrux]

The TPS scaling is easy. Go to the right channel in Logworks and enter the right values for the max and min voltages from the TPS and select the scale as 0-1 for example. To get the tps values, just turn your ignition on and note the TPS voltage value with the throttle untouched and then turn the grip to full throttle and see what it goes to. That defines your 0% and 100%.

If I am reading your graphs right, you are cracking open your throttle, allowing the revs to climb and reading the the AFR. That's not the right way to do this (or not the way I do it). Look at some dyno runs on youtube. They all do a slow and gradual roll on of the throttle, so that you are always in a steady state and not a transient response.

Also, you should plot AFR vs TPS (i.e. throttle opening) under load. Find an isolated road, get into 3rd gear and then slowly roll on the throttle till you get to redline. I do it over 15-20 seconds. That's how all the fueling is worked out. Once you have that, its easier to see what is going on.

Hope that helps. Keep your eye out on traffic. It's easy to get carried away looking at the gauge and slam into a slow moving farm vehicle in front of you !


Sent from my Motorcycle iPad app

 

[PieMan]

CV carbs are a pain when trying to get a decent AFR due to the lack of available adjustment, you tend to have to compromise in some areas. If you get a good AFR at WOT, your cruise will not be where you want it and if you get your cruise OK, your WOT is off.

Try going back to a 40 pilot jet and 150 mains first and see how that looks, you may need to add a shim or two later. This will lean up the mid range and make it quicker, but keep the top end AFR.

 

[mikeinva]

send me this file let me see what it did. The charts are to jumpy to tell much when you play them back you can get a better a/f readinf at wot at max rpm his first chart showed 12.0 at max rpm on play back.

 

[mikeinva]

I thought you got fcrs you are still running cv carbs?

 

[TB-T100]

The TPS scaling is easy. Go to the right channel in Logworks and enter the right values for the max and min voltages from the TPS and select the scale as 0-1 for example. To get the tps values, just turn your ignition on and note the TPS voltage value with the throttle untouched and then turn the grip to full throttle and see what it goes to. That defines your 0% and 100%.

If I am reading your graphs right, you are cracking open your throttle, allowing the revs to climb and reading the the AFR. That's not the right way to do this (or not the way I do it). Look at some dyno runs on youtube. They all do a slow and gradual roll on of the throttle, so that you are always in a steady state and not a transient response.

Also, you should plot AFR vs TPS (i.e. throttle opening) under load. Find an isolated road, get into 3rd gear and then slowly roll on the throttle till you get to redline. I do it over 15-20 seconds. That's how all the fueling is worked out. Once you have that, its easier to see what is going on.

Hope that helps. Keep your eye out on traffic. It's easy to get carried away looking at the gauge and slam into a slow moving farm vehicle in front of you !


Sent from my Motorcycle iPad app

I guess the TPS scaling has to be done with the LM2 powered up, and connected to a laptop with USB. I'll get to it soon.

Yes, that is how I believe it should be done. Next time out, I'll try to do it both ways and post both charts. I'm a total tuning-novice so any suggestions are very helpful

The LM2 is in a tailpack, so I don't pay any attention to it while I ride. Just start it for the run, pay attention to throttle, traffice, tacho. Definitely don't want to hit any farm vehicles, badgers or speed-cameras.

CV carbs are a pain when trying to get a decent AFR due to the lack of available adjustment, you tend to have to compromise in some areas. If you get a good AFR at WOT, your cruise will not be where you want it and if you get your cruise OK, your WOT is off.

Try going back to a 40 pilot jet and 150 mains first and see how that looks, you may need to add a shim or two later. This will lean up the mid range and make it quicker, but keep the top end AFR.

I'll have to get some pilot jets from my dealer, before I can try that. But, are you really sure I should go up on mains?

I thought you got fcrs you are still running cv carbs?

Unfortunately, yes. I like to do mods incremental (and am on a budget), so it might be next Winter's project

Thanks for the reading of the file I sent you, Mike. I may or may not be able to do another run this week - the weather forecast is totally crap, and Wednesday morning I'm off to London on business.

 

[PieMan]

I'll have to get some pilot jets from my dealer, before I can try that. But, are you really sure I should go up on mains?

When you increase or decrease the pilots, it effects the fuelling at all throttle openings. At lower throttle openings the pilots play a bigger part, but at WOT the pilots still contribute a few percent of the total fuelling.

 

[NorthernThrux]

TPS scaling is only done in logworks as far as I recollect. The LM2 only records voltages. Once you download your data to Logworks, then you can set the scale parameters for min and max and the conversion to %.