Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

Inherited 1972 bonneville

4K views 39 replies 18 participants last post by  StuartMac 
#1 ·
Hi its a bit bitter sweet I've just inherited a 1972 bonneville 649 from my dad who I only got in contact with 3 years ago and he sadly passed away from covid late last year and at the weekend I took delivery of his bonneville which was his favourite bike, it hasn't run for about 10 years and my dad was going to restore it when he retired so had brought all the parts needed to get it up and running although I'm still waiting for them as they are still clearing out his garage to find all the parts for the bike.

When the bike was put away I was in full working order and I want to fully restore it to working order just after some advice on where to start. The engine turns over ok on the kick start and I've brought myself the Haynes and workshop manual just trying to get an idea of where to start
Tire Wheel Fuel tank Automotive fuel system Vehicle
Fuel tank Tire Wheel Vehicle Automotive lighting
Tire Wheel Fuel tank Automotive fuel system Vehicle
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Automotive fuel system Motorcycle Vehicle
 
See less See more
3
#10 ·
Hi Daniel, thoughts are with you for the sad loss of your dad, it's good you have a connection through his machine and I'm sure he'd be pleased it's in your keeping. Classic bikes are a little like dogs I think. Though we like to think we own them, they are merely in our custody and reward us with how we treat and respect them.
There will be plenty of knowledgeable advice available here should you require it. I would first be tempted to simply check the machines fluids and ride-ability regarding safety and use it as it is until you have an impression of it's foibles before doing anything to it's character.
I'm sure you will find things along the line that are required, few machines are perfect or customized to suit each preference.
Best regards.
 
#11 · (Edited)
It has been modified quite a lot. Out of respect, i would tidy it up and keep it as your dad enjoyed it. It will be happy in the UK without air filters. I have not used filters for many years. I would, and have an oil filter fitted on my 1971 bike. Plenty of knowledge here especially on the 650 twins. Regarding the Haynes book, it is useful as there are some sections that you can compare against other publications. I use a factory manual, a Clymer, a Haynes and a factory parts book and all are useful. i rarely have to read much out of them as i have worked on the same year T120r since 1978. I use them to check some figures. I can take it apart and refit all parts of the bike from previous experience. Looking forward to see some better pictures.

Welcome to this excellent forum Daniel.
 
#12 ·
Our brotherly condolences on the passing of your Dad, he seems to be of the best sort, owning a nicely loved Triumph big twin.

Some have said to clean it up as a "sympathetic" restoration to the happiest state your Dad had it in, others may say to thoroughly refurbish or restore it, still others might go so far as to say it would make a great bobber/scrambler/whatever. There is no wrong advice in any of those options, it is entirely up to you. If it's an opinion poll, I vote sympathetic restoration as best remembered. (you can always change it up later)

As to getting it going, you won't miss any details if you breeze thru this: Waking the Sleeping Beast
Be aware some specifics refer to the triple, yours is the twin, so consult the shop manual.

You'll find no shortage of assistance, resources, and camaraderie here; so get on with it!
 
#13 · (Edited)
I think dad was a bit of a sporting rider. He has made it lighter, easier breathing and has a catch tank on the engine breather so i assume it was ridden hard. Isle of Man sticker gives a good idea of how he was when younger. It has his DNA living in that bike. Get it running and enjoy what he built. I enjoyed a visit and ride around the Isle of Man TT course. Would be nice to put that bike around it again.. Take a break at the Joey Dunlop memorial and have a nice walk around Laxey. Good Italian restaurant in Laxey too. i went to Milton Keynes recently, to the Museum with the Enigma history.
 
#16 · (Edited)
That is standard fitting brake rod for a 72 model. Odd that it has part of another brake adjuster added for some reason.That bike has some very nice period parts fitted and i guess your Dad knew quite a bit about these bikes. It looks like a Hyde oil cooler is fitted. The Hyde part might be an oil Thermostat for the oil cooler. I cannot see the cooler though. It has an external oil filter. Strange position but that was his choice of location. Possibly fitted so it gets some air cooling.
The crankcases look to be from an older bike as the engine number is not on a raised pad. The engine breather added to the primary case might also confirm it is an earlier set of cases and it might even be a 650 engine. Rear shocks are fitted upside down. These gas shocks may be Hagon and can be fitted upside down although i prefer the other way up. Not sure if any advantages with that arrangement.
Look at the carbs and find the number as looking at the manifolds, i think maybe he has fitted 32mm Amals.
You may well have a very well tuned engine in that bike so more looking around needed by people here.
It is a well thought out bike having years of alterations carried out. That aluminium reverse cone megaphone will sound perfect.
Edit, i just noticed the Hyde oil cooler, it looks like a spring between the frame tubes at the front.
That is a magical bike.
 
#21 ·
Hi Daniel,

Belated welcome to the Forum. :)

My condolences also.
The Hyde part might be an oil Thermostat for the oil cooler.
(y)

the Hyde oil cooler, it looks like a spring between the frame tubes at the front.
The infamous "bog brush". ;) Be aware it, and therefore the thermostat (and the hoses to it making the tank difficult to fit ...) are of little value to the engine. At one time, it was believed the OIF ran 'hot', because the engine oil quantity was reduced to 4 pints from the pre-OIF five pints. In reality, not only is the OIF large-diameter frame tube an excellent oil cooler, the twin's pump doesn't pump the oil fast enough for the oil circulation to be part of the engine cooling (unlike the triples).

engine number does say it is from a 68 TR6C
The engine breather added to the primary case might also confirm it is an earlier set of cases and it might even be a 650 engine.
As standard, pre-70 twins kept the primary and crankcase lubrication separate, with a seal on the drive-side main bearing; the crankcase vent shows as a steel spigot exiting the crankcase by the gearbox sprocket. A contemporary tuning mod. was to drill one or more small holes through the casting between primary and crankcase, leave out the main bearing seal, the crankcase then vented through the primary, hence the adapter and hose screwed into the primary filler.

When servicing, the primary is drained and it's replaced with a small quantity of fresh oil; this mod confirmed, it'll require any fresh oil in the primary to be the same as the engine oil.

Rear shocks are fitted upside down. These gas shocks may be Hagon
Girling - Triumph's original rear suspension supplier - made the original "gas shocks" for these bikes, Hagon was able to make them because Alf took over the Girling stuff when the latter pulled out. Aside, be aware this has nothing to do with the "Girling" pimped by Wassell today.

Not sure if any advantages with that arrangement.
Gas shocks. have to be fitted that way up so the gas stays above the oil ... ;) Also makes the spring preloader a bit more accessible.

Hth.

Regards,
 
#20 ·
After doing some checking and talking to one of his friends you are correct the engine number does say it is from a 68 TR6C the original engine is still in his garage and his friend is unsure or can't remember why it was changed. But after his garage is cleared out i will be getting all the original parts and replacement parts for the bike. And after doing some investigating found images from the day he brought the bike and it looks like it was a ex uk police bike as when he brought the bike it had the police bike body still fitted
Tire Wheel Plant Sky Automotive tire
 
#22 ·
I would agree that an oil cooler is a waste of time on an oif bike. Luckily, if the thermostat works, there will be no extra cooling taking place. I might take that lot off as it is just not needed on a road bike at all in the UK.
Lets see it when it runs again.
 
#23 ·
Hi its a bit bitter sweet I've just inherited a 1972 bonneville 649 from my dad who I only got in contact with 3 years ago and he sadly passed away from covid late last year and at the weekend I took delivery of his bonneville which was his favourite bike, it hasn't run for about 10 years and my dad was going to restore it when he retired so had brought all the parts needed to get it up and running although I'm still waiting for them as they are still clearing out his garage to find all the parts for the bike.

When the bike was put away I was in full working order and I want to fully restore it to working order just after some advice on where to start. The engine turns over ok on the kick start and I've brought myself the Haynes and workshop manual just trying to get an idea of where to start
View attachment 757285 View attachment 757286 View attachment 757285 View attachment 757287
"When the bike was put away I was in full working order." Good to hear. I'm struggling with that myself.
 
#26 ·
Hi its a bit bitter sweet I've just inherited a 1972 bonneville 649 from my dad who I only got in contact with 3 years ago and he sadly passed away from covid late last year and at the weekend I took delivery of his bonneville which was his favourite bike, it hasn't run for about 10 years and my dad was going to restore it when he retired so had brought all the parts needed to get it up and running although I'm still waiting for them as they are still clearing out his garage to find all the parts for the bike.

When the bike was put away I was in full working order and I want to fully restore it to working order just after some advice on where to start. The engine turns over ok on the kick start and I've brought myself the Haynes and workshop manual just trying to get an idea of where to start
View attachment 757285 View attachment 757286 View attachment 757285 View attachment 757287
Well it’s obvious to me why the brake rod is slightly askew. With shocks in the stock position the rod would clear no problem . Flipped the spring coils foul the area. I would leave it . The bike looks like it was ridden hard by someone that knew what they were doing.
Same for the velocity stacks. My guess is the carbs were tuned with those stacks and that wonderful reverse cone 2 into one exhaust . I strongly suggest not ripping things apart .
the seat . Hmmm . Well my guess is it’s lighter than the original. It also allowed you dad to move around in racing positions.
get it to run . Then do whatever is needed for safe riding .
your dad had great taste if he liked BSA too!
 
#27 ·
Hi its a bit bitter sweet I've just inherited a 1972 bonneville 649 from my dad who I only got in contact with 3 years ago and he sadly passed away from covid late last year and at the weekend I took delivery of his bonneville which was his favourite bike, it hasn't run for about 10 years and my dad was going to restore it when he retired so had brought all the parts needed to get it up and running although I'm still waiting for them as they are still clearing out his garage to find all the parts for the bike.

When the bike was put away I was in full working order and I want to fully restore it to working order just after some advice on where to start. The engine turns over ok on the kick start and I've brought myself the Haynes and workshop manual just trying to get an idea of where to start
View attachment 757285 View attachment 757286 View attachment 757285 View attachment 757287
Some advice from my own experience with getting an old bike up and running after many years laid up. Returned to UK after 30 years living and working in Africa and got my '73 Commando 850 back into action after a 30 year sleep. Like yours , mine was put away in good running order. First objective was to get it going with the minimum work to assess what further might be needed - changed all oils / new filter , unseized front disc break , pumped up tires , new battery , fresh fuel and after half a dozen swings of the kickstart she fired up. Went for ride and apart from a slipping clutch bike went surprisingly well. After that it was just a logical step by step sorting the bike to get it through an MOT (happily no longer required under Historic DVLA registration).
 
#29 ·
OK it's a few months later, after finding some time I drained all the oils and re topped up everything according to the the workshop manual, cleaned out the fuel tank, changed all the fuel pipes and Stripped down and cleaned the carbs, changed the spark plugs and put a new battery in it, the electrics seem sound. All the lights come on but I get nothing when try I try to start it, I tried to start it before I cleaned the carbs and it did very briefly start to turn over. It still has the original kick start and the ignition isn't modified. Any ideas what I'm missing?
 
#31 ·
Hi Daniel, First is check for spark at both plugs, if you’ve not done so. I’d clean points in any case if not cleaned them yet. So long as you see points open/closing after cleaning & have spark, don’t worry too much about gap & timing just yet.

Dry rings will make bike very hard to nearly impossible to start. Remove plugs. Put about 2 tablespoons down each plug hole. Kick motor slowly a few times. Give it a few hours. Kick briskly several times to eject excess oil. It will come out plug holes & a lot will go into exhaust. So expect smoke on start up, then lots as exhaust heats. About 20 min all oil in exhaust will burn out.

Make sure you tickle carbs freely. Gas running right down side of carb & dripping down onto motor. 3-5 seconds.

Kick it quite hard. You want fastest cranking speed.

I don’t recall, did you clean carbs yet? The idle circuit usually clogs badly during storage. Motor will fire on tickle fuel, then not want to stay running. End of day carbs generally need removing, fill tear down & cleaning.

If carbs still have plastic floats they should be replaced with stayup black plastic with metal arms, plus viton tipped aluminum needle. But short term you can often get motor running on the old floats. Carb work is another subject. Try oiling the rings after spark has tested good. In all cases rings should be oiled after prolonged storage.
Don
 
#34 ·
Cool! That settles that. So if you have spark you have spark. It might be assumed timing was set. Look up manufacturers web site. You should see the control box somewhere. It will show how to set static timing by looking for paint dot through a hole in pickup plate with motor set to 38b.

I’m guessing you have spark. Make sure battery is a good battery & fully charged. Low voltage will often cause timing to go wacky & bike will be very hard to impossible to start.

If you have spark, move to oiling the rings.
Don
 
#36 ·
Hi Daniel,
if you have spark you have spark. It might be assumed timing was set.
Nope.

Make sure battery is a good battery & fully charged.
(y) To be clearer, 'good' well-calibrated Volt- or multi-meter connected across the battery:-

. should display 12.6V when everything is switched off;

. should not display less than 12.5V when just the ignition is switched on.

Be aware, when you find the electronics "Box", it's probably a Boyer-Bransden (but Pazon or Wassell are essentially clones). If labelled for a British twin, they all have a :mad: pita 'feature' that powers-down the ignition coils if the Box doesn't 'detect engine movement' (varying signals from the trigger unit because kicking over the engine turns the magnets mounted on the end of the exhaust camshaft) within a few seconds of being powered-up. As I say, absolute pita when trouble-shooting; while you have a meter connected across the battery, the power-down should manifest itself at the meter display returning to the 'switched off' Volts.

Turning to your photo. in your post #33:-

The Black/White and Black/Yellow wires on the plate are different colours for a reason. When you find the electronics Box, two of the wires out of it will be the same Black/White and Black/Yellow.

It is not a good idea to use different colours - and especially both wires the same colour 😖 - to connect the plate and the Box together. Reason is, if you accidentally connect the Black/White plate wire to the Black/Yellow Box wire and vice versa, the timing will be wildly-out - while you might see a spark, the engine won't start ... now, where have I read that before ...? ;)

I loathe those red- (and blue- and yellow-) insulated squash-on terminals, not for nothing are they known as "Bodger's Terminals"; ime - from fixing other people's EI at the sides of roads, in campsites, etc. - they don't have any place in an EI, the signals from trigger (plate) to electronics Box are low Volts and Amps, the carriers (wires and connectors) need to be as good as reasonably practicable.

Second alarm bell is the insulating tape. That needs to come off to see what it's hiding ...

Imho, talk to Vehicle Wiring Products:-

. You need two metres each of 32/0.20 wire in Black/White and Black/Yellow and some black PVC sleeving of the right ID to take those two wires - VWP will advise.

. Specifically for the wires between any EI trigger and electronics Box, I use "Japanese bullets" (and sockets) because the bullet and socket insulation also interlock, forming a near-waterproof connection. (y) Bullets, sockets and corresponding insulators all come in packs of 10, you only need four of each to join the new wires to the plate and the Box so there's a few for balls-ups. ;)

. If you don't have one already, this terminal crimping tool is cheaper than this one, your choice, the tool will be useful for many more wiring jobs. :)

Once you have the above, replace the existing wires between the plate and the Box with the correct colours, so you can be sure plate and Box are connected correctly. (y)

Look up manufacturers web site. You should see the control box somewhere. It will show how to set static timing
:confused: Ime, none of the Boxes "show how to set static timing", you need the destructions. Thankfully, they're all online - educated guess says you'll find a Boyer-Bransden Box - Ernie makes all his Fitting Instructions available on his website, post the colour of the Box when you find it, the Box colour denotes the electronics inside; otoh, also post if you find either a Pazon or Wassell Box and I'll post a link to the relevant destructions. :)

Hth.

Regards,
 
#37 ·
The reason the black/yellow and black/white wires can cause issues when swapped, is because the PROPER wiring connection means the ignition senses the rotation of the trigger magnets and actuates the advance curve properly.

Otherwise, the black box thinks it's hooked up to a CCW rotating trigger, and advances accordingly, resulting in NO-GO.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top