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here in NC, once a person is inside the house, it's trespassing... pointing a gun / pulling the trigger are just 2 different charges the police will put on you (can't use deadly force to prevent property theft). Pointing a weapon is assault. Pulling the trigger is the intent to kill / inflict serious injury.
Not for long in NC, December 1 it changes to this:
Gov. Perdue signed into law House Bill 650, which expands the rights of North Carolinians who legally use their weapons.

"The laws are designed for law abiding people; not for felons," Andrews said. "Felons don't follow the law. The only thing the new law does is affect law abiding people."

The new law gives people more legal protection when they fire a weapon at an intruder whether they are at home, in their car or at the work place. North Carolinians will no longer fear prosecution in a situation where they feared for their safety and defended themselves.

"It makes it very clear that somebody that is lawfully acting and lawfully in their home and someone is unlawfully gaining access to that home is not going to be responsible on a criminal or civil basis," New Hanover Co. Assistant District Attorney Charity Wilson said.

Besides legally protecting citizens, the new law also lets concealed carry license holders have their gun in state parks. This worries citizens like Michael Fulp, who often walks in Carolina Beach State Park.
 

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OK, while the thread is still open...Although I don't have charts to back me up, I have over 30 years in healthcare and see results of stupid tragic accidents. The 3 year old whose daddy was "cleaning his gun" and shot her legs off. The young woman whose boyfriend didn't like the way she looked at him and he shot her multiple times. Our next door neighbor, 14 years old, who shot himself accidentally and died. I can tell many other stories but I won't. I'm sure you have your share too.
Just let me say that changing the dressings on that 3 year old girl has forever changed my view of guns. My husband was a paramedic for 8 yrs and had similar experiences. If you open the newspapers they are full of tragedies, but very few, if any, could be avoided by more people having guns.
 

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. . . . . . . Im sick to death of hearing about other peoples children, the elderly, the infirm, cops, teachers, firemen, the sick, the lame and the lazy . . .

. . . . . . my hard earned (actual blood and sweat) money. . . . .


my $0.02

Yes, lazy people are annoying but there are a lot of children, infirm, sick, and lame who are grateful to people who think otherwise.

According to your personal profile you work at a desk with air conditioning.
 

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Agreed. And before anyone says it, I'm sure you're all very responsible and lock your gun away, and carry it responsibly, and blah and blah, but that will do nothing to stop your idiot neighbour from accidentally shooting your kid. Although I'd quite like a gun, I feel much, much safer knowing the chances are the people around me aren't packing heat.
 

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I didn't say anything about being armed with a gun. I said armed. Don't you folks see my pitch fork? :D

Kem
Hey, a pitchfork is a frightening thing. I wouldn't want to get one through the gut!

One day it occurred to me you could probably kill or seriously injure someone with a Gibson Les Paul:D
 

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Well guitar strings would be an interesting weapon for a mafia assassin!
Just to be fair, they use piano strings, too:D

Smokeyrider, I hear what you're saying, but a lot of people who work in ERs say the same about motorcycles. And careless people manage to kill themselves and others in any number of ways. As far as guns go though, I'm sitting somewhere in the middle. On the one hand, I'm not very fond of them, and realize if they were harder to get, crime would likely go down in the US. On the other hand, I have a psycho ex husband who terrorized me for years, and the police can't exactly get here quickly, nor do they seem to care much. They weren't going to care until pieces of me were found scattered in corn fields.
 

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Yes, lazy people are annoying but there are a lot of children, infirm, sick, and lame who are grateful to people who think otherwise.
I give "time and treasure" to these of my own volition till it hurts. Dont need the Gov to tell me to do whats right.

According to your personal profile you work at a desk with air conditioning.
Yep.. sure do.
And before that I dug ditches, roofed houses, tiled floors, mucked out stalls, wrangled livestock, flipped burgers, worked security at punk rock shows, donned a uniform and packed a rifle, moved furniture, humped equipment, worked 5 years (not counting the apprenticeship)as a farrier , pulled thousands of miles of communications cable, worked 63 hour days, traveled 200+ days a year,sent my kids to private school, then spent my own hard earned (real blood and sweat) dollars on my education.

I RATE air conditioning.. lazy people still piss me off, and taking what Ive earned by threat of force is theft. Whether its done by a masked man, or a ballot box.
 

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Many many more people are killed by cars with automatic transmissions than with guns so let's ban automatic trannies or even cars. That will do much more good than banning guns. And that is the convoluted logic you are all using. The statistics are clear. A responsible, trained and legally armed citizenry drastically reduces violent crime. Yes there are tragic accidents, just like with motorcycles, ferris wheels, bath tubs, baseballs, tall buildings, ad infinitum. Where are the hysterical cries about all these death machines? You just can't admit your predjudices and fear due to ignorance, but you have no problem spouting it like you know what you're talking about.

And in answer to one of the above posts, depending on what state you live in, the act of breaking into a home can get you very legally shot, in Florida for instance and, if you live in a state with very restrictive gun laws (New Jersey and New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, California etc.,) isn't it strange that your state's crime rate is among the highest. Of course. The bad guys know they are not likely to face an armed victim. They aren't stupid. Thank your unenlightened politicians.

And about the use of deadly force, be it a gun or a golf club, NATIONWIDE law says that if you are IN FEAR of IMMINENT DEATH or GRIEVOUS BODILY HARM you have a right to use deadly force. A weapon doesn't even have to be involved. Disparity is enough. A 90 pound woman being attacked by a 225 pound assailant would be justified in using deadly force, as would an 80 year old man. I taught this to law enforcement officers for many years. It too isn't opinion.

I'd ask you to look at the facts but I understand. Your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused by facts.
 

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Roxy,
Sorry about the psycho X. I do understand. Big dogs and baseball bats are helpful too!
I did have big dogs, but a baseball bat would not likely have been helpful when he owned several guns. I would call the sheriff when he showed up and they would ask, "Does he have a gun in his car right now?" Oh, gee, let me leave the safety of the house and check:rolleyes:

No, he didn't have any hand guns (I think), but shotguns are just as frightening.
 

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Many many more people are killed by cars with automatic transmissions than with guns so let's ban automatic trannies....
I'd be up for banning automatic transmissions! I rarely saw one in a car in the UK or Europe and never drove one until I came to North America. I find that people who don't learn to drive with manual transmissions miss out on much of the driving experience. And if, as you say, it would save lives then it gets my vote!:cool:

I'd also say that if you can't drive stick, you probably aren't capable of handling a gun either! Cat... pigeons....?
 

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Roxy,
I understand. I would probably do the same thing if I were living in fear. Raising 3 kids, I never felt like it was safe to have guns around. I grew up with guns in my home and used to go duck hunting with my dad. I know how easy it is for kids to get access to guns, even if they're locked up. My experience in nursing has really turned me off to firearms in the home. So many tragic accidents! I'm not telling others what to do...it's just not a risk I want to take.
 

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Roxy,
I understand. I would probably do the same thing if I were living in fear. Raising 3 kids, I never felt like it was safe to have guns around. I grew up with guns in my home and used to go duck hunting with my dad. I know how easy it is for kids to get access to guns, even if they're locked up. My experience in nursing has really turned me off to firearms in the home. So many tragic accidents! I'm not telling others what to do...it's just not a risk I want to take.
A voice of reason in all this claptrap!
 

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Roxy,
I understand. I would probably do the same thing if I were living in fear. Raising 3 kids, I never felt like it was safe to have guns around. I grew up with guns in my home and used to go duck hunting with my dad. I know how easy it is for kids to get access to guns, even if they're locked up. My experience in nursing has really turned me off to firearms in the home. So many tragic accidents! I'm not telling others what to do...it's just not a risk I want to take.
Oh, definitely you need to consider the safety of children. Not having had any, I often have had friends tell me my house is not set up for children (not due to weapons, but rather all my breakable decor). All I can say is, well, no children live here; only adults do.

I would likely be very concerned about having a gun with children in the home. Until they reach a certain age, they do not understand that guns can kill people. I, too, have heard stories about one child pointing the gun at another and pulling the trigger. Hey, on cartoons, the one who is shot miraculously comes back to life, right?

As I said I'm in the middle on the gun thing. If it weren't for the psycho, I highly doubt I'd have ever had one. If I had also had children, I'm not sure what decision I'd have made. You can't have it easily accessible with children in the house, but if you make it difficult you may not be able to defend yourself and them. I very well may have packed us all up and taken off for some remote place where it would be hard to find us.
 

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Depone, I can't be arsed with this argument again. I'm sure we can both produce statistics to prove our point, just as I'm sure neither of us are going to change our mind anytime soon... Your ideology says one thing, mine says the polar opposite. Just please don't accuse me of ignorance or prejudice. You don't know me.
 

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Not for long in NC, December 1 it changes to this:

The new law gives people more legal protection when they fire a weapon at an intruder whether they are at home, in their car or at the work place. North Carolinians will no longer fear prosecution in a situation where they feared for their safety and defended

Besides legally protecting citizens, the new law also lets concealed carry license holders have their gun in state parks. This worries citizens like Michael Fulp, who often walks in Carolina Beach State Park.
I understand what the new law will be - things that won't change: still can't use deadly force to prevent theft, once an intruder is inside your home it's easier to defend yourself in court against some charges, your vehicle is now covered under the castle doctrine - don't have the duty to retreat if being attacked (Which you do currently)

Basically, the new law allows those of us who have a CCW (like me) to carry in a state park (federal lands we already can do so).... once you go to trial and are declared innocent of any wrong doing in a shooting, there can be no civil case (you shoot someone, there is a good chance you'll have to go to a criminal court).... and it extends the castle doctrine to vehicles (your car - you don't have the duty to retreat any more in or near your car). THere is also a provision to reduce the wait time for the background checks (45 days down from 90? I forget the exact numbers)

I need to read up on the extent of how it extends the castle doctrine - can't remember how far it extends to a person. Today (since this isn't in place quite yet), the law reads a bit weird - if someone is breaking into your home, you get them as they are coming in it's easier to defend yourself in a court of law than if they were already inside the home (trespass). (that's the part you quoted about "gives more legal protection"). Legal protection means there are criminal charges.

I don't argue the "is it right or wrong" aspects of it.... if you own a firearm, and think you ever will use it to inflict deadly force - read and know the laws, the consequences of those laws.

There is a good article on wikipedia about it (as for most topics)

Side note: there were some mad people in the CCW class when I took it.... amazing - there were several who thought the permit gave them an open season pass on bad guys and they could go around pulling a gun on anyone and everyone they thought was bad. Like in a movie or something. "What, I can't just pull out my gun whenever I want and tell people to back off?" It was entertaining. :)
 

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Cantilever, I can only respond to the Florida law but, if an unwanted intruder enters your home here you have a perfect right to use deadly force. No further factor is needed. Guess what? Home invsions are WAY down since the law was passed.
 

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Depone, I can't be arsed with this argument again. I'm sure we can both produce statistics to prove our point, just as I'm sure neither of us are going to change our mind anytime soon... Your ideology says one thing, mine says the polar opposite. Just please don't accuse me of ignorance or prejudice. You don't know me.
Nothing personal at all but I would like to see your statistics. I know what the record has been in states that have liberalized the laws and you would have a very difficult time disproving them. In fact many people who fought the changes have seen what happened and publically changed their opinions after seeing there has been no bloodbaths in the streets and the crime rates have diminished.

You have a perfect right to your ideology as I do mine. I would not attempt to force you to have, carry or use a gun, but I don't want your ideology forced on me either. Historically the "anti" people are far less tolerant of others and will try to some way force their ways on the general populace. That makes it necessary for us to become aggressive and persistent in order to preserve the rights given us in our constitution.

I just call it the way I see it, and know it to be. Again, not my opinion but facts that can be backed up. With that said, if you ever get to Daytona, I'll buy the drinks and we can discuss it civilly. I mean that. :beerchug
 
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