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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just bought a 78 T140E with overhauled engine. I only have a few hours running time on it. When I started it this evening I could here a snapping sound, I discovered the outer head bolts on the right side were loose. I was getting compression leak at the head gasket. Looking through the manual I got in the mail just this afternoon I see I was to have re-torqued the head. Do I need to remove the rocker boxes to get to the four inner bolts, or can I just remove the rocker box bolts to gain access. I do not have the special tool listed 61-7010 to tighten those bolts, is there something I can substitute. Which of the bolts are 3/8 which are 5/16 so I get the torque specs right. I can tell right now that I have a lot to learn about these bikes. I have kept a 63 TR4 sports car on the road for 40 years. I have an early 50's Alfa powered one off sports/racer and a Lancia Beta. I should be able to figure this thing out, eventually.
 

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For your cylinder head there are two 3/8" bolts in the centre, which need torquing to 15 lb ft.
All the others are 5/16" and are to be torqued to 18 lb ft.
The rocker boxes will have to come off, re-torqued to 5 lb ft, and the tappets gapped.
The special tool is to tighten the `allen` socket bolts.
I used a cut-off allen key with a socket...3/8 I think.
 

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on my t140e i have had head off twice recently. to retorque i only have to remove headsteady to gain access to 2 centre bolts ( 1 & 2 in tightening seqence ) and remove 2 large bolts from top of each rocker box to get at bolts ( 3 4 5 6 )i use 3/8 drive torque wrench with 3/8 hex socket. for bolts inside rocker boxes you have to insert socket thru rocker box then fit wrench to it. find it takes at least 3 retorques to get it down tight. need to adjust tappets after each retorque.
 

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Head torquing

Sorry Caulky, but the some of the info you provided needs correcting.
The 2 inner studs are 5/16 diam and sleeve nuts with 3/8 a/f hex drive.
These need a dry torque setting of 16 ft lbf.
The inner rocker studs are 3/8 diam and sleeve nuts with 3/8 a/f drive and need a torque setting of 18 ft lbf.
They need the hex driver tool, or a hex key, 3/8 ring spanner in a torque multiplier mode. I made a hex key and 1/2 sq drive to go straight into the torque wrench as the head room between rocker box and frame is not enough. Removal of the rocker boxes is a least favoured option as all gaskets will need to be disturbed and renewed.
The outer hex head bolts are 9/16 a/f and are torqued to 18 ft lbf.
The service info for torquing a new composite gasket is tighten all 3/8 to 22 ft lbf and 5/16 studs to 18 ft lbf, fire her up to full temp. When cold they should be retorqued to the 18 for 3/8 and 16 for 5/16.
Reset the tappets and after 500 miles, retorque the head again to the same values.
It also begs the question whether the cylinder head gasket, having leaked, can be trusted to seal at all after all this work has been done. If the original overhauling was incorrectly carried out the head may be warped or studs stretched?
If you were to look at the sealing area between the 5/16 studs and the bores, you'd appreciate that little needs to go wrong and it all goes wrong.
i don't want to sound unduly negative here, but this is why we have forums to share opinions.
All the best with whatever you choose to do.
 

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nice 1 ROCHDALE COWBOY
25 yrs ago i had a mate that had emigrated with his parents from Ackrington?? his father had a cassette recording that had been made at the pub of a comedian calling himself the rochdale cowboy. full of great humour - nuns on pogo sticks on the M1 - it hard to be a cowboy in rochdale cos the spurs dont fit right on yr clogs -etc. the copy must have been made in the late 60s?

have you heard of this guy?
that old copy be long gone now as we thrashed it. b great to hear once more thou

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you very much for your help. I removed the tank and the torque stay, torqued the bolts and adjusted the clearances on the tappets. I took it for a short ride, will put some more time on it tomorrow.

I am over 60 and have not ridden a bike in almost 40 years. I'll get this all figured out eventually. The good think is, I guess anyway, is I don't have a job so I can devote some time to it.

Again, thank you very much.
 

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Mike Harding was the culprit:
He followed Rochdale Cowboy with the less successful BlackPuddin' Bertha
He was a mega Comedian on the Theatre circuit rivalling Billy Connolly in the day.
But like Billy originally a Folk Singer, who told joke in between songs.
He has a popular Folk show on the BBC now.
Cheers
BonnieT
 

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Sorry, this is an old link but to avoid repetition, I searched and it asked the question I wanted to know - Seems like a right pain if you do it properly (ie retorque the inner bolts under the rocker box) When I bought my bike these four bolts were loose, so I guess somebody left these out.

Is is okay to leave the head steady off for that 5 mile run, otherwise I think the bike would have cooled down by the time I retorque the bolts and nuts!
 

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Sorry, this is an old link but to avoid repetition, I searched and it asked the question I wanted to know - Seems like a right pain if you do it properly (ie retorque the inner bolts under the rocker box) When I bought my bike these four bolts were loose, so I guess somebody left these out.

Is is okay to leave the head steady off for that 5 mile run, otherwise I think the bike would have cooled down by the time I retorque the bolts and nuts!
Hi Dave,
As far as leaving out the head steady, don't!
You'll need to let her cool down cold before retorquing them anyway.
good luck
RC
 

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head steady

I use a craftsman 3/8" allen socket on my 1/2" torque wrench for the 4 bolts through the rocker box. I have an old style torque wrench and do not have to remove the head stay for the 2 middle head bolts. I insert the socket through the rocker box with enough reach but can get the socket in the middle 2 without interfering. It takes 5 minutes. The head bolts loosened twice after the rebuild. I'm with REG to tighten 3 times. Bob
 

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I use a 1/4" drive head on my torque wrench fitted with a 1/4" drive 7/32" deep socket and a cut down 7/32" hex (allen) key held in the socket with a bit of tape to do mine. I have a T120, but I assume that the T140 is the same. I do not remove the head steady or the rocker boxes, I just remove one bolt at a time.



I hope this helps

Webby
 

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I made a tool by welding a load of arc welding sticks to the end of a piece of a 3/8 hex key, then grinding / filing the resulting mess until it was 1/2" (ish) square, and fitted in the end of my torque wrench. Its not pretty, but its worked a treat for many years.
 

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I use a 1/4" drive head on my torque wrench fitted with a 1/4" drive 7/32" deep socket and a cut down 7/32" hex (allen) key held in the socket with a bit of tape to do mine. I have a T120, but I assume that the T140 is the same. I do not remove the head steady or the rocker boxes, I just remove one bolt at a time.



I hope this helps

Webby
If I see that filthy rotten, beautifully convenient torque wrench again, I'm going to come to France and steal it.

You know I only have the bulky 1/2" drive Warren and Brown Webby, and you only show this photo just to upset me.

Now for those of you retorquing the cylinder heads, you'll all know no doubt, that it is good practice to release the old tension first, and not just continue to tighten it up!!

I think that is why its called REtorquing. (Now where was my flame suit?) RR
 

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If I see that filthy rotten, beautifully convenient torque wrench again, I'm going to come to France and steal it.

You know I only have the bulky 1/2" drive Warren and Brown Webby, and you only show this photo just to upset me.

Now for those of you retorquing the cylinder heads, you'll all know no doubt, that it is good practice to release the old tension first, and not just continue to tighten it up!!

I think that is why its called REtorquing. (Now where was my flame suit?) RR
No worries RR, you're welcome in France any time you want :D

I have seen a special tool for sale which looks like a 7/32" allen key bit with a 1/2" bolt welded to it, it was cheap too!
Here it is http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-TR7-T...ps=63&clkid=4862938319470605987#ht_667wt_1141

And yes RR, you are correct about the retorquing :)

Webby
 

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I've not long bought a set of 1/2" allen socket bits that are very handy but the last time that I did the head I used a cut down allen key and socket
 

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Hey guys I know this may sound like a silly question and I know guys have said it before to loosen the bolt before you torque it down. The question is do you loosen all the bolts at once or loosen just the one bolt that your working on in the sequence.
 

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I asked this question as recently while changing a leaky exhaust rocker box gasket the #5 and #6 bolt under the rocker box was finger loose. Should i just tighten all in sequence or are there other issues i should worry about.
 

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Overuse of the J word if I may be so bold!
If the 2 long nuts were loose in the rocker box which are 3/8", then the 5/16" centre nuts have been handed a bigger job of containing the hot side of the combustion pressures. This area of the copper head gasket tends to fail across the front stud between the cylinders. It is a possibility that the head is warped and the gasket seal compromised. If you "just" tighten the stud set down in sequence you may get away with it, but for how long?
After a few attempts myself, I wised up and lapped the head and barrel mating faces, new gasket, torqued in sequence, retorqued a further twice after running and all is well.
The nuts may be loose because they may have been overtightened and stretched the studs.
A load of drama may await you, or you may be OK, how lucky do you feel?

Good luck
RC
 

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Well I guess thats the question how lucky do I feel I would love to get lucky enough to get thru this season and tackle it in the off season otherwise I'm stranded. My luck may not last that long either being that the top end as never been done and it's all original but she only has 7000 miles. I think I'm gonna try tightening everything down and hope for the best she was running great before I shut her down this winter. maybe I should have lived with the oil leak instead of opening up a can of worms. Damn it!!! I'm glad that I have all the help from the forum it really makes the experience and work more pleasurable. thanks guys. What should I look for if I'm unlucky???
 
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