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Discussion Starter #1
Hello triumph owners,

I have an Sprint ST 1050 abs from 2005.
I love the looks and the engine of the motorcycle.:)
Except i have one problem from the beginning that i (and the dealer) can't get solved.
When i ride the bike on high altitude (above 1000m) then it won't run idle (stationer) any more. I have tried running with higher octane gasoline but i hasn't helped.
The dealer adviced an new motor mapping but also that hasn't helped.
It only occurs on high altitude so when i return to my dealer (holland) the problem isn't there anymore.

I hope that someone else has had the problem and has it solved because the fun is ryding in the mountens and when the enigine does not run there is no fun at all.:mad:

(sorry for my englisch but i am dutch and doing my best).

tia
Leon Urbanus
 

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Leon,

I live at 2,000 meters and ride regularly as high as 3,000 + meters. No problems at all with the bike. Sorry I cannot give any help on the matter, but your bike should be able to adjust to altitude changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks for the reply's zo far.

Question (caddydaddy) : could it be that the map sensor only gives a problem on high altitudes ?
 

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Yes it could only give problems at higher altitudes but understand that 1000m (3280ft) above sea level is not real high altitude. I rode my Sprint (05) regularily over mtn passes that are 1500+ meters

I would look and see if your throttle bodies are balanced as well.

You see the problem is you should have a code popping up when the bike starts to fail if your map sensor is out of sorts. Wat the dealer should do is take the bike for a ride with the Triumph Gameboy hooked up and look at the data stream from the bike when it starts to fail. Then they can see what everything is doing on the bike at the time of the issue. Pretty hard to diagnose a perfectly good running bike on the shop floor.

Keep us posted.
 

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My guess would be a faulty MAP sensor, not measuring air pressure correctly enough to idle.
Actually would not the MAP sensor itself but the barometric pressure sensor (also called Ambient Pressure Sensor) would be the guilty party.

On the Sagem systems (earlier bikes) this is actually physically incorporated as part of the ECM, but on the Keihin it is a separate device.

Is the FI light on??? If it is, sensor may simply be unplugged or a short in the wiring but it should report a fault code P1107 or P1108 if that is the case
- certainly doesn't seem to respond to altitude change.

Make sure the air pressure sampling intake of the device is unobstructed.

Have them replace it if all 'looks' normal with the connector & the sampling port.

 

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Ken you never cease to amaze me:rolleyes:

Welcome to the forum Leon.:)

You are doing fine with your English, I do not know one word of Dutch. The first house I ever built on my own account was for a Dutchman from Amsterdam but that was a very very long time ago.

Don (dolson) and I ask all new members to please take time to read our forum stickies, just to get a better idea of our rules and how we do things here:)

No you have not done anything wrong we ask all new members to do this ok?:)

cheers and welcome,
DaveM
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes it could only give problems at higher altitudes but understand that 1000m (3280ft) above sea level is not real high altitude. I rode my Sprint (05) regularily over mtn passes that are 1500+ meters

I would look and see if your throttle bodies are balanced as well.

You see the problem is you should have a code popping up when the bike starts to fail if your map sensor is out of sorts. Wat the dealer should do is take the bike for a ride with the Triumph Gameboy hooked up and look at the data stream from the bike when it starts to fail. Then they can see what everything is doing on the bike at the time of the issue. Pretty hard to diagnose a perfectly good running bike on the shop floor.

Keep us posted.

Caliway :
I agree that the dealer should take it out for a ride but that is not so easy. The nearest high altitude road is about 300 miles away so there is no other way then reproducing the problem on the shop floor (i think).

What do you mean with "throttle bodies are balanced ".

p.s. there never goes an control light on so i only experience the direct idle running problem.

tia
Leon Urbanus
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Decosse thanks for your analisys.
There is no F1 loght on (never , only before starting but that is normal).
When the bike is in the shop there is no faultcode.:(

"Make sure the air pressure sampling intake of the device is unobstructed." That i will certainly take a loke at because i have had my bike retuerned from the dealer with connectors that weren't connected and bodywork that wasn't fully right put back.

"Have them replace it if all 'looks' normal with the connector & the sampling port. "
Can you explain what you exactly mean by that (with connector and sampling port)

p.s. DaveM: i have read most of the forum stickies (thanks for your response):)
 

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.....
"Have them replace it if all 'looks' normal with the connector & the sampling port. "
Can you explain what you exactly mean by that (with connector and sampling port)...
The APS is a transducer device that measure the atmospheric pressure - it will have an electrical connector and also an orifice ('hole') through which the air enters the device, so the pressure can be imparted on the transducer membrane.

I will now discount the electrical connection - as you can see from table above, it would have to give an error if it was disconnected (open circuit); so either the air path into the transducer is blocked, or it is may just be faulty.
It should not be ridiculously expensive and the diagnosis is appropriate, so they should probably just replace it.

As you say, the issue is to know whether the problem has been resolved since it is so flat in Holland!
 

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How does the bike start and run at normal altitude:
What is the initial RPM after cold start?
What RPM does the idle settle to once warm?

Does the bike idle ok at altitude if you hold the throttle a little open?

Calliway mentioned throttle body balance. I would have the dealer check:
1)Throttle body balance.
2)TPS.
3)Idle stepper adjustment.
In that order.

I suspect that the idle stepper lift is adjusted on the low side of the range.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How does the bike start and run at normal altitude:
What is the initial RPM after cold start?
What RPM does the idle settle to once warm?

Does the bike idle ok at altitude if you hold the throttle a little open?

Calliway mentioned throttle body balance. I would have the dealer check:
1)Throttle body balance.
2)TPS.
3)Idle stepper adjustment.
In that order.

I suspect that the idle stepper lift is adjusted on the low side of the range.
- the bike starts cold slow (as i been informed normal on a Triumph) and warm direct.
- when it's cold it is some higher , between 1500-1750 rpm (i am saying this out of my head because the is already 4 weeks standing still because of the weather here)
- when it's warm i think about 1250 rpm.

I think i take a look with the manuals if something is blokking the aps (my first run in 2005 to the schwalz wald in germany, there was no problem).
The other advices end diagniostics i will give to my dealer and hope he will do something with it.

Very much thanks
Leon Urbanus
 

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Discussion Starter #14
solution?

Hey Everyone,

The Sprint has been to the dealer so i would let you all know wat has happend so far.
The dealer has checkt for the APS and sayed that everthing was normal.
The did found that the stepping motor was wrong adjusted.
The corrected it and say that the have fixed the problem.

I can't check it out right now but in somer i will be going to high altitude (Italien Dolomieten) so we will see.

Can any one confirm that a wrongly adjusted stepping motor could be the problem ?:confused:

tia
Leon Urbanus
 

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Leon,

I have limited technical knowledge but I believe it could cause that problem, sometimes the stepper motor needs lubing too as I understand it can also stick.

And thank you for reading the stickies and acknowledging my post and also for getting back to us with your results.:)

cheers,
DaveM:cool:
 

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There isn't a ton of adjustment BUT they can stick when they get dirty and make havok on the motor. Its just a little plunger on a steel shaft and if anything gets on that shaft then it can retract or expand properly creating problems. I believe there is some adjustment where the motor actually mounts.
 

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Laz, lots of info on rim stripes, but not much re stepper motors. ;)

For a pic, look at the bikebandit fische.

Generically, stepper motors are capable of being stopped at precise positions vs free wheeling before coming to a halt. The positions are defined as "steps", thus the name.

In the +05 ST, the stepper motor is controlled by the ECM to actuate a cam which determines the closed throttle position. It controls your idle speed and is what cracks the throttle for cold starts.

It is located at the right end of the throttle body shaft.
 

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It looks a lot like this:


And it's located here:


A stepper motor rotates it's armature a fixed angle per "step" or drive pulse (over simplified but...)
In this case the stepper motor shaft operates a drive screw. The result is a variable length shaft exiting the stepper that sets the idle stop. There is an adjustment on the end of the shaft that sets the control authority that the stepper has over idle speed.

As OnD stated, the stepper regulates idle speed as well as start throttle.

Too much control authority and the engine will race when started and the idle may float high when warm.
Too little and the bike may be hard to start or idle slow at altitude, when cold etc.

What am I doing typing gibberish about steppers on Valentines eve?

Bye now...


Ahem...what is a stepper motor? Anyone got a picture of it and where it's located?
 

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Big thanks for the help OnD and CLB :thumbsup:

So in this pic it would be number 5 right? BikeBandit calls it ACTUATOR, ISC though.
(sorry about the big picture)

 
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