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Discussion Starter #21
hi, engage et al
ok, just spoke with Mickey Cohen (daz's guy and the Triumph Press team guy)...he says (as engage surmised) that any HOAT is just fine...that they haven't seen the issues with cavitation and erosion in motorcycle engines that have occurred in automobile engines. so that's all there is to it...sheesh! What is this world coming to when the mechanic is personable and responsive, and the National Customer Relations guy is prickly (although technically correct)(!)
peace,
John
 

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Good to know. I will stick with the triumph stuff but if i find it insanely expensive compared to any other hoat i'll probably take the cheaper route. Glad to hear mickey could help. He may at times be less than helpfull due to mood, but at least he usually knows a lot of inside info no one else will because he no doubt has a direct line to the UK factory techs. And in many cases they are the only ones who will truly have the correct answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
re: "the UK factory techs. And in many cases they are the only ones who will truly have the correct answer. "

hi, daz
no doubt...and thanks again for connecting me with Mickey. The funny thing about this in retrospect is that I started out trying to get Triumph to connect me with Tech support. I always start with the techies, never with customer service. This is the single time in my entire life that a company refused to let me talk to their national service people. I don't know what their deal is...and I don't like it. I'm actually rethinking my "relationship" with Triumph after this (after 35 years no less). Among other things, to write the home factory with a complaint and simply be shunted back to the guy you are complaining about is a little outrageous. There's half a chance I'll sell the Tbird and move back to the Japanese or Italians because of this. I hate to say it...but I already find myself "shopping".
John

PS just to be clear, Carleo may have been technically correct that any aluminum-rated HOAT was acceptable, but he never addressed the key question of warrantee should anything go wrong. And he was rude.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
hi, guys
I hate to bring this up again, but thought I'd update you since more is happening. Long story short, Triumph is now saying that HD4X is the correct coolant for the Tbird and offering me a free flush of the BMW stuff.
I have to tell you, Carleo continues to play bureaucratic word games and has never addressed the question asked. I get the feeling UK is putting pressure on him to recommend HD4X, but noone has ever answered whether it's required for the warrantee...and noone has ever addressed the fact that HD4X is scarce, and not used by most dealerships in this country (as far as I can tell).
I'd have been happy to stick with Mickey Cohen's answer, would have been happy if Triumph just said, sure...any "aluminum-rated" HOAT etc. It's not like I want to make the 5 hour round trip to the dealer again.
Anyway, for what it's worth...the letter from Triumph UK follows below (and to be fair, they are being nicer than Carleo has been, if equally vague). I don't know why they can't just be consistent, say X is the correct coolant, and actually use that in their dealerships. My only guess is that HD4X is NOT anything special and they want to sell some...yet, they don't require the dealerships to use it. I'm confused...maybe the wiser souls here have a thought. Engage? *grin*

 

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Having been a manager, CSR, and technician, I can tell you we all have our good days and bad. And, once in a while someone is asking us a question we simply don't have an absolute answer for because one doesn't exist. Get several experts together and often you'll get different answers because a personal preference dicates their answer. If it were my issue, I'd document the situation, get on with my life and if a problem did occcur becuase of the "wrong" info from an authoritative source (Triumph), I'd be covered anyway. If I didn't trust Triumph, I'd be getting a Honda, Yamaha, etc.
 

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Guys....you can buy a different bike but you aren't going to get better CS anywhere. Yeah, you may randomly have some good experiences here and there the same as with triumph. But all big companies today are hit and miss when you have to deal with them and they all pull thier employees for the same human race as triumph, so they're all going to be comprised of the same percentage of aholes. Don't dump such a great machine for another only to find that you will probably on average get the same treatment elsewhere. I've dealt with other brand dealers on non triumph related bike parts and service like tire mounting, buying oils and such, and i've already had to deal with my share of idiots. No doubt if you deal with the company itself it will be a [email protected] shoot as to whether or not you run into another peter carlio.
 

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hi, guys
...
Anyway, for what it's worth...the letter from Triumph UK follows below (and to be fair, they are being nicer than Carleo has been, if equally vague). I don't know why they can't just be consistent, say X is the correct coolant, and actually use that in their dealerships. My only guess is that HD4X is NOT anything special and they want to sell some...yet, they don't require the dealerships to use it. I'm confused...maybe the wiser souls here have a thought. Engage? *grin*
well, I not sure I'm a wise soul, but Triumph gave you a bunch of BS - second paragraph about testing lots of coolants, etc - they are going to test coolants (I hope), but will always private label one that they sell, but also acknowledged that no one really answered your question by offering you a free flush.

I concur with lonerider and daz, but also believe you are safe with the BMW coolant.

I would take Triumph up on the flush when it is convenient just for complete piece of mind and because they are willing to do it :D

Edit: just noticed the 5 hour round trip. Can you ask your dealer to send you the coolant? Then you can either do the flush, or have coolant on hand for future use.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
hi, guys
Thanks for the comments. The whole thing is pretty sad IMO. Kind of out of patience with them at this point. I can see Loneriders point about "sometimes there is no answer", but of course there are certain things you are expected to know. If they couldn't tell me what kind of oil to use, or (as in this case) what kind of coolant to use, something is very wrong. This isn't a high-tech question, it's a simple question of warrantee. What will fulfill the warantee...period. And IMO there is simply no excuse whatsoever for not being forthcoming about that.

This is only the second time in my life I bought a new vehicle... always restored old bikes and cars. So I'm not really concerned about their opinion, or even expertise. I just wanted to keep the warrantee valid. I feel I've wasted enough time "suffering fools."

I do appreciate all the support here. Engage and dazco in particular have offered solid help...and daz, your guy Cohen said it all. I see no reason to doubt his experience. And engage, yup, I think I'll just ask them to send me the coolant. It'd be 8 hours overall including the time the dealership kills screwing around...for a coolant change I am quite sure I don't need.

so, this time for sure....I'm done *grin*

John
 

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so, this time for sure....I'm done *grin*
Traveler - since you said you are done, I'm sorry for keeping this going :eek:, but it dawned on me that maybe Triumph really doesn't know the answer.

They may not have tested various anti-freezes (they are a smallish motorcycle company) - they may have simply designed the bike to, and done all the testing with, their private-labeled anti-freeze. They may have a belief that any motorcycle anti-freeze will work, but took the safe road and told you to stick with theirs simply because they haven't tried the others.

I will tell you this; my shop uses the Triumph stuff (when they have it), but believes any motorcycle anti-freeze will work. Their comment to me was the same as what I read on-line: if you switch or mix coolants, don't go with an extended drain. My shop flushes every 12,000 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
hi, engage
I don't mind discussing this with the forum, I just meant I'm done fiddling around with Triumph. I agree with you that Triumph undoubtedly doesn't know the answer. I know you're a techie, I'm a techie. I did lots of jobs just like this for Dupont...among other things lead design on the Quad4 plastic intake manifold. I know what they should have done, and what they more likely actually did. And we could talk about that in much more detail. My point of contention is not with their analysis and/or testing (and lack thereof)...my point is that if they are going to sell a machine and a warrantee, then they have a moral if not legal responsibility to describe explicitly what the buyer's obligations are to maintain that warrantee. That's it as far as I'm concerned. You can't "suggest" one coolant and then have all your dealerships actually filling up someone's bike with a different coolant without clarifying what the heck is going on. I don't even care which way they go with it, just a little consistency and integrity would be nice.
regards,
John
 

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Reviving an old thread.

From what I can tell through research, a suitable substitute for Triumph HD4X is a G-05 coolant.

Most important characteristics of HD4X:

  • HOAT
  • Low Silicate
  • High Nitrite
Description of Zerex G05 on Valvoline/Zerex website:

ZEREX™ G-05™ is the automaker approved original chemistry used in newer Ford, Chrysler and Mercedes-Benz automotive and diesel engines. Its Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) chemistry combines the best of conventional and organic acid-based chemistry to provide the ultimate protection against rust and corrosion. ZEREX G-05 antifreeze/coolant uses the highest quality virgin ethylene glycol for freeze and boilover protection and a hybrid organic acid corrosion inhibitor package to protect your engines from liner pitting and corrosion.

Description from the Amazon website:

  • The formulation is designed for both gasoline and diesel engines
  • Its lower-silicate, reduced pH, phosphate free European technology protects all cooling system metals, including aluminum, from corrosion
  • ZEREX G-05 is a nitrite containing coolant designed to protect diesel engine cylinder liners from cavitation. It contains deposit control additives for protection from hard water deposits and scale
  • ZEREX G-05 contains a high quality defoamer system and will not harm hoses, plastics or original vehicle finishes
Is there a forum consensus on this subject and am I going in the right direction with G-05?

My bike is 5 years old and I'm its new owner. I have no idea when the cooling system was last serviced, if ever. So I need to get it drained and flushed in this riding season.
 

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I puzzled over the same issue when I went to replace the coolant in my (new to me) 2010 TB. I also suspect it had not been changed in several years. A few thoughts: (1) the old coolant looked fine - no crud; (2) the consensus seemed to be to use Zerex G-05 - I bought concentrate and diluted 50% with Walmart distilled water - less costly than pre-diluted and leaves enough for future top-offs; (3) I found it easiest to simply loosen the lower hose connector, open the radiator pressure cap, and squeeze a thin screw driver between the hose and the radiator outlet to let coolant drain out - drains more slowly but much easier than trying to actually remove the lower hose; (4) do not forget to empty the radiator overflow reservoir - easiest to do using a small hand pump; (5) rinse the system using distilled water and drain till no color shows; (6) when refilling with fresh coolant I found it best to fill from the "air bleed vent - remove bolt and connect funnel with hose over the nipple - this way the air vents out of the radiator fill cap which is the highest point; (7) close up and run engine for a few minutes before trying to add more fluid via the bleed nipple as previous to ensure all air expelled; (8) top off the expansion tank to full mark using a the hand pump again; (9) fit a new sealing washer on the air bleed bolt before final tightening.. Hope this helps!!
 

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Great tips, ChrisonTop! I've saved and printed your post for garage reference!
 
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