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Discussion Starter #1
Just Reading Dave's(Chalky's) restore of a 1974 120V. Exactly what I am doing. He showed a picture of the frame painted with Hammerite Smooth Black. It seemed to make so much sense to me that I just spent a whole day looking for the Paint. Unforuately, I live in Toronto Canada, and none of my favorite places carry it. So, 4 hours on the Internet, I find that it's called Masterchem, distributed by JAMESTOWN DISTRIBUTORS, 17 PECKHAM DRIVE,BRISTOL, RI.
Bruce Houghton, having a really good time Restoring a 1974 120 Bonneville in Toronto Canada.
 

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Listen Bruce , I`ve been doing a lot of brush painting with Home Hardware "Rust Coat" and I can tell you this stuff is good!!!

For more info feel free to PM me.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for that. Another question. A Parts degreaser, soaker. I get answers like Kerosene, Varsol, and Carb Cleaner. I’m leaning toward Carb Cleaner…Comments!
Bruce Houghton
 

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Thanks for that. Another question. A Parts degreaser, soaker. I get answers like Kerosene, Varsol, and Carb Cleaner. I’m leaning toward Carb Cleaner…Comments!
Bruce Houghton
For overall effectiveness,price and availability I choose Varsol everytime.I find carb cleaner to be too toxic and expensive for general use and really only suitable for,well,carbs.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am progress slowly with my restoration. I tried the Caswell Copy Chrome system with some success for small parts. Now I am at the painting phase and I started with Hammerite on the chain guard. I am less than impressed. First of all the stuff is a very thick gooey substance that is next to impossible to spread on with an even smooth coat. Cleaning the brush afterwards was impossible. Next day when I tried to sand it smooth, it balled up. I don’t think the stuff I got in the can was designed to be used for what I am doing. Any thoughts?
 

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Dunno about Hammerite, but I wait several days before sanding paint. Let it get really hard, or there's just a skin and goo under it
 

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I`d be very reluctant to do any paintwork this time of the year in my workshop,
Too cold and damp. (I did once but it never really dried).
If yer using Hammerite its a good idea to get hold of their thinners...no idea what it is, but white spirit is no good.
Could be cellulose thinners.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you Chalky, you’re the one that inspired me to do this project. I just wished that you had of said “Every piece you take off, there s always another piece under it”. I started with what I thought was going to be a simple project. I didn’t finish taking it apart until the whole dam thing was in a box. Anyway, I am glad did. Oh, by the way, the bike is my winter project in the basement where it’s warm year round. I have a summer project in the garage. A 1932 Ford 3 Window coup. I love it, it keeps me real busy.
Hammerite? I switch to a product that we get here in Canada called “Rust Coat”. Seems to have the same characteristics as Hammerite but can be brushed on with a smooth finish.
PS. Is there a bigger picture of the finished 74?
 

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Recently I started using VHT epoxy. It comes in a gloss and satin black. You can use the two together to get the gloss you want.
They seem to have a good spray nozzle, finer then other products.
 

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For degreasing, I use a cheapo solvent tank and fill it with diesel fuel. I don't know how safe it is regarding fire, so be careful.
 

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Interesting thread. I am presently engaged on a restoration of a Yamaha 750 Special. After completing restoration of a T140D Special, I am determined to do it on an absolute minimum budget. I'm not concerned with correctness, but whatever works. Last week I painted the tank in green Hammertone (I guess a similar product to Hammertite) and needed to sand back a couple of paint runs. It is bloody tough paint! Also I really like the egg shell appearance, it hides little defects. I have just sprayed it with a VHT clear gloss which is purportedly chemical resistant, so if it works, I have restored the tank to a very good apperance for bugger all!

Steve
 

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Thank you Chalky, you’re the one that inspired me to do this project. I just wished that you had of said “Every piece you take off, there s always another piece under it”. I started with what I thought was going to be a simple project. I didn’t finish taking it apart until the whole dam thing was in a box. Anyway, I am glad did. Oh, by the way, the bike is my winter project in the basement where it’s warm year round. I have a summer project in the garage. A 1932 Ford 3 Window coup. I love it, it keeps me real busy.
Hammerite? I switch to a product that we get here in Canada called “Rust Coat”. Seems to have the same characteristics as Hammerite but can be brushed on with a smooth finish.
PS. Is there a bigger picture of the finished 74?
Lets get this right.
I only used Hammerite on the actual frame/stands.
The frame was rubbed down to bare metal using emery paper/cloth and a wire wheel in an electric drill.
I used a cloth soaked in various liquids, paraffin (kerosene), meths, and white spirit to degrease.
When it dried, the frame was painted in red-oxide as a rust-proof base.
I was pretty green when I began.
It was then painted by brush with black Hammerite smooth, gloss.
Given the amount of paint dings now, after working on the assembly, engine, etc, I`m glad I didn`t send the frame away for a professional job.
All the tinware was rubbed-down and sprayed with primer, then a couple of coats of top-coat, using rattle cans.
I`m not saying this is the best method or this is the way to go.
Some pics:
Beginnings


Frame done, new rear mudguard


Finished-ish, not concours by any means, but a great improvement.
 

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For overall effectiveness,price and availability I choose Varsol everytime.I find carb cleaner to be too toxic and expensive for general use and really only suitable for,well,carbs.
Ditto here.......
 

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I use mineral spirits for all general degreasing. No harmful vapors, available anywhere that sells paint and does a great job. When you are done pour it in a container with a lid and all the grit and grime will settle to the bottom. If you pour carefully, you will have a clear brown tinted batch that works as well as the new clear stuff. Mine has to get really grungy before I toss it. And I have two containers of used spirits. One dirty and one filthy. Filty batch is used for really grungy parts like encrusted with old oil, grease and road grime.

Carb cleaner is good as is Brake Kleen for special stuff like carbs or small parts you need to flush out. But it evaporates very quickly, is not good for you and costs too much, as others have mentioned. The bucket type carb dipping cleaners will eat paint and pretty much anything non-metal, including skin. I don't use those any longer.

Regarding paint, not sure about your year, but earlier Triumph frames were dip painted. So you can't do much worse with a brush. They make paints that are self-leveling. They look like powdercoat when they dry. I know that POR-15 is self-leveling.

Spray painting in the basement is tough. Fumes are nasty. But winter sometimes prevents us from painting outside. But I've found there is a compromise. I'm talking rattle cans here. Get you can all shook up and you part(s) ready to paint. Put them on hangers. Now, take them outside and hang from tree or in your cold garage and spray them. Let them sit for just a bit, and then, holding by the hanger, bring them back into the basement and hang them up to dry. I've never had a problem doing this.

I've mentioned this here before, but will again since a lot of what is said in other threads gets lost or forgotten. I touched up the frame on my '76 T140 with Dulicolor Black Spray Enamel. Stuff is tough to make run and blends perfectly with the OEM paint. I touched up my frame with the bike fully assembled for the most part. Removed the rear wheel to fix some acid damage and things like the center and side stands were removed for painting. I would challenge anyone to be able to determine that my frame is not original paint. Takes lots of masking with tape and newspaper. But once you get into it, the end result is very rewarding. Sure beats a full disassembly on an otherwise well running and functioning bike.

regards,
Rob
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Since my project was inspired by Chalk’s, I will follow his lead and show some pictures. This is what it looked like when I got it. 13,000 original miles, and as you can see, not to shabby.

I wanted it to look like the bike I drove to high school back in the late 50’s, so off came that dirty old air box, on went the side covers that gave it a more vintage look, and the chrome air cleaners. That’s more like it.

I continued driving it until one day I opened it up and thud, it stopped. I could smell burning wire. I put my hand under the ignition switch and immediately burn my fingers. Wait a few minutes, pulled off the wire, started it up and drove it home. Here we go, oh boy oh boy, lets freshen it up a little.

Off came the front end. When I realized the number of wires in there, dam, I don’t have a wiring diagram. The Haynes manual has one that is reasonably close so I started tracing the loom and kept running up against the Zener Diode. Can’t find it. Aw darn, the dirty air box. Bought a new loom. Filled two boxes of parts until I finally had it striped down to where I could install the new loom.

In the mean time, I had got this Copy Chrome kit from Caswell plating. Worked great for small flat parts, but when I tried it with more complex angle parts like the head light enclosure, NO. After many attempts with stripping down, re-plating, I finally look in a catalog and found a nice new one for $56.00. I swear I threw that think across the soccer field behind my back yard. That brings me to where I am now. Paint.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
On a different post, I was asked what that K&N filter was attached to the Crankcase breather in picture # 2. Well, I didn’t think much of that great long tube that ran down the out side of the fender so I built a gadget with an automotive PCV value, + end attached to the filter, hide the rest of the value in a piece of the old tube, which is then connected(- end), to the crankcase breather outlet. It did two things. It really cleaned up the look of the bike, and it creates a vacuum in the crankcase which, I think is a good thing.
Here is what it look like.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Dam Paint. I started with Hammerite. It was very lumpy and difficult to get a smooth surface. Cleaning up afterwards was impossible. Thinners were too expensive. So I switched to “Rust Coat”. It’s a product here in Canada. Characteristics, very much like Hammerite. Brushes/cleanup, easy, even with varsol. Again very difficult to get a smooth surface. Switched to VHT Roll Bar & Chassis. Claims to be an epoxy base, so it should be chemical resistant. HOWEVER, you MUST use many fine coats or the paint will run and drip. So here I am with the frame. Not as good and smooth as I would like. There is still evidence of the Hammerite underneath.
Here is a picture of the Battery Box. I’ve left that in Hammerite.


Now to the Gas Tank
 

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..think you'll find Hammerite is xylene based so some brake/carb cleaners will take it off.I found this out when I'd done my car calipers.. Yes,a quick clean up and OMG,red paint everywhere over my alloy wheels... There must be a better product for you guys in the states???
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Paint and Dam Paint. I’m stuck on the gas tank. Took it right down to bare metal and used VHT Roll Bar & Chassis paint. No primer. Since its epoxy, it says wait 7 days for it to cure. I assumed that meant any type of sanding so I waited. Well the stuff is very light, and it runs like it had stolen something. 7 more days? Nix this stuff. Back to bare metal, Primer/Filler, sanding, nice and smooth, bought some Dupli-Color Engine Enamel (See picture below.. I think I might have gotten too close to the surface to cause those runs). Again 7 days to cure. I’ve bought a heat lamp hopping to reduce the 7 day wait time. Anyway, things aren’t going so good with paint.
 

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As a general rule, you cannot make enamels cure quickly. If you do not let them fully cure the next coat will cause the first coat to lift and you will end up with what looks like alligator skin on your parts. I you read the instructions on the can, you have a recoat window. If you spray within that window, you are fine, If you spray after, you get to strip it off and start over. Temperature play a role in this. If your basement is colder than your house, say 50 F, then the paint will take a lot longer to fully cure.

I would say that you need to learn how to spray paint. You don't lay on spray paint like you do with a brush. The paint viscosity is much thinner than brush paint or it would not spray out the nozzle. It would squirt, spit, spatter... anything but spray. To say VHT is simply stating the obvious about spray paint. Spray some of that Duplicolor into a cup until you have a small pool. It will be like water.

So, it goes on in fine, thin coats. It takes several passes to develop a coat and exhibit full color. You don't spray it in one pass and have full coverage. If you do, you are way too close to your work with the nozzle and you end up with what you have on that tank.

I've used Duplicolor enamel paints a lot and I've always been hard pressed to get them to run. One of the points I make when I recommend them is that very feature. They are very forgiving. I repainted the frame on an assembled bike with lots of masking. That paint work included the top tree. It came out great. Looks factory original.

So, my point is you are using the wrong technique. Do some web searches. I'm sure there are on-line vids on how to spray paint. Buy some cheap paint and practice your technique. It's a feel thing. You need to get a feel for when the coat is thick enough to quit. And you cannot rush a paint job. It you do, you get to do it all over again. I suggest you put up a piece of smooth cardboard and tape a piece of paper to it. Paint the paper. Make it a vertical surface. Screw it up, put up another piece of paper. It's time in the saddle that will give you the results you want. Or just take it somewhere and let the experts do it for you.

If it is any consolation, my wife cannot spray paint. Every time she tries she moves the can like she is having a seizure. It drives me nuts and I always end up taking over the job so it does not look like a delirious chimp painted whatever it was she was painting.

regards,
Rob
 
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