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Discussion Starter #61
Thanks.
I can find the 4412, but only in long lengths that is quite expensive...
I just had a look at the 3M spec sheets as well and the difference in strength between the 1 and 2mm is quite small, so it may not be an issue at all. I'm planning on adding Loctite to the spokes as well prior to adding the tape.


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The eBay seller I ordered from was listing 16.5 m of 2 mm tape 50 mm wide for just over 40 quid which was a great price, but they later said they had no stock and now the listing disappeared so not sure if it was legit.
I'm not sure if any extra strength is needed in this application as it's it's mainly it's sealing abilities that's important, even 1 mm tape feels quite thick when you compare it with typical duct tape.
What loctite are you planning on using, I'm not sure what I used was ideal it's just what I had lying around.
 

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The eBay seller I ordered from was listing 16.5 m of 2 mm tape 50 mm wide for just over 40 quid which was a great price, but they later said they had no stock and now the listing disappeared so not sure if it was legit.

I'm not sure if any extra strength is needed in this application as it's it's mainly it's sealing abilities that's important, even 1 mm tape feels quite thick when you compare it with typical duct tape.

What loctite are you planning on using, I'm not sure what I used was ideal it's just what I had lying around.
Cheapest I found so far was £57 for 18 yards of the 2mm, or then £21 for 5.5m of the 1mm.

I'm planning on getting Loctite 290 as per the 'collective wisdom' of this forum. I believe some folk have successfully sealed their rims with just this alone.

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nice work! I was thinkin about doing my T120 wheels but being boat anchors i opted for a set of Alpinas. prolly do my thumper a G650GS BMW adventure bike. thanks to all that ventured into the unknown!!
 

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I did mine a couple of months ago, best modification I`ve done so far.
Just a couple of observations and opinions
1. There IS a safety benefit but it is only minimal. Tubeless tyres are generally safer because they are less prone to blow outs causing the tyre to come off the rim. On our bikes, if you have a blowout with an inner tube and the tube splits, the air can only escape very slowly through the hole causing the puncture, as the tyre is beaded firmly, the inner tube valve is bolted in place and there is ALREADY tape sealing the spokes. In the event of a puncture at speed the tyre has exactly the same chance of staying on the rim, whether you are running tubes or not. The safety benefit is that deflation is likely to happen more slowly with a tubeless tyre.
2. Some people think that carrying a tube or a patch kit, a pump and a couple of levers is all they need to provide a roadside fix. I`d say that anyone attempting this is going to be in for a rude shock. It`s struggle even at home in the garage without a proper tyre changing rig. I`ve managed this on dirt bikes many times but this is a different hovercraft full of eels. It`s a pig.
3. Others think that carrying a can of gloop will also work. Our bikes come with butyl tubes, butyl tubes don`t bleed air like natural rubber tubs but they tend to split when penetrated, so there is a high probability that gloop won`t work. And if you don`t think it`s safe to do a home tubeless conversion, do you really think it`s safe to ride with gloop holiding your tube together? ;)
4. Lots of people will tell you it is insane/dangerous/stupid, none of them have actually tried, their opinions are based on fear.
5. Lots of people will tell you it works really well, they have ALL tried and their opinions are based on personal experience.
6. If you don`t have a tyre changing rig at home, remove the wheel at home, take it to a motorcycle shop to get the tyre removed, do the conversion then bring it back to have the tyre refitted. As per point 2, it`s a pig.

I also own a Scrambler 1200 XE and a Tiger Explorer, both run tubeless spoked wheels and if I wanted to do any big trips like overnight rides etc, I`d use either of these bikes and I`d only ever use the T120 for shorter rides because of the risk of getting stranded with a puncture and an expensive recovery. Now, I`m happy to do big trips on the T120, or at least I could if I wasn`t in lockdown!
 

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I don't think the rim tape on a regular tubed tyre will help seal it, its just there to protect the tube from nipple damage and that is definitely the case on a 1200 Thruxton.

You might be interested in the cable tie method of tyre changing tho. With regular levers the normal method is indeed like you say an absolute pig and like wrestling a hungry python, I'd say 8/10 difficulty but with cable ties it becomes a 3/10 and is actually quite rewarding especially if you have experience of that big hungry snake beforehand. The difference really is astonishing and its probably quicker to DIY this way than take to a shop. You'll need a static balance rig tho.
.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
I did mine a couple of months ago, best modification I`ve done so far.
Just a couple of observations and opinions
1. There IS a safety benefit but it is only minimal. Tubeless tyres are generally safer because they are less prone to blow outs causing the tyre to come off the rim. On our bikes, if you have a blowout with an inner tube and the tube splits, the air can only escape very slowly through the hole causing the puncture, as the tyre is beaded firmly, the inner tube valve is bolted in place and there is ALREADY tape sealing the spokes. In the event of a puncture at speed the tyre has exactly the same chance of staying on the rim, whether you are running tubes or not. The safety benefit is that deflation is likely to happen more slowly with a tubeless tyre.
2. Some people think that carrying a tube or a patch kit, a pump and a couple of levers is all they need to provide a roadside fix. I`d say that anyone attempting this is going to be in for a rude shock. It`s struggle even at home in the garage without a proper tyre changing rig. I`ve managed this on dirt bikes many times but this is a different hovercraft full of eels. It`s a pig.
3. Others think that carrying a can of gloop will also work. Our bikes come with butyl tubes, butyl tubes don`t bleed air like natural rubber tubs but they tend to split when penetrated, so there is a high probability that gloop won`t work. And if you don`t think it`s safe to do a home tubeless conversion, do you really think it`s safe to ride with gloop holiding your tube together? ;)
4. Lots of people will tell you it is insane/dangerous/stupid, none of them have actually tried, their opinions are based on fear.
5. Lots of people will tell you it works really well, they have ALL tried and their opinions are based on personal experience.
6. If you don`t have a tyre changing rig at home, remove the wheel at home, take it to a motorcycle shop to get the tyre removed, do the conversion then bring it back to have the tyre refitted. As per point 2, it`s a pig.

I also own a Scrambler 1200 XE and a Tiger Explorer, both run tubeless spoked wheels and if I wanted to do any big trips like overnight rides etc, I`d use either of these bikes and I`d only ever use the T120 for shorter rides because of the risk of getting stranded with a puncture and an expensive recovery. Now, I`m happy to do big trips on the T120, or at least I could if I wasn`t in lockdown!
Some good points well made but I think you've downplayed the safety benefits a little.

My tyre went down almost instantaneously even though the nail in tyre that caused the puncture was still sealed, as grinnygrl said the rim tape will not prevent air leaking out via the spokes, it's a quite stiff plastic strip that is only there to protect the tube and will never be airtight, but I think the main escape path for the air is around the valve stem, there is about 2 mm of play around the tube valve and no seals or o rings on the nuts so the air can just piss out.
Also my tyre/tube span on the rim a little when it deflated and bent the valve stem which probably made the leak even worse.
I'm 100% convinced that the same nail today in my tubeless tyre would cause only a very slow puncture at worst instead of a very sudden and rapid deflation so I think there is a major safety benefit.
Even though there's not much to show from the outside, except my nice right angled valves, it's still my favourite mod and I'm impressed that my first attempt worked so well and they haven't lost any pressure at all in six months so far. (y)
 

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I don't think the rim tape on a regular tubed tyre will help seal it, its just there to protect the tube from nipple damage and that is definitely the case on a 1200 Thruxton.

You might be interested in the cable tie method of tyre changing tho. With regular levers the normal method is indeed like you say an absolute pig and like wrestling a hungry python, I'd say 8/10 difficulty but with cable ties it becomes a 3/10 and is actually quite rewarding especially if you have experience of that big hungry snake beforehand. The difference really is astonishing and its probably quicker to DIY this way than take to a shop. You'll need a static balance rig tho.
.
Part of the difficulty of repairs on the road involve just removing and replacing the wheels. You need a pretty good tool kit to do it. The front involves removing at least one caliper and then somehow supporting the nose heavy bike that wants to fall forward. The rear involves removing the left muffler, caliper and chain. The cable tie method may work to replace a tubeless tire but I don't think it would be very easy to get the tube and valve stem back in place. I tried changing my tires at home with plenty of tools and was defeated trying to break the bead. My sealing tape (Outex kit) has worked well for quite a while now without any leaks. Just need to adjust pressure occasionally due to large temperature changes.

Chuck
 

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Did the tubeless mod on my 2016 T120 using the 3M 2mm tape and silicone sealant on nipples, lost a few pounds of pressure in each tyr over first few days but now they hold well, no loss in 4 weeks, but hasn't been ridden much in that time due to lockdown.
Happy with it and the wider choice of tyres available; I used Michelin Piloy Activs..
 

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Yes, cable ties and tubes would not work. Another reason to go tubeless. Outex kit is excellent. Lighter, safer and easier to repair minor punctures by the roadside and to do your own tyre change back at base. Bead breaker essential tho.
 

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My Outex conversion I did on my Thruxton last summer still holds air as it should and has worked out well. My plan to retire and spend the summer touring through the western U.S. has not worked out so well.
 

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I turned my T120 wheels tubeless following the instructions in this video and using the same materials, and I'm now at over 8,000 miles later with no leaks (nor loose spokes)!


Took my bike to my regular shop and they charged me their standard tire changing fee to pop off my wheels/tires and store the bike overnight. After that the process was comically easy and did not take long at all The only fuss was finding thinner valve stems so I didn't have to drill out the valve stem holes, but thankfully another local bike shop happened to have 2 to sell me:
 

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My Outex conversion I did on my Thruxton last summer still holds air as it should and has worked out well. My plan to retire and spend the summer touring through the western U.S. has not worked out so well.
I did the Outex kit on my legend and its worked out well over the winter my rear tire lost no air front tire lost two lps very pleased with the modification now Cary small tubles repair kit and mini compressor
 

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I've often considered doing the tubeless conversion on my '14 T-100. The main reason for that being that there is virtually no way to do a roadside repair on one of those bikes without a center stand and then throw an unpaved road shoulder into the mix and in my opinion you're just out of luck if you have a flat. l've had two flat rear tires on the road with my T-100 so I know a thing or two about that situation. With a tubeless tire, you can plug and reinflate unless there's some sort of gaping hole in the tire.

The other reason is that the spoked steel wheels are just incredibly heavy and I'd really like to get some of that unsprung weight off the machine so I continue my quest to find a set of alloy wheels to fit it. Yeah, I know---the alloy wheels are not as "stylish" as the spoked wheels.

And then speaking of changing the tire in your home shop, I had just put a brand new Michelin tire and HD tube on the rear of my bike and got a nail in the fool thing---less than 50 miles! So I got a new tube and dragged the wheel/tire down to my local shop and asked them to just replace the tube. I watched and noticed that the tech only dismounted one bead and pulled the bad tube out and stuffed the new one in. Why I never thought of doing that to change only the tube is beyond me. That cuts the work load by at least half!
 

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"" I turned my T120 wheels tubeless following the instructions in this video and using the same materials, and I'm now at over 8,000 miles later with no leaks (nor loose spokes)! ""


What products are exactly used in this video?
Thank you
 

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The main part is a 3M sealing tape--
it needs to be 50 mm wide and about 5.5m long for both wheels, you can seal the nipples with any decent silicone sealant
3M™ Extreme Sealing Tape 4412N
 

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"" I turned my T120 wheels tubeless following the instructions in this video and using the same materials, and I'm now at over 8,000 miles later with no leaks (nor loose spokes)! ""


What products are exactly used in this video?
Thank you
3M Marine Adhesive/Sealant: 3M Marine Adhesive/Sealant Fast Cure (White, 10 fl.oz): Polyurethane Adhesives: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
3M 4412N Sealant Tape 2" Wide: Amazon.com: 3M 4412N Sealant Tape Roll - 2 in. (W) x 15 ft. (L) Translucent, Pressure Sensitive Acrylic Adhesive Sealing Tape. Zero Curing Sealant: Industrial & Scientific

Honestly, I could have probably just used the sealant tape, and it would have worked out just fine. The redundancy of tape pressing the sealant plug was mainly for peace of mind. But with both acting together I have no idea how this setup could ever fail, save for maybe the valve, which would be pretty easy to replace if needbe.
 

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Here's what I did a while back....
No regrets so far using the 3M 4412N tape along with a new set of Pirelli Angel GTs. So far have not had a puncture (touch wood) to test the ease of repair, but I do carry a plug type repair kit. After trying and failing at home, no way would I attempt to remove/fix a tire on roadside. Reaffirmed my intent to go tubeless!
 

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I used the same method as evansigmund last year. Right after getting a rear flat on a 200 mile new tire thanks to a disposable knife blade. The tire rapidIy deflated but I was able to get to the side of the road safely. After a tow truck ride home I ordered the 3M tape from ebay and bought the 3M 5200 from the local big box hardware store, picked up a valve at NAPA. I had a local shop remove the tire for me and worked a deal that I would bring the tire and wheel back to be remounted when I got it sealed up. The tube was shot, with a 4" gash in it. I didn't have to do any grinding on the wheel or spoke nipples. Just cleaned everything with MEK then rubbing alcohol. Applied the marine sealant to the spoke nipple ends and let it set up overnight. Placed the tape the next day and had the shop mount the tire. 5000 miles later it's been trouble free. I now carry a plug kit with a number of CO2 inflators, thankfully haven't had to use it yet. I have enough tape left to do the front but believe I'll wait until I need a new tire before attacking it.
 
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