Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 20 of 87 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've got a new rear tyre waiting to go on my Thruxton but I'm thinking about doing a DIY tubeless conversion at the same time using 3m tape.
Only reason is I'm worried a puncture could cause a rapid deflation with the existing setup, anybody had this happen or am I worrying about nothing?
Has anybody sealed the rims themselves with tape?
Do the standard tubeless valves fit the rim or do you need to drill the hole out?
Just noticed I can see see steel wire in a few tiny spots in the centre of the tread so I need to decide in the next couple of days:grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,435 Posts
If you can see wire your tyre is knackered get it changed NOW . Having experienced punctures with and without tubes yes a tubed tyre puncture is far more disconcerting . Last one I had was in the rear on a Supermoto when I ripped the valve out of the tube .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
There are several posts scattered about different threads about doing this. The short answer yes many people have successfully done this. Valve stems that fit the existing hole and are secured with a nut are readily available. Due to the width of the rear tire it is much easier to correctly place the tape than on a narrower front but they can be done as well. I don't know about the Thruxton but on my T120 I can't carry enough tools to fix a tube flat even if I was able to break the bead.
This is one of the more comprehensive threads about tubeless conversion https://www.triumphrat.net/water-cooled-twins-technical-talk/833321-t120-wire-wheel-tubeless-conversion.html

Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
There are several posts scattered about different threads about doing this. The short answer yes many people have successfully done this. Valve stems that fit the existing hole and are secured with a nut are readily available. Due to the width of the rear tire it is much easier to correctly place the tape than on a narrower front but they can be done as well. I don't know about the Thruxton but on my T120 I can't carry enough tools to fix a tube flat even if I was able to break the bead.
This is one of the more comprehensive threads about tubeless conversion https://www.triumphrat.net/water-cooled-twins-technical-talk/833321-t120-wire-wheel-tubeless-conversion.html

Chuck
Thanks for the link, I was just on my way out and being a bit lazy not searching:smile2:

After reading that thread decided it's a bit too much hassle this time around as I need the tyre doing right away, also if you have to pay somebody to remove the tire as I do it's another £25 each time if it doesn't go right on top of the cost of the valve and the tape.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
After considerable research, I concluded 1) tubeless tires are inconvenient at best, since they cannot be plugged at the side of the road as can tubeless tires, 2) depending on roadside assistance may be overly optimistic, especially in areas where cell service is problematic or non-existent, 3) where you can expect help from roadside assistance, you're still going to need to be towed to a shop which can replace a punctured tube, 4) tubeless tires pose a notable risk in case of a puncture because they deflate much more rapidly than tubeless tires, which can lead to a loss of control, 5) conversion efforts using tape require particular care when changing tires, 6) the conversions may regularly lose some amount of pressure due to the challenge of making the wheel completely airtight (reports of many successful conversions notwithstanding), 7) many dealers will not undertake such conversions, and 8) there is a product, Ride-On, which purports to render even tubed tires puncture-proof, but it's difficult to find much in the way of objective testing to verify that claim; videos exists of the product working in tubeless tires, and 9) by far the best thing to do is to replace the stock wheels with purpose-built wheels intended for tubeless tires, admittedly at a price which includes new tubeless tires in addition to new wheels and the expense of having them mounted if you don't do it yourself.

As best I can tell, most people here just ride on unmodified factory wheels and hope for the best, perhaps understandably due to the considerable expense of changing out wheels and tires to more modern (and arguably safer) specification.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
As best I can tell, most people here just ride on unmodified factory wheels and hope for the best...
Or they might just ride on unmodified wheels with tube type tires based on the millions of miles riders have put on tubed tires who never have experienced a flat.

Based on my 50+ years of riding I concluded that if one buys quality tires, maintains them properly, doesn't try to squeeze that last 500 miles or so out of the tires, and pays attention to where they ride the odds of a flat are mitigated.

JMO...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Or they might just ride on unmodified wheels with tube type tires based on the millions of miles riders have put on tubed tires who never have experienced a flat.

Based on my 50+ years of riding I concluded that if one buys quality tires, maintains them properly, doesn't try to squeeze that last 500 miles or so out of the tires, and pays attention to where they ride the odds of a flat are mitigated.

JMO...
You can apply the same logic to riding without ABS and traction control. Nobody needs their benefits. Until they do.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
You can apply the same logic to riding without ABS and traction control. Nobody needs their benefits. Until they do.
If you need 'em or want 'em then they are there for you.

Curious how so many survived so long without ABS and traction control?

ABS, traction control, and the like has been around motorcycling for seconds compared to the decades and decades and decades so many have ridden without them and lived to tell the tale.

Rather than rely on tech to overcome one's ego I subscribe to the Clint Eastwood axioms... "a mans got to know his limitations" and "do you feel lucky?".

Both have served many riders well from before helmets were common.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
461 Posts
Started riding when ABS was just entering the market on the higher end bike....BMW etc. Returning to biking and buying my 2013 Thruxton many years later, I had assumed ABS would be standard. I was wrong!

Yes, I wish I had it, but continue to ride without it.

As far a tubed/tubeless goes, yes, I have experienced a tube blow. Cause was unclear, but it went near the valve stem. Very scary...almost total loss of control trying to keep it upright (it was the rear tire). Veered into the opposite lane, fortunately no oncoming traffic. So my recommendation is yes, go tubeless with the conversion as I did. I remain happy, but have not as yet experienced another puncture since installing (thank God) to contrast the two experiences.

Here is my link along with initial reaction to the new Pirelli Angel GT's

https://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-twins-talk/933049-going-tubeless-with-the-angels-part-1-a.html

What ever you decide, as someone suggested, many have happily ridden zillions of miles with tubes, but from what I've read the outcome of a slower deflation can be a life saver. And a temporary plug from a nail etc will reduce the inconvenience of being stranded, to get you home.

All best, ride safe, Thruxty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,146 Posts
After considerable research, I concluded 1) tubeless tires are inconvenient at best, since they cannot be plugged at the side of the road as can tubeless tires, 2) depending on roadside assistance may be overly optimistic, especially in areas where cell service is problematic or non-existent, 3) where you can expect help from roadside assistance, you're still going to need to be towed to a shop which can replace a punctured tube, 4) tubeless tires pose a notable risk in case of a puncture because they deflate much more rapidly than tubeless tires, which can lead to a loss of control, 5) conversion efforts using tape require particular care when changing tires, 6) the conversions may regularly lose some amount of pressure due to the challenge of making the wheel completely airtight (reports of many successful conversions notwithstanding), 7) many dealers will not undertake such conversions, and 8) there is a product, Ride-On, which purports to render even tubed tires puncture-proof, but it's difficult to find much in the way of objective testing to verify that claim; videos exists of the product working in tubeless tires, and 9) by far the best thing to do is to replace the stock wheels with purpose-built wheels intended for tubeless tires, admittedly at a price which includes new tubeless tires in addition to new wheels and the expense of having them mounted if you don't do it yourself.

As best I can tell, most people here just ride on unmodified factory wheels and hope for the best, perhaps understandably due to the considerable expense of changing out wheels and tires to more modern (and arguably safer) specification.
First off reread your post, you used tubeless too many times. Second, Ride on sealant is not going to plug a tube unless you just happened to pick up a small tack as you rolled back into the garage. When your at speed and you puncture a tube 99% of the time it rips. Thus the rapid loss of air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
194 Posts
Yes, Ride On only claims 45-55% success on tubed tires. Much better on tubeless.

I saw a rear tubeless blowout once and it was scary. Fortunately the rider ran off the road and was able to recover without cracking.

I too would like to go tubeless but just having a piece of tape keep the air in with all those spokes seems a little scary. My apologies to you who have successfully done that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
If you need 'em or want 'em then they are there for you.

Curious how so many survived so long without ABS and traction control?

ABS, traction control, and the like has been around motorcycling for seconds compared to the decades and decades and decades so many have ridden without them and lived to tell the tale.

Rather than rely on tech to overcome one's ego I subscribe to the Clint Eastwood axioms... "a mans got to know his limitations" and "do you feel lucky?".

Both have served many riders well from before helmets were common.
At what point in time we should have stopped improving vehicles/bikes? No front brake? No suspension? Drum brakes? Hand shift? Geez, I Wonder how many decades people rode like that and lived to tell the tale. Seriously, you bring up helmets as being a luxury? Wow.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
At what point in time we should have stopped improving vehicles/bikes? No front brake? No suspension? Drum brakes? Hand shift? Geez, I Wonder how many decades people rode like that and lived to tell the tale. Seriously, you bring up helmets as being a luxury? Wow.
I think there are more "people who rode like that and lived to tell the tale" than there are new riders today and there is more interest in acquiring those old, dangerous, classic motorcycles than ever before.
I'd love to walk out to my garage, open the door, and find a mint Vincent Black Shadow complete with springer fork and single leading shoe front brake. I'd put away my T100 and ride that Vincent EVERYWHERE.

Did not say helmets were a "luxury" rather that they were not common.The stupidity of not wearing a helmet continues today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,435 Posts
What’s the difference between a blowout with a tube and no tube, and why?
In my experience when a tubed tyre has a puncture it happens quickly with little to no warning , instant loss of control . On the front if you are very lucky you may keep it upright just hope there's nothing in the way you are a passenger . On the rear it should be a little easier to stay right way up . If you haven't experienced it I can only say its like riding on ice with a bit less control . A tubeless puncture usually goes down slower giving warning of impending doom . Yes over many years I have experienced them all , and it has happened so often that I still run tubes in both my Thruxtons .0:)>:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
Yes, Ride On only claims 45-55% success on tubed tires. Much better on tubeless.

I saw a rear tubeless blowout once and it was scary. Fortunately the rider ran off the road and was able to recover without cracking.

I too would like to go tubeless but just having a piece of tape keep the air in with all those spokes seems a little scary. My apologies to you who have successfully done that.
The tape, at least in the Outex kit I used, is thicker than the rubber inner tube used in the tube tires. Seems to hold air in with all those spokes just fine. My concern will be that it not get damaged when changing tires. Shouldn't be a problem as long as whoever does that is aware of the tape and is careful.

In my 55+ years of riding motorcycles I have had a number of flats. Always in the back tire. The front tire tends to kick up the offending items and the back gets them. A flat in a tube tire can get pretty hairy. On one occasion it introduced a true tank slapper reaction at freeway speeds. Every flat I have had with tubeless tires I was able to air it up enough to get home, often without resorting to the plug repair kits I always carry.

I can only get tube type tires that are proper for my sidecar rig so I am SOL if I get a flat on it. Down to a cell phone and AAA card.

Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
I've got a new rear tyre waiting to go on my Thruxton but I'm thinking about doing a DIY tubeless conversion at the same time using 3m tape.
Only reason is I'm worried a puncture could cause a rapid deflation with the existing setup, anybody had this happen or am I worrying about nothing?
Has anybody sealed the rims themselves with tape?
Do the standard tubeless valves fit the rim or do you need to drill the hole out?
Just noticed I can see see steel wire in a few tiny spots in the centre of the tread so I need to decide in the next couple of days:grin2:

"Swapped speed twin wheels onto my thruxton r. The performance increase is eye opening to say the least."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
In my experience when a tubed tyre has a puncture it happens quickly with little to no warning , instant loss of control . On the front if you are very lucky you may keep it upright just hope there's nothing in the way you are a passenger . On the rear it should be a little easier to stay right way up . If you haven't experienced it I can only say its like riding on ice with a bit less control . A tubeless puncture usually goes down slower giving warning of impending doom . Yes over many years I have experienced them all , and it has happened so often that I still run tubes in both my Thruxtons .0:)>:)

What are the mechanics behind that I wonder? If the pressure is the same why would a tubed tire be more explosive at flat?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
What are the mechanics behind that I wonder? If the pressure is the same why would a tubed tire be more explosive at flat?
I would guess it because once the tube is punctured the air can escape much quicker through all the spokes and round the valve stem which aren't sealed.
In a tubeless tyre the air will only escape through the original puncture hole which can be quite small.

Anyway just had it changed today, kept the tube in.
Might have another rethink when it's time to do the front as that straight valve stem is a PITA:frown2:
 
  • Like
Reactions: ejb and Tricolour

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
I went with the tubeless conversion using 3M tape, mainly because getting a flat on a modern Bonneville with OEM tires means that the bike has to go to a shop. The mufflers need to be removed in order to pull the rear wheel and breaking the bead means that you’re not doing that on the side of the road.

Tubeless tires can be plugged and reinflated and off you go. Could even be done with a plug kit and a small compressor roadside.

I live in Seattle, where there is a DIY shop called the Motoshed. I pulled both wheels in my garage, took them to the Shed, they took off the tires. I cleaned the inside of the wheels to a mirror finish, installed the 3M tape, hit it with a heat gun to melt it to the rim (the tape is very soft and flexible, so it does not need to get very hot), installed new valve stems. Motoshed then installed a set of Continental Road Attacks that I’d brought along.

I’ve ridden this setup for about 2,000 miles now. No problems, no worries. The shop work was pretty fun, too.


So from my single data point, I’d highly recommend making the upgrade. Consider some Road Attack tires while you’re at it!
 
1 - 20 of 87 Posts
Top