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Fuel injectors- testing - 06 s3

3K views 25 replies 6 participants last post by  010509Speedy 
#1 ·
New to the forum, new to triumphs, not new to bikes. Attempting to resurrect an 06 speed triple. Was sitting for over a year. I cleaned the tank before doing anything. Had a small amount of brown sludge on fuel pump base plate.

16k miles, I confirmed spark by pulling center plug and verifying while cranking. Plug was bone dry after multiple attempts to start. Has solid compression. Next move to verify power to injectors.

Key on, I have 12v to one side. Zero to the other. While cranking, power jumps but to fast to read. (Cranked without tank and airbox).

My question and thoughts go towards plugged/gummed injectors or fuel rail?

Gurus? Does that make sense??
Thanks in advance!
 
#2 ·
New to the forum, new to triumphs, not new to bikes. Attempting to resurrect an 06 speed triple. Was sitting for over a year. I cleaned the tank before doing anything. Had a small amount of brown sludge on fuel pump base plate.

16k miles, I confirmed spark by pulling center plug and verifying while cranking. Plug was bone dry after multiple attempts to start. Has solid compression. Next move to verify power to injectors.

Key on, I have 12v to one side. Zero to the other. While cranking, power jumps but to fast to read. (Cranked without tank and airbox).

My question and thoughts go towards plugged/gummed injectors or fuel rail?

Gurus? Does that make sense??
Thanks in advance!
Does the fuel tank need to be hooked up during testing of injectors?

I wanted to confirm that's the problem area before throwing parts at it if that makes sense.
Joe
 
#7 · (Edited)
Does the fuel tank need to be hooked up during testing of injectors?
No, but if you haven't got a pressurised fuel rail behind the injectors it's going to be difficult to tell if they're cycling or not. I'd hook up the fuel tank and run the pump (either direct from battery or with TuneECU) then manually power each injector (need to be sure what voltage to apply, don't want to fry them!) to see if fuel is released. You could even do this with just the tank, the battery and the fuel rail.


Any one know what controls the signal to the injectors to turn on?
The ECU only fires the injectors when it thinks the relevant cylinder is in the right place in the cycle based on crankshaft position sensor readings. Have you checked your CPS is properly gapped and reads within spec with an ohmmeter?

I'm not sure if the Keihin ECU on 1050s does this, but on 955s you can pull the spark plugs, ground them to the engine block then crank and see them sparking in sequence. That might help you indirectly verify the CPS is providing a signal to the ECU.
Edit: You've already done this, my bad.


Good pressure when I disconnect the tank (aka fuel spray).
Not to rain on your parade but you can't verify the pressure by having the pump squirt into a bottle, all you know is that it's pumping. You'd need to hook in a pressure gauge to check you're getting the required 3 bar.
 
#3 ·
You can test ‘em with a 9 volt battery. You can also clean ‘em this way either with Motion Pro’s dealio or DIY it with an old valve stem from a car tire. You can’t really back flush them with the DIY method but it can help to see if you have a decent spray pattern. Keep working it with carb cleaner and they will eventually clean up.
 
#4 ·
Any one know what controls the signal to the injectors to turn on? I have zero flow through the injectors. Fuel pump appears to be good. Cleaned tank etc., all connections good. Good pressure when I disconnect the tank (aka fuel spray). I swapped injectors and the injector rail and attempted to squirt into paper towel with both sets. No flow through the injectors. Assuming I am missing something obvious. All lights work. Engine cranks over as it should. No dash reset while cranking. Full battery and on tender while testing. No codes.

What controls the signal to the injectors to "fire", but allows everything else to work as normal.

Help.
 
#8 ·
Thanks Rampant. I later hooked up the gas tank and repeated testing to remove that variable.

I'm leading towards fuel pressure as root cause. The Crank Position Sensor would also cut spark correct? Or am I wrong there? So if I have spark and no fuel, I should stay on the fuel circuit?

That's my thinking and why I haven't ventured down the CPS route yet.

Thanks
 
#9 ·
I later hooked up the gas tank and repeated testing to remove that variable.
I'm not sure what you mean, did you hook up the fuel tank to the fuel rail then crank the bike over to see if the injectors cycle (i.e. is the ECU firing the injectors)? If so did any of the injectors release fuel?


The Crank Position Sensor would also cut spark correct?
Yeah good point, and the ECU should throw an error code if the CPS is dodgy. Staying on the fuel circuit then, as above have you had any of the injectors successfully release fuel under any condition?

You can rule out a blocked fuel hose/rail by removing the injector for cylinder 3 from the rail and blowing down the hose from the fuel tank end, or running the fuel pump instead. If air/fuel respectively comes out of the port on the rail then you know you don't have a blockage there. Note: I'm not familiar with the 1050 fuel hose, if the connectors are dry-break then blowing down the hose won't work.
 
#10 ·
Hooked up the gas tank as normal installation and repeated starting attempts. I have since removed fuel injection rail/injectors to test in to paper towel for pulse while trying to start. Also swapped another used set of injectors and repeated. No flow. I am going to bench test injectors next with 12v battery. If "clicking " I will go after another fuel pump assembly.
 
#11 ·
There is a way to bench test injectors. It requires an air compressor though. The rail being in a vice, fitted vertically, fill up the rail and hose w/ fuel and connect your air compressor (set at 3 bars) to the fuel hose. Then power each injector w/ a 9V battery begening w/ the upper most injector. You'll be able to check the spray pattern as well.
 
#12 ·
Update - verified injectors click over with 9v. Also there was some residual fuel and each injector kicked some fuel over. So, with that, I'm going to swap out the fuel pump. Assuming regulator and or fuel pump is not registering correct fuel pressure and not kicking the ECU to fire the injectors. Unless someone else has some input on another root cause?

I did notice that when attempting to start - key on, fuel pump turns on and typical whine, then ignition to start, release starter button, the fuel pump does not "restart" its process even for a second. I thought that was weird.
 
#13 ·
Update - verified injectors click over with 9v. Also there was some residual fuel and each injector kicked some fuel over. So, with that, I'm going to swap out the fuel pump. Assuming regulator and or fuel pump is not registering correct fuel pressure and not kicking the ECU to fire the injectors. Unless someone else has some input on another root cause?
There is no information regarding the fuel pressure that is going to the ECU. You ought to verify whether the injectors are spraying or not.
I did notice that when attempting to start - key on, fuel pump turns on and typical whine, then ignition to start, release starter button, the fuel pump does not "restart" its process even for a second. I thought that was weird.
The pump primes when the key is switched to the on position, then stops. It restarts only once the engine is running.
 
#14 ·
I did verify that the injectors are not spraying. Injectors are wrapped with paper towel. Everything is hooked up per OEM that I can tell. Bike cranks, has spark, but no squirt from injectors. Swapped injectors from used set on ebay from running bike, same result. No squirt from injectors.
 
#15 ·
So no fuel. Did you check whether they are powered. It's be difficult w/ a multimeter as it's only short pulses. An oscilloscope would be better. Or a led + resistor in place of the injector. Still you can check the 12V side of the injectors as they are ground switched.
 
#18 ·
The pressure doesn't kick the injector as it was on the mechanical injection. A low pressure would only produce a bad spray pattern and a low amount of fuel.
So if your injectors are spray on the bench and not on the bike while the 12V arrives to them maybe your CPS is at fault. Worth checking the gap.
 
#17 ·
Harbor Freight sells a set of noid light that plug into injectors so you can see if they are getting signals, use mine alot to diagnose stuff. I also have a fuel pressure tester I hook in line to test. Think Harbor freight sells these as well, mine is an older one from my shop days.Injectors are supplied with 12 volts and ecu sends a signal to ground them to fire.Bought my own fuel injector cleaner/test machine as I have 4 racebikes with 8 injectors each, at 25 to 30 dollars each to test/clean it paid for itself in no time!
 
#21 ·
My money is on the ECU as well. I found the manual and troubleshot the system.

I jumped a fuel injector to ground and instant fuel spray. The manual was a huge help through the process (aka, should have started there). Seems odd that the ECU would fault out, but I'm new to Triumphs and guess anything can happen.
 
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