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Hi All,

I am looking to update the look and handling of my Triple, has anyone done a succesful job of this that can help?

I am after GSXR/R1/something shiny, happy to build new yokes.

Anyone done it? Below piccy of said beast.

(Piccy removed, was very large.)
 

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(Moved to T3 forum)

All 01+ GSXR models use same bearings in the steering head (actually most late model Suzukis are same incl Hayabusa) with 30/55/17 bearings top & bottom.

Your bottom bearing is the same - also same as that of the FI gen Speed Triples.

I'm not sure what your top bearing is however.
It's not the same as the later (T5) model bearing, at least not by part number but have no idea what the OD is (which is critical dimesnion you need).

For the 97-04 model speed triple, it uses a 25/52/15 bearing at thetop - but it is possible to get a special 30/52/16 bearing that will work with the Triumph steering head and the 30mm OD of the Suzuki steering stem.

Not sure if that will help in your case.
If you can identify the OD of the top bearing, then you can look for one that matches with a 30mm ID.

Alternatively, since you are dealing with same diameter bottom bearing, you may be able to press out the stem from the Triumph bottom triple & press into the GSXR unit. Not sure how that would work with the GSXR top triple, but you could either bore or sleeve the stem hole as appropriate if that diameter is different.

Check my signature for my T5/GSXR conversion which may offer some guidance;
also check this thread for Hayabusa swap into Sprint. Both of those bikes share common head bearings so you could mix n match between those.
I have a LOT of info on Suzuki forks if you need some direct questions answered re dimensions etc. (see the table that is posted in the Sprint thread which will answer a lot of that however)

Good Luck!


Update!

(worked this out thanks to OneWheel's measurements)

So it appears that the top bearing used in the T3 is actually a 25/47 but has a 'cup' that it sits in, which is 51mm OD
Ideal replacement bearings would be 51/30 (eliminating the cup) or a 47/30, retaining the cup.

But these bearing sizes do not exist in the mainstream bearing supply market.

The options are:

1) Coincidentally the Suzuki SV650 Gen 1 uses a 25/47 bearing also - Zoran at TwinWorksFactoryRacing can supply modified bearings for the GSXR steering stems which will plug n play with the 30mm GSXR stems.
The modified bearing is 47mm OD, 30mm ID - just what you need to fit in the OEM cup.
You can source that here - http://www.twfracing.com/images/zparts/steering_head_bearing_lg.jpeg

2) You can use the aforementioned 30/52/16 mm bearing (NTN 4T-CR-0643) - then you would need to modify the cup to take the 1mm larger bearing.
Great if you have a lathe! - I happen to have one! :p

Either of those will work - the first is just purchase and install; the second, you will need to modify either yourself or at machine shop

Certainly quite do-able.
 

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I too am keen for an USD front end but I think the problem may be finding a long enough fork. Have a look at the table of dimensions on the fork swap sticky and you will see that the longest fork (GSXR600 from memory) still falls way short of the T3 length.

The Suzuki forks would be great as our wheel can be married up and brakes will be sweet.

Maybe a custom made top triple would be the answer, it would have to step down considerably and the clip-ons would end up much lower.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Roden
 

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Welcome, Gumballer. Apologies for removing your pic, but it was large enough to interfere with reading the posts. Feel free to put a smaller version back, say up to 2/3 the size you had before.

I looked into bearing size a bit, but all I could come up with was this:

All Balls makes a kit for the T3s, PN 22-1053.

Dennis Kirk does not stock that PN, so I can't x-ref from it.

Cheers,
-Kit
 

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..
All Balls makes a kit for the T3s, PN 22-1053.
I would think if you call (or e-mail) Kit, they might give you the bearing type? You might need to explain the reason so as not to appear that you just want number to buy from someone else! :p

Edit
- Whoops - even easier!

I just looked up the 99 Speed Triple and the all-balls kit is the same part number - which also means that the top bearing must be the same i.e. 25/52/15
(*assuming that is that AllBalls has correctly identified the bearing for the early carb Speed Triple* - they do list the same number for the Daytonas also though.)

So you would need the special bearing which is a an NTN 4T-CR-0643 (30 x 52 x 16) or equivelant to use a GSXR stem in the Triumph head and as mentioned earlier, bottom bearing is same size for both anyway
That bearing incidentally is used on 2008 Yamaha RoadStar Warrior

Edit - apparently they did not! See edit in post # 2
 

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So the same 22-1050 All Balls kit that works in the 955 Sprints will work in the T3 bikes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Guys, that all got a little technical for me, I was hopping ten minutes on ebay with the old Barclcard would have me a nice Busa front end. I wil have a good dig and see what I can find.

What hadnt occured to me is the need for all new clock and headlamp holders once Upside down forks are added.

I will report back with results!;)
 

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DEcosse, I likey the look of those fork extenders, good find. Its got me thinking that any good machine shop would be able to spin something like that up fairly easily, hmmm. Good news about the bearings too.

I already have a T509 instrument cluster installed and I am on the look out for bug eyes and instrument mount from that model, twould be sweet married up with usd forks me thinks...

Gumballer, I don't think it would be too hard to mount S3 clocks to 'busa top triple, that would be the least of the problems. Speedo drive and wheel spacing is what needs a bit of research. Hopefully, the early FI bikes were the same.

I'm excited :D

Cheers,

Roden
 

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....I don't think it would be too hard to mount S3 clocks to 'busa top triple, that would be the least of the problems. Speedo drive and wheel spacing is what needs a bit of research....
For the first part, that may not be as trivial as you think; the S3 clocks mount to the underside of the OEM top triple clamp. The Daytona arrangement might actually be easier to work with.

I can probably help with the latter question - I have the dimensions for most of the Suzuki configurations. The wider configurations (214 mm fork spacing) is certainly easier to accommodate the speedo drive but even the GSXRs narrower (207mm) spread can be dealt with. But not sure of your wheel dimesnions - I see that the internal wheel spacer is different from the T5's so presumably has different spacing between the bearings. Can you share what that is and I'll figure out spacers for you? (depending on which forks selected of course!)

The Haybusa forks might be good choice for this bike I think (other than the length) - I believe that caliper mount spacing on T3 is actually the same (also same as the later Sprints, but different to the T5 S3, yes?) so you could even retain the Triumph calipers.
 

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Yes indeed, caliper spacings are the same. Hayabusa brakes are a popular upgrade on the T3's.

Does anyone have the spacer dimensions recorded for the T3 bikes or has the front wheel off at the moment and can measure?

If not, I will drop the front wheel of this weekend (Easter) and measure up.

Busa front ends come up quite often and would be a good choice and I know a great guy in Sydney who does custom suspension work who could probably help out with the length issue.

Of the forks that is ;)

Cheers,

Roden
 

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... If not, I will drop the front wheel of this weekend (Easter) and measure up. ...
While it's off check the rotor spacing if you can also
measure outside face to opposite outside face and subtract one rotor thickness. Then we can also determine if/what caliper spacers would be required.
(on the 'busa it's 134 - on the T5/Sprint it's 129 - so 2.5mm spacer between each caliper mount & fork centers them perfectly)

One thing to recognize - you'll have a much shorter offset in the 'Busa triples, which by itself would lead to increased trail - so the drop in front end height might not be as drastic as you might expect! Those two will be somewhat 'off-setting' - no pun intended! :p

Take a look at this post and you can even do the math to see what your net result would be.
A good rule of thumb is 1" would make about 1 deg difference in rake (bit you can probably also do the exact math for that if so inclined)
 

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I'm thinking to simplify things further, why not swap in the entire Busa or TL front end, wheel and all? From memory, the Busa wheels are very similar to the Brembo on the T3's. It would open up a lot of choice on rotors too, which we don't currently have on the T3 models.

A couple of questions:

- Doesn't the Busa top clamp have risers as part of the casting?
I just seem to remember something like that on my mates Busa
although I didn't take a whole lot of notice.
- Will the T3 speedo drive adapt to a Busa/TL wheel?

Other things such as fender adaption, lights, instruments etc I think I can deal with.

Maybe TL is the answer complete with the clip-ons.

The other thing will be length, if the different offset in the clamps results in only a very slight drop due to change in trail, then thats ok, but too much could make handling very hairy :eek:

Cheers,

Roden
 

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I'm thinking to simplify things further, why not swap in the entire Busa or TL front end, wheel and all? ...
Because you can't intergrate the speedo function and will lose that capability - not to mention increased cost & mismatched wheels.

You cannot use a mechanical axle/wheel speed sender with a Suzuki wheel, which has no provision at all for a speedo drive - pretty much all USD suzukis have electronic speed sender at output shaft
So you need to try to preserve original Triumph wheel to retain that function.
Besides - the axle & caliper spacers are trivial - don't worry about it, not a big deal.

Yes, the Hayabusa top clamp (quite, quite different from 'normal' clamps as is in two parts!) does indeed have integrated bar clamps.
Just look on EBay & you'll see exactly what they look like. That's specifically why I suggested them - you should end up with very similar bar height as regular T3 config.
Potential issues would be the ignition mount & instruments mount but forks/bars should be straight forward

Trail - the offset difference is quite considerable - 32mm on a 'Busa/TLS - 40mm on a T5 - would imagine similar on a T3.

Here are the parts fiche for the 'busa triple - you can see how the top clamp is two pieces
The first fiche shows the actual top triple clamp;
second shows the top 'half' being the part that carries the bars.



 

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Thanks DEcosse, you are a champ. I should have read through your fork swap thread before asking those questions!

I do like the Hayabusa bar set-up, it is really nicely engineered and would not look out of place on a T3 I think.

I just went and measured the offset on my bike, roughly 36-37mm.
The rotor dimension, outside face to outside face is 138.5, again a rough measurement with a steel rule. Still got to measure the axle spacer but I'm riding tomorrow and Saturday, so the wheel ain't coming off tonight.

So seeing that the bearings might be sorted, this could be a goer.

I'm on the lookout for a new front end now. Anodised gold finish, black wheels, thin gold rim strips, satin black bug-eyes, oh, my wife's gonna kill me...

Cheers,

Roden
 

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The rotor dimension, outside face to outside face is 138.5
...so I measured the rotor thickness at 4.95mm on the unworn lip of the O/D. That gives rotor centres at 133.55mm. This seems an odd dimension, I will confirm the first measurement with a vernier caliper but given that I am correct, 0.25mm shims are needed. Thats 0.0010". It might be that the T3 Sprint rotors will pretty much drop straight into the busa calipers.

Cheers,

Roden
 

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....That gives rotor centres at 133.55mm. This seems an odd dimension, I will confirm the first measurement with a vernier caliper but given that I am correct, 0.25mm shims are needed. ..
Remember that the caliper pistons will accommodate quite a bit of offset from the rotors being perfectly centered in the calipers.
From that perspective, sounds like no spacer at all will be necessary as that is easily within the capabilities of the caliper to deal with that tiny offset.
 

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Remember that the caliper pistons will accommodate quite a bit of offset from the rotors being perfectly centered in the calipers.
From that perspective, sounds like no spacer at all will be necessary as that is easily within the capabilities of the caliper to deal with that tiny offset.
This is good news :)

I had another read of your rake/trail/offset page and I'm just getting my head around it now. Hayabusa forks will give us a dimension from top of fork cap, to centre line of axle, 50mm shorter than original. That is with measuring the stock fork length from the top of the triple clamp, not the entire fork length, as 40mm or so sticks through the top triple. I don't know if that is the case on the later bikes?

With the shorter offset and the resulting longer trail, it could very well be in the ball park! I noticed the TLS forks are 7mm longer than the Busa items, this probably would be the way to go on a T3.

If the front end still ends up a bit on the short side, there is the opportunity to flip the eccentrics on the rear wheel and lower the back end to suit. I wouldn't necessarily like this option as I think it can cause some chain rubbing issues but it is an option at least. Hopefully, it wouldn't come to that.
Of course, extending the fork is a possibility which I would prefer to lowering the rear.

Now I'll be chasing a TLS package I think. Not gold like I envisaged but I have polished rims so maybe polished fork legs would look the business :D

Thanks DEcosse for spending some time over here in carbyland and thanks to Gumballer for starting this thread, lets keep it going, we should have an USD conversion sorted in no time!

Cheers,

Roden
 
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