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Discussion Starter #21
Brilliant set of replies. Thanks to all. Only just caught up with them, and K, as I am just off to the local theater myself, I will have to look closely tomorrow morning (Sunday)
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Hi Phil,


(y) A model that's interested me.

Meriden built 265 of 'em, the first bikes of the '73 model year (apart from the first three TR5T's assembled 'off-line'). I've long thought it was unlikely they were all for SA police; I discovered only last year they were actually sent all over the world although, oddly, apparently none to the US and none stayed in GB? :unsure: However, the definitive answer at least to that is probably in the Meriden dispatch books for the period in the VMCC library; absent anyone else sooner, it's somewhere on my to-do list ... :whistle:


Mmmm ... from Don's posts, imho the '69 cases probably aren't what you want; they could be made to work to make a runner but, by definition, the changes necessary would simply turn the bike into a bitsa. Also, '69 cases have some features that make them unique - first year of Unified threadforms, last year of timed breather, etc. - so it might be a pity to deny 'em to someone trying to restore a '69 650?

Where an unstamped set of '69 cases might be useful is if you then go on to look for a bitsa with '69 cycle parts but that's been rebuilt with OIF cases? Rebuild the '69 engine in the correct cases (flog it?) and you have your spare set of OIF cases?


:cool: That's because none of 'em are BSA part numbers ... apart from the "BSA" tank badges and the alternator rotor cover with "BSA" cast in, the bikes are entirely Triumph - mostly OIF TR6, plus some other Triumph bits.

So, when looking for a picture of a part, most can be found in the '72 650 parts book. Nevertheless:-

. The rear lamp and mudguard are standard '73-on (so they can be found in the '73 750 parts book).

. Fork yokes and stanchions are '71/'72 OIF, speedo. 'n' tacho. 'n' brackets are '71-'78 so all in the '72 650 book. Otoh, fork shrouds (covering the stanchions between the yokes), headlamp shell and mounting bits are '73-'78 OIF, so in the '73 750 book (you know OIF shrouds are about 1/4" shorter than 'dry-frame' - '71-'74 T100 and '73/'74 T150?).

. Front brake is the same as fitted to '69-'74 T100R apart from any black-painted centre, same as fitted to '69/'70 triples, 650's and T100T, so in the '73 T100 book. Only the part to anchor that brake to the TS slider is both T65-peculiar and 'Oz-peculiar'.

. The sliders and spindle caps are T65-peculiar/'Oz-peculiar'. The sliders are basically '71/'72 conical (for the brake anchor on the TS slider) but the pre-conical brake's spindle is slightly larger than the ends of the conical spindle, so the spindle cutaway in each slider is larger than in standard conical sliders.

. Spindle caps are basically disc-brake. Reason I say "basically" here is, while disc-brake caps' spindle cutaways are the correct size, disc-brake securing stud holes' spacing is slightly different from conical slider studs' spacing. Reason they modified disc-brake spindle caps castings is the rear 'hoop' of the mudguard mounting ... :D

. Like the front brake, mudguard and mounting 'hoops' themselves are the same as the '73 T100 - although they look the same as '73/'74 disc-brake bits, disc-brake sliders are nearly an inch further apart than drum-brake (conical and pre-conical) sliders. Contemporary T100 was still using pre-conical forks (along with the brake) so the 'hoops' are the same. The ends of the front and middle hoops are then secured to the T65 (and early '73 TR6) sliders with same 97-4446 bracket as used on the 'non-disc' side of the disc-brake forks. (y)

. Btw, reasons I used the term "Oz-peculiar" and mention "early '73 TR6" above are, after the T65's, Meriden built a small batch of T120's, a small batch of T140's and then 122 TR6's, most of which also went to Oz and had the same front end as the T65's. However, some of these TR6's remained in GB and were fitted with standard conical front end, including sliders and brake but still with the mudguard, mounting and spindle caps detailed above.

You can also find pictures of parts online - simply enter "triumph " plus the part number (or "lucas " plus the part number appropriately) into your preferred internet search engine and either look at the returned images or follow the returned links. However, be aware that Meriden made mistakes with part numbers and some people who've posted images online can be pretty stupid - e.g. when checking that 97-4446 number, images of several different parts came up, including the slider-'hoops' mounting bracket used on the 'disc' side ... :rolleyes: (which has a different part number ...). Nevertheless, on balance, it's a useful facility.

Reason for 265 T65's is difficult to fathom? If SA police took 40, why another 225? :unsure: All the Meriden production history I know says bikes were built in batches to orders collected by the sales department? However, given where the T65's went and in what numbers, it looks more like a speculative build; perhaps it was to see if a Triumph badge-engineered as a BSA would still sell? Bert Hopwood - as MD of the BSA Motorcycle Division - must've been deeply involved; however, his Whatever Happened To The British Motorcycle Industry doesn't mention anything and he passed before the T65's existence was widely-known. :(

Hth.

Regards,
1. I advertised for a T65 for almost a year, knowing they were here but assuming there were many more that were actually ordered by the South Aus police. The only success I had (responses) were from three people who had them. One said he built up a bike from frame and cases, which was almost finished, at fifteen thousand dollars. One was a bike bought new from a dealer, by the uncle of the current owner and passed to his brother, the current owner's father. This one had (2) conicals, not pre-conicals. My bike also has conicals. How that came about needs looking into.
I have read of other bikes delivered direct to dealers in Queensland and Victoria for sale, and anecdotally, these bikes were mostly "converted" to Triumphs. How extensive the "conversion" was, I have no idea. This info, if correct, seems to indicate that there were two versions of the bike, but nneds at least one more source to confirm.
The example(s) of the bikes that turned up in Spain, which you can see on the net, seem to bikes that were sold as police bikes, with the pre conical front brake. I know nothing of the bikes that reputably went to the Saudis, or maybe Jordan.
2 Reason for 265 may possibly have been that that was the total of BSAs (police and non-police) they were short.
I'll keep looking.
 

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Hi Phil.

Thanks for the extra information. (y)

One was a bike bought new from a dealer,
This one had (2) conicals, not pre-conicals. My bike also has conicals. How that came about needs looking into.
Mmmm ... speculating, possibly because the other one (and yours?) was (were) new from a dealer, rather than ex-police bikes? The pre-conical front looked a bit weird and possibly some dealers thought so too? Fwiw, I found pictures of the early '73 TR6's in GB with the front conical and assumed for a while the entire batch had them. But I was assured by a guy in Oz who had dealings with 'em (the TR6's) new as NSW police bikes that certainly the Oz ones had the pre-conical front. The other thing I wondered for a while was whether it was an ADR thing - the front conical had failed and Triumph had to cobble this up to get the bikes into Oz - but apparently you didn't have ADR 'til later?

Reason for 265 may possibly have been that that was the total of BSAs (police and non-police) they were short.
It's a thought, but then you wonder why they didn't just build more A65's? I know the last A75's were built in April 1972 but Small Heath essentially carried on building the same engines and most cycle parts for the Hurricane, engines had the BSA "V75V" model code, although the bikes went out as Triumphs. Also, another thread currently on BritBike has a post from someone with a B50 date-coded as April '73 ...

Mmmm ... more questions than answers and the more you find out, the less you know ... :)

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I gained some of my knowledge from the historian looking after Police bikes in South Austarlia (that was the order for Aus). The SA Police actually specified the earlier front brake as a preference over the conical. The Spanish Police may well have accepted the same. I have a friend in Brisbane who has researched some of this stuff and in particular, the guy at the BSA factory who put together orders for cops! I'll see what he has to offer on the subject. Amazing that in a generation or two the facts are lost to us.
 
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