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Discussion Starter #1
Wondering if there are any hole pattern templates out there for vintage Tri fenders. Or even a site with decent reference photos that others have used. I have a repro rear fender with a few too many holes. Bike had the wrong tail light housing and i suspect incorrect wire routing holes. Just not sure what was stock to my 68 tr6c.
 

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well I don't know of templates but I'm in your general area. If interested send me a pm maybe you can take some measurements off my fenders (1970). Also there is a Swap Meet in Woodstock on the 28th.


If you are far North there is always Morrie's Place


K
 

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Hi,

68 tr6c.
have a repro rear fender with a few too many holes.
Wondering if there are any hole pattern templates out there for vintage Tri fenders.
Afaik, no.

However, it should be relatively easy to ascertain 'correct' holes:-

. Start with the one at the front? Chances are dpo didn't put extra holes here and the hole's for a 5/16" OD bolt so larger than many of the others.

. Then two similar-size holes for 5/16" OD bolts should be one just in front of and the other just behind the middle of the rear frame loop; the bolts pass through the holes in the "Clip" that hooks over the frame tube and the flat "Backing plate" that's fitted on the inside of the fender.

. There should be a third similar-sized hole just to the right (looking towards the front of the bike) of the aforementioned bolt-hole just behind the frame tube. This hole isn't shown in the parts book picture but has a grommet as it's where the rear lamp wires come from the underside of the fender; why this hole wasn't inside the frame loop under the seat is one of life's great mysteries ... :confused:

. With the fender located on its front mounting and its rear frame mounting, you should see the two holes that line up with what Triumph called the "Fender bridge", between the top shock. mountings. The parts book alleges the "bridge"-to-fender bolts are 1/4" OD but ime you might well find they're actually 5/16" OD. :whistle Risking telling you something you know already, the "bridge" isn't symmetrical either side of its highest point - it's longer to the drive-side shock. mount than it is to the timing-side.

. The two rear "Lifting handle" tabs bolt to the fender with 1/4" OD bolts. Here risking stating the obvious, the "Lifting handle" shock. mounting bolts holes are slotted, so the "handle" can be moved backwards and forwards a little to align the rear tab holes with corresponding holes in the fender.

. With the "Lifting handle" in place, the standard rear lamp ally casting front 1/4" OD stud fits through a corresponding hole just below the middle of the "handle"; the casting should have a cutaway in the top of the front edge so it can tuck under the "handle" and over the heads of the bolts through the "handle" and the fender. According to http://stainlessbits.com/link12.html, those bolts were roundhead, but my T150 has the same casting and normal hex.-head bolts.

. Directly below/behind the hole for the stud is another (~5/16" ID?) hole, that's normally covered by the rear lamp ally casting; this is another hole that should have a grommet as the rear lamp wires pass through it to the underside of the fender.

. Nearing the rear/bottom of the fender, you might find two or four holes for 1/4" OD bolts:-

.. two of the holes should line up with the holes in the lower edge of the "Tail lamp plate";

.. these two holes would also line up with holes in the "Number plate bracket" shown in the parts book (although note the bracket is drawn upside-down ... :Not again).

Problem with just the one bracket mounting the "Number plate"/licence plate by just the plate's top edge is these old parallel twins were apt to vibrate a bit, :whistle the plate vibrated and some eventually cracked just below the bracket. So, later, Triumph added another "Number plate bracket" - 83-4784.

Original fenders have two vertically-slotted 1/4"-wide holes to mount the lower "Number plate bracket" where it'd bolt to the bottom edge of a US licence plate (your repro fender might have just ~1/4" ID holes?). If you don't have both brackets, but fancy adding the second one, first look at on-line images of both to determine which one you have - the trade is completely confused about which part number applies to which bracket - Googling first "triumph 82-6850" and then "triumph 83-4784" return images of both brackets under both part numbers. :bluduh

Finally, not shown for '68 but fitted and shown in the parts books '69-'73 is F7826 "Wiring protector". It attaches to the rear lamp ally casting stud and one of the fender mounting bolts behind/in front of the rear frame loop; protects the rear lamp wiring under the fender. :thumb

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Since your guard is no doubt a re pop, before you start drilling anything wrap it in masking tape and push it into the space it is supposed to fit with all the mounts in place on the frame. There should be a depression either side to line up with the shock bolts, with these lined up the front edge should sit against it's mount and high enough above the swing arm to allow movement. I had to remove 3/4 inch from mine to get this bit right. Push the guard up into the fender brace to check the radius fits. You may find you have to add spacers under the rear frame loop, this is preferable to fitting under tension and having your new guard crack.

Now you know it is the right length, remove it. Measure up and draw a centre line over the guard, and find the centre of the rear frame loop and mark it. Make sure you have your oil tank and chain guard fitted and suitably protected.

Now you can offer up the guard and clamp it to the brace lining up the shock bolt depressions, leave the brace loose enough to allow a little swing and push the guard against the front mount. With your centre line visible through the mounts hole and lined up with you frame loop mark clamp the guard at the front and check for clearance.

More later if required, need to go to work.

Rod
 

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Hi again,

If following Rod's advice to start with lining up the depressions in the sides with the shock. mounting bolts, a tip I read years ago on BritBike was to secure the fender to the rear frame tube with a bungee pulled very tight and wrapped around several times - you'll still be able to swivel/slide the fender around on the frame tube but the bungee'll hold the weight of it.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Then two similar-size holes for 5/16" OD bolts should be one just in front of and the other just behind the middle of the rear frame loop; the bolts pass through the holes in the "Clip" that hooks over the frame tube and the flat "Backing plate" that's fitted on the inside of the fender.

. There should be a third similar-sized hole just to the right (looking towards the front of the bike) of the aforementioned bolt-hole just behind the frame tube. This hole isn't shown in the parts book picture but has a grommet as it's where the rear lamp wires come from the underside of the fender; why this hole wasn't inside the frame loop under the seat is one of life's great mysteries ... :confused:

. With the fender located on its front mounting and its rear frame mounting, you should see the two holes that line up with what Triumph called the "Fender bridge", between the top shock. mountings. The parts book alleges the "bridge"-to-fender bolts are 1/4" OD but ime you might well find they're actually 5/16" OD. :whistle Risking telling you something you know already, the "bridge" isn't symmetrical either side of its highest point - it's longer to the drive-side shock. mount than it is to the timing-side.

. The two rear "Lifting handle" tabs bolt to the fender with 1/4" OD bolts. Here risking stating the obvious, the "Lifting handle" shock. mounting bolts holes are slotted, so the "handle" can be moved backwards and forwards a little to align the rear tab holes with corresponding holes in the fender.

. With the "Lifting handle" in place, the standard rear lamp ally casting front 1/4" OD stud fits through a corresponding hole just below the middle of the "handle"; the casting should have a cutaway in the top of the front edge so it can tuck under the "handle" and over the heads of the bolts through the "handle" and the fender. According to http://stainlessbits.com/link12.html, those bolts were roundhead, but my T150 has the same casting and normal hex.-head bolts.

. Directly below/behind the hole for the stud is another (~5/16" ID?) hole, that's normally covered by the rear lamp ally casting; this is another hole that should have a grommet as the rear lamp wires pass through it to the underside of the fender.

. Nearing the rear/bottom of the fender, you might find two or four holes for 1/4" OD bolts:-

.. two of the holes should line up with the holes in the lower edge of the "Tail lamp plate";
Wow! This is the exact info I was looking for. I have a 500 fender which I thought would line up as a perfect replacement for the excessively drilled 650 rear fender. Does not. Just a bit short in length and hole location. With this posted info I know what to look for. BTW, the 500 fender had the underside wire protector so I lucked out on that. Assuming the 500 protector fits the 650 fender.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Red, excellent tip. This is a re-pop fender but previous owner drilled to his hearts content. Will need to install a couple of grommet/plugs and probably drill a few of my own holes until I can find a reasonably priced re-pop of my own.
 

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Hi,

have a 500 fender which I thought would line up as a perfect replacement for the excessively drilled 650 rear fender. Does not. Just a bit short in length and hole location.
:hmmmmm Curious, they should be (basically) the same - when Triumph changed the 350/500 frame '67-on, one change was it'd use the same rear frame and bits as the 650's; similarly, triple frames are basically the same as dry-frame 650's.

Risking telling you something you know already, you know original rear fenders aren't perfect semi-circles? They have a slight bend about under the rear frame loop; is it possible your 500 fender has been bent more, would fit with some judiciously-applied ... persuasion?

500 fender had the underside wire protector so I lucked out on that. Assuming the 500 protector fits the 650 fender.
Same part; :thumb as I say, fenders should be basically the same.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Forum has me thinking. Thanks for that. I refitted the 500 fender and it's still short however ONLY at the grabrail fender mounting holes. It's about 3/16 short. A decent amount of persuasion did not shorten the distance. Wonder if I have the wrong grabrail.
Brief search shows 2 items: 82-5424 for pre 67 and 82-7860 for post 67. I'm working on 68 so I wonder if I have earlier model component.
 

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The earlier grab rail is wider on the drive side to accept the earlier J type hinges. The later version is the same both sides.

Rod
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Thanks Rod. Very helpful. This bike came with the earlier style J hinges. Think I found my problem. Now I need to source a later model grab rail and correct seat hinges--if anyone has either laying around. Are the frame posts the same for both style hinges?
 

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I can't say for definite if the hinge pins are in the same place, however there are a couple of ways to ID the year of the rear frame section.

Previous too 66 the cross straps for the battery tray were bolted both sides, from 66 the drive side used two rubber bush's mounted onto two pins welded to the top loop. 66 saw a plastic tool tray added under the seat, this was mounted to two flat tabs welded to the inside centre of the rear frame top loop just behind the battery. These were retained for 67 but moved downwards and welded to the underside of the loop for more clearance. They were removed for the 68 season when the removable side cover was added, this required a bracket in the top drive side corner for the captive nut to be added along with two pins on the drive side down tube for the side cover to mount to.

Rod
 

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Thanks Rod. Very helpful. This bike came with the earlier style J hinges. Think I found my problem. Now I need to source a later model grab rail and correct seat hinges--if anyone has either laying around. Are the frame posts the same for both style hinges?
most vendors sell those parts, but be warned that the seat hinges will need massaging before the rubber bungs sit properly on the loop.
 

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Hi,

later model grab rail
You might want to check this'll actually solve the problem? The '70-on grabrail I've measured is ~15-1/2" from the centre of a shock. mounting slot to the centre of the fender mounting tab slot on the same side, with the slots giving ~+/-1/4". With Rod posting that '68-on "is the same both sides", it's peculiar to '68 and '69 only; '70-on,Triumph added the passenger grab 'hoop' behind the seat.

Just as a matter of interest, are there any original colours on the 500 fender?

correct seat hinges

be warned that the seat hinges will need massaging before the rubber bungs sit properly on the loop.
:nod Although ime they're absolute crap and have been for nearly two decades! :bluduh I remember trying to get a new pair to work on my T150 back in the early naughties; luckily, I had the T160's to compare with; in the end, I bought a second-hand pair off Fleabay, but good luck sorting through all the dross offered there these days ...

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Thanks Rod. Very helpful. This bike came with the earlier style J hinges. Think I found my problem. Now I need to source a later model grab rail and correct seat hinges--if anyone has either laying around. Are the frame posts the same for both style hinges?
Gonna give you some bits of info.

Take the seat off your T160 hinges on a 68 TR6C and t160 are the same.Suggest if you have "J" hinges you have earlier seat & possibly earlier rear Frame section

Lifting Handles 68-70 650's/ 68-74 500 twins are interchangeable even though they are not the same part number and do not look the same.

Rear Fenders 68-70 500 are the same as the 68 650 is the same.
. 69/70 rear fender part numbers change due to holes being drilled for crankcase vent hose
As far as I know there was one wiring harness protector (82-7826) used between 68 and 70 on 650 / 68 - 74 500 and 750 3cyl.

way past my bedtime

K
 

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Discussion Starter #16
T160 hinges fit perfect on seat and rear frame. Thanks for that. Also Stuart I'm at 15.5 on stated distance. Rear fender is unpainted stainless. Rear frame cks out for correct 68--bush/pin battery box rails and the tab for the removeable side cover. My grab rail is clealry the wider drive side variant so I might just find a year correct replacement and see how it fits.
 

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Hi,

Rear frame cks out for correct 68--bush/pin battery box rails and the tab for the removeable side cover.
T160 hinges fit perfect on seat and rear frame.
:thumb Excellent.

grab rail is clealry the wider drive side variant so I might just find a year correct replacement and see how it fits.
:nod

I'm at 15.5 on stated distance. Rear fender is unpainted stainless.
If it was a off a 500, T100C; however, the same fender was also fitted to the TR6C.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Lifting handle/grab rail you want is part # 82-7860. It was used on 68/69 500's and 650's. The measurements width, length, etc. would be the same on a handle from a 70 650, 70 thru 74 500 & 68 thru 70 750 3cyl with US Beauty kit.


I also believe the measurements from the one on your T160 are the same as the one you want.


K
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Wow. I'll have to try the T160 grabrail just for curiosity sake. T160 was torn down after a flood so in pieces at moment. Have been sidetracked on other projects for a few years. Good to look at it again. Got to get that thing together. Nothing sounds like a Trident.
 

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Hi,

I'll have to try the T160 grabrail just for curiosity sake.
Lifting handle/grab rail you want is part # 82-7860. It was used on 68/69 500's and 650's. The measurements width, length, etc. would be the same on ...
... then, in reality, they're the same on anything '68-on:-

. Lifting handle with another hoop behind the seat was first supplied with the T150 'beauty kit' in 1969. Thereafter, all dry-frame models used the same Lifting handle in each year. There appear to have been three versions in '69/'70 (all chrome, no holes in triangular gussets; black-'n'-chrome, 7/16" hole in each gusset; all chrome, 7/16" hole in each gusset), '71/'72 had a smaller hole in each gusset (for mounting reflectors), '73-T160 reverted to the last '70 version.

. '71-'78 oif have the same horizontal hoop, just the hoop behind the seat is attached about an inch further forward, it's taller and closer to vertical. '71/'72 and '73-on holes in gussets are the same as dry-frame.

T160
Got to get that thing together. Nothing sounds like a Trident.
So why are you faffing around with some old boneshaker twin? :D

Hth.

Regards,
 
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