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Discussion Starter #1
Since I am now saving money on what I will be doing on the 1970 T120R (going to just keep the original harness and keeping the original rotor/alternator/regulator/zenor) I am now looking at the oil filter kit that The Bonneville Shop and Baxter sells (VERY pricey but...). Made in U.K. I looked at the one MAP sells and it seems identical with the exception of how it mounts. The MAP one is much cheaper, but is Out Of Stock. A number of things I have been looking appear to be out of stock. Got to blame COVID-19 shutdowns for this I guess.

My question is has anyone run this U.K. made oil filter? I assume the bracket clamps around the rear downtube? doesn't appear (to me) that there is room to attach it between the battery box and frame, but would fit between the two carbs? Or is there another oil filter I should look at?

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Also, another question. How in the heck do people wear masks and able to do anything? I find it hard to get around with the mask on....

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I am sure either one of the kits will work equally well. The one you show appears to be a bit more substantial (note the threaded fittings). If you don't need it right now and the Map Cycle on will work for you hold off buying and maybe they will be restocked.

Regarding the mask. First you have it on upside down. Second wearing it a bit high will make a bit hard to see. Who showed you how to wear that a relative of Pvt Snafu (he was a guy my father served with in WWII. Snafu went into propaganda my father went OSS) Drop it down turn it over and they are easier to live with. I really hate those 3 ply masks. Wife made us some cloth ones and they are easier to live with. (She has a JACK DANIELS one on order.)
I have heard it said wearing one while you a driving a car is like wearing a condom while watching porno.

Have a good day

K 馃樂
 

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Yes I have one of those filters fitted and so does Stuart. I鈥檝e attached pics of where it fits on my T100, I鈥檓 not certain if it鈥檚 the same location for the 650, it could be. I like it, mounted upright means I can change the filter with minimal spillage and it鈥檚 a worthwhile improvement over the stock 鈥榝iltration鈥.
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Hi Senior,

Holy Crap, how much!
Be aware the kit listed by TBS is this one. At the time of writing, 拢114 (GB pounds) is ~$140; you'd have to decide if TBS's premium covers GB-to-US carriage and possible US customs duty? But Andy is out of stock at present, :( although he posted recently he's working, so you could e-mail to ask when he's likely to have it back in stock?

Fwiw, my T100 has the filter pretty-much where Chris has fitted his, my T100's is just a little lower and further rearward. I found Andy's kit to be pretty-much bolt-on - a real rarity in this day and age - just some fiddling with position and hose routing. IIrc, the only problem Chris experienced was Andy originally supplied him the ally clamp for a 650, which allows for a slightly larger frame tube.

Hth.

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Hi All, What if you put MAP type filter behind seat post tube where the spin on filter is? Cover plug end down. Would be invisible from outside, plus super easy to change filter. Just put pan under it & remove cover.

The MAP and Tricor Andy filter kits are not cheap. However, they are worth the price & have value. Not saying to use it, but if it proves to meet your needs, certainly worth the cost.

Also Tricor Andy will sell his filter with 2) 90deg fittings upon request. Or 2) straight.

I have a fair amount of experience with the Norton type spin-on. Depending on year the "tit" at bottom frame casting (is that for side car mount?) gets in the way. You'd like to have filter closer to seat post tube for center stand clearance. But tit is in way. So you have to move filter higher. Now very hard to access swing arm grease fitting. Removing the tit would be ideal mounting, but that's modifying frame, which we may not want to do. 1/4" lower would make grease fitting access easy, but filter hit stand. Again depends on year & shape of center stand.

Also if you have low exhaust there is cross bracket between muffler clamps. I feel this is important. Without question reduces vibration of mufflers & seems to reduce cracking around muffler inlet pipe. This bracket can foul filter. I make a "dog leg" bracket that goes around filter, yet also clears center stand.

At twice the price the MAP filter IF... was able to fit behind tube, especially offset to clear grease fitting & tit, center stand & exhaust bracket, would be ideal. You'd soon forget about the price as it would work good & simplify installation. Remember it comes with the bracket, so you don't need to make one.

The filters are all about the same cost, aprox. $11 ish. The MAP must be bought at bike parts seller. The Norton spin-on is odd ball special order from a few auto part stores that can order it, or get it from bike parts sellers. So that's a wash. So far as I can tell they do the exact same good job of cleaning oil & both have bypass should filter clog or cold oil be too thick to pass freely.

The amount of paper filter medium is very similar in both also.

If I had dry frame I go with MAP or Tricor Andy.

Note: Buying from UK is super easy from USA. Fast shipping. Payment no issues especially with paypal. They do money exchange & all that for you. Pretty much no duties on imports private sales to individuals with these relatively small amounts from UK, Canada, China. That has been my experience. I believe "informal entry" of merchandise mail ordered from UK duty free is currently $2500.00US.
Don
 

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Hello Don, I think if you look at the picture I posted you will see I have covered all your concerns with reference to mounting a spin on filter to the dry frame bikes. I have more than ample clearance between the filter and the tit along with plenty of room for a right angle grease nipple. The filter also remains high enough that I do not have to dog leg the exhaust strap. I believe the filter is for a Hardly Ableton so should be easy to find and cheap enough. Above all, it's simple.

Rod
 

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Hi Don,

MAP type filter behind seat post tube where the spin on filter is? Cover plug end down. Would be invisible from outside, plus super easy to change filter.
Mmmm ...

With Tricor Andy's filter holder installed as Chris and I have it (and used to be in a picture on the Tricor website), the filter element isn't difficult to change; I can't speak for Chris but all I do is loosen the top cap, remove the sidepanel, undo the clamp's two Allen screws, tip the filter away from the bike into the drain-can. While not all other triple owners do, I've always followed the factory advice to soak a new filter element in fresh oil and put some in the filter compartment - I fit the new element (which almost inevitably drips a bit of oil) while the holder is over the drain-can, move it back vertical and clamp it back on the frame, top up the compartment 'til the level stops rising, refit the cap, refit the sidepanel.

With Tricor Andy's filter holder installed as Chris and I have it, the filter's invisible 'til the sidepanel's removed; only thing I don't know is whether the standard dry-frame 650 has the same free space in front of the battery as the 500?

With the Tricor/MAP filter installed as Chris and I have it, the filter holder fills from the bottom 'til the oil level reaches the outlet two-thirds-ish up the holder. Fitted upside-down, the compartment outlet would only be about one-third up from the cap; bear in mind even on Tricor's OIF installation, the filter is only horizontal, with the outlet from the top of the filter compartment.

In either of Tricor's 'recommended' installations, there isn't any pressure on the cap/end. Notwithstanding pressure's minimal in the return from engine to tank, upside-down both filter element and oil return would rely entirely on the cap being in place; certainly Tricor holder caps have a coarse thread. :( It would also be messy to fit a new element oil-soaked. :(

filters
MAP must be bought at bike parts seller.
"MAP" filter element is standard triple, fitted to all Tridents, Hurricanes and BSA Rocket 3's; should be available from any decent Triumph parts retailer either in person or online. There are a number of makers, including the original BSA/Triumph supplier (CAW) and the inevitable Emgo; there's also a stainless steel washable reusable element from an Oz triple expert.

Hth.

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I can't speak for Chris but all I do is loosen the top cap, remove the sidepanel, undo the clamp's two Allen screws, tip the filter away from the bike into the drain-can
Mine's fitted in a slightly different position, they only place I could fit it without anything fouling. It does mean I can just unscrew the top cap and replace the filter without disturbing the filter housing. I don't bother to drain the housing from its feed pipe, the small amount of 'dirty' oil left in will go straight through the filter on start up. I also soak the new filter and top up the housing before screwing the cap back on.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I am sure either one of the kits will work equally well. The one you show appears to be a bit more substantial (note the threaded fittings). If you don't need it right now and the Map Cycle on will work for you hold off buying and maybe they will be restocked.

Regarding the mask. First you have it on upside down. Second wearing it a bit high will make a bit hard to see. Who showed you how to wear that a relative of Pvt Snafu (he was a guy my father served with in WWII. Snafu went into propaganda my father went OSS) Drop it down turn it over and they are easier to live with. I really hate those 3 ply masks. Wife made us some cloth ones and they are easier to live with. (She has a JACK DANIELS one on order.)
I have heard it said wearing one while you a driving a car is like wearing a condom while watching porno.

Have a good day

K 馃樂

LOL. The picture of me wearing the mask covering my eyes that way is a joke about being a senior citizen and confused on how to wear a mask.;)

I agree, the price is much more "substantial" however, it is the only one I can find "in stock". But, there is no rush to get a filter at this point. Just wanted opinions on it.

Thanks as alway K!

Best Regards,

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for everyone's replies on this. I am now wondering if the TRICOR ANDY/TBS/BAXTER oil filter will fit on my 1970 due to the primary vent line (see pictures). What I would like is to know the length of the bracket that mounts to the frame and oil filter. The diameter of the oil filter and the length of it (I did not see any of this information posted). The MAP one does not use a bracket mount but a hose clamp that would probably give me more room for the filter between the side cover/frame/battery box, etc...dunno.

I like the tube oil filter, but need to ensure there is room to mount it (squeeze it in). If not, Redmoggy's and Don's filter mount might be how I will have to do it. My concern was the swing arm grease fitting and the muffler clamp bracket interference, but they say they can get it to work.

As I told Kadutz there is no hurry to buy an oil filter at this time, but with COVID-19 I should maybe get one while I can as who knows how long businesses will not be able to get parts/tools &c.

I included a picture of the bike with my 2018 Corvette which was also (besides the bike) my "retirement gift". Much better than a gold watch....:D although my wife didn't agree...but, heck, after over 50-years of working should get something out of it...LOL.

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Hi RMCss, Wow nice set!! T120 was the Corvette of motorcycles. You be the man!!

What if you emailed MAP for dimensions? That would give good starting point.

In both cycle & automotive world, filters are installed at every angle. So that's not a problem. Pre filling filter is nice, but in real life it will fill in about 20 seconds additional seconds, if you installed dry. If you prefilled motor sump through DTC hole would send on to rockers in about 20 seconds. Normally if you drain motor sump, don't add oil, it takes about 30-50 seconds to get oil return to tank.

I drain oil motor warm, so rockers have recently had oil to them. Takes about 30-40 min to clean both screens, drain primary, fill tank or frame, primary. I never put oil in motor sump unless doing overhaul. I just start motor & let sump fill, then return on it's own. I've cleaned sump screen on every bike I've changed oil on. I've covered 34k miles from new on my bike doing this without issues on my '73 Tiger. I covered 30k miles doing this on my '70 TR6C. It doesn't seem to cause problems for either.

Cost is not an object for you, so get the one that will be easiest to service.

Codeman in this group put spin-on on his '70 Bonnie. Cleared stand fine. That was not the case on '69 Bonnie. Both needed the dog leg bracket made for exhaust cross strap.

I'll tell you this, the spin-on is super easy to change. Just get the tin filter "wrench" that slips over filter with 3/85 drive. Clean area around filter, remove filter & drop into pan. Prefill filter, oil seal, tighten it up. Simple!

Be advised all the Norton bases have 3/8 steel tube, even though they may claim 5/16. No matter 5/16 hose will slip over & work fine. Use Gates auto trans cooler hose, or Gates fuel injection hose for oil hose. Both have higher thread count in rubber & resist kinking much better than Gates carb/evap hose. Gates hose available behind counter at many auto parts stores in USA. Don't use worm clamps. Use the circle clamp with machine screw than replicates factory clamps.

Clean area around filter, unscrew it & drop into pan. Pre fill new filter, put oil on seal & screw it on. I've never heard of one of these filters unscrewing from vibration. There is a sheet metal bracket available that uses large hose clap that makes it impossible to vibrate loose if you're worried. Norton used one.

Should you choose spin-on this filter is sold through NAPA auto stores special order. It fits perfectly. The Norton filter thread is an unusual size, which makes the filters harder to come by. Code man uses the Napa filter. Notice it's a Mann filter reboxed. So now you have more options cross referencing the Mann #. At the same time you can purchase a "Thread conversion kit" for Norton base to fit the common modern spin-oh filters. But why do that? Just get the Napa one or buy from Triumph parts sellers. Some spin on will fit threads, but are too fat.

Look at how nice Redmoggy's filter fits. He says 90 deg grease fitting clears. He doesn't speak of cross over bracket directly, but that's no big deal. Suggests Harley Davidson filter fits. That's great if so. Very easy to find.

Again all the filters do same good job, so that's not part of decision.
Don
 

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Don, it's a tart of a place to take a picture so excuse the quality but plenty of room for grease nipple ( Obscured slightly by a reflection ).

One day I will fix the split in the rear guard!
Currently the head is off the bike so no pic of the cross over strap but since the filter is higher than the bottom of the seat tube I do not foresee any issues. Like yourself I think this bracket is actually quite important. I normally have a pair of 5/16 nuts with the thread drilled out fitted to the exhaust clamp bolts followed by a flat washer, bracket, flat washer and then a locknut. I find it's easier that way to fit the bracket and level the clamps so the bracket is not under tension.

The filter is a Ryco RMZ114 which is a cross over from an Emgo filter 10-07700. It apparently replaces HD part numbers 63782-80, 63810-80A and has the same Norton thread. I wander if this is the same as the Mann filter on your friends 69 or if he has the longer Norton version?

I also have a habit of riding unsealed gravel roads and used to fit a stubby holder over the filter to protect it from the odd stray stone!

Rod
 

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Hi Senior,

wondering if the TRICOR ANDY/TBS/BAXTER oil filter will fit on my 1970 due to the primary vent
@Rusty1 Chris should be able to confirm, his T100 is a '72 and all '70-on twins had the same primary vent piping.

would like is to know the length of the bracket that mounts to the frame and oil filter. The diameter of the oil filter and the length of it
Oil filter 1-7/16" OD, length of my T100's is 9" including cap and straight end spigot; fwiw, bear in mind spigots (and nuts) are standard petrol tap ones so 45- and 90-degree ones are easily-available.

Harder to be precise about the bracket length without dismantling - approximately 4"? - you can check it with your bike's frame tube OD, add oil filter OD, add 3/8" separation, add 5/16" bracket thickness around frame tube and oil filter.

MAP one does not use a bracket mount but a hose clamp that would probably give me more room for the filter between the side cover/frame/battery box, etc.
I'd be surprised if you have to worry. '70 T120 uses the same sidepanel as my T100 but mine has the same sidepanel as Chris's '72 T100 - the only difference is the clip that stops vibration undoing the securing screw. (y)

like the tube oil filter, but need to ensure there is room to mount it (squeeze it in).
no hurry to buy an oil filter at this time, but with COVID-19 I should maybe get one while I can as who knows how long businesses will not be able to get parts/tools &c.
Concern understandable; fwiw, in a recent post to another thread, Andy posted his company had been working through the lockdown, and that's pretty-much been lifted in England where he is; only problem perhaps if his oil filter kit includes special parts he buys in? As for fitting, he does label the kit "Pre OIF" (as opposed to "T100"?), although you could e-mail him for any specific '70 T120-related wrinkles?

Hth.

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LOL. The picture of me wearing the mask covering my eyes that way is a joke about being a senior citizen and confused on how to wear a mask.;)

Senior
I figured you were joking and my comments were to be taken tongue in mask. 馃檭

Very nice close up pictures shows many original details the metal clip retaining the harness, the rubber clip at the vent hose retaining the alternator lead, the bolt retaining the front to rear frame sections, direction it goes into the frame. AND the fact its a bolt not a stud like in the parts manual.

K 馃樂
 

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@Rusty1[/USER] Chris should be able to confirm, his T100 is a '72 and all '70-on twins had the same primary vent piping.
Clearance for the venting pipe is fine but mounting the filter housing high in the bracket made it so. The trade off was that the ribbed section of the housing is then very close to the sub-frame and the battery mounting brackets. When I installed the filter I had clearance everywhere but looking at it tonight there is some rubbing at the top of the filter housing....another job for the list.
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decades ago marino perna recommended oil filters for triumphs. he said if you don't run one, then change the oil every 500 miles.

i ran a filter for a while, and then took it off as too much junk in the oil lines. but i still follow his advice and change the oil frequently. basically, i change it whenever i can't remember the last time i changed it.

that works out to 500 miles or less, with my feeble memory.

just my two cents. i buy a lot of oil, by the way

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I agree with speedrattle. I don't run oil filters on any of my vintage British bikes (and I have a lot of them). They lasted for 40 plus years without filters, so I don't see any reason to change that after rebuilding/restoring them. I change my oil every year (that works out to only a couple hundred miles on each of them) before I put them away for the winter. I think sometimes people over think things. Just my 2 cents worth.
 

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Hi,

I don't run oil filters on any of my vintage British bikes
I change my oil every year (that works out to only a couple hundred miles on each of them)
That's as maybe. However, @RMCS(SS) "Senior" The OP started this thread as a result of specific advice in his 1970 T120R Upgrades thread, about potential upgrades to his T120 for a potential ~6,000-mile return trip across the US.

The engine oil carries particles that cause wear; if the particles aren't filtered out, they continue to cause wear; however, these particles, being measured in microns, are therefore too small to be caught by any filter Triumph fitted as standard to the twins. Are you advising he should change the oil on his bike every "couple hundred miles" to avoid the need for a micropore filter?

The wider reality is: Triumph and BSA triples always had a proper micropore filter - and Triumph and BSA doubled the triples' recommended oil change mileage compared to the twins on exactly the same recommended oils; Triumph and BSA added an external filter to the singles from '71 and one was listed for the aborted '74 T100D ... Although Triumph were well behind other engine makers even by then, given the ease with which a "Charlie's filter" can be fitted to an OIF twin, without the contemporary and subsequent financial and political failures, imho it's highly-likely the OIF would've been factory-fitted with micropore filters from the mid-1970's.

They lasted for 40 plus years without filters,
By and large, no.

The ones we own are some of the miniscule percentage of British motorcycle production that happened to survive the period when they were just cheap transport.

The vast majority did not "last", they were scrapped when the cost of repairs - often simply wear - exceeded their value as cheap transport.

sometimes people over think things
... and, with respect, sometimes people underthink things ...

Hth.

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Discussion Starter #20
Clearance for the venting pipe is fine but mounting the filter housing high in the bracket made it so. The trade off was that the ribbed section of the housing is then very close to the sub-frame and the battery mounting brackets. When I installed the filter I had clearance everywhere but looking at it tonight there is some rubbing at the top of the filter housing....another job for the list.
View attachment 729382
Rusty1,

Thanks! Good picture of it mounted. Much appreciated.

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