Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner
121 - 136 of 136 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #122 ·
Got round to replacing the battery carrier rubber bushes. The old ones were long gone

Automotive tire Snow Font Asphalt Freezing


Motor vehicle Light Automotive tire Automotive exterior Gas


Does replacing a leaking rocker cover gasket entail removing several of the cylinder head bolts?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,353 Posts
Hi Eli,
Fwiw, think I might've worked out your bike's weird "Rear strap" (and battery carrier?) ...

'66, Triumph went from 6V DC to 12V DV electrics. However, while the vast majority of 12V bikes had a single Lucas PUZ5A 12V battery, early '66 12V bikes had two of the earlier MKZ9E 6V batteries connected in series, these two needing a bigger carrier than one PUZ5A.

Regrettably, I can't find a picture of the relevant Rear strap (F7086) to compare with your photos. However, if you enter "triumph 82-8024" into your preferred internet search engine, it should return images of the correct '70 twins' battery carrier. Note particularly the vertical back and front:-

. if one or both on your bike just slope from the bottom to the top, likely it's a PUZ5A carrier that's been mangled to fit; :(

. otoh, if the carrier on your bike looks anything like this:-

... particularly the stepped rear, it's a 'two-MKZ9E' carrier that goes with the Rear strap fitted. (y)

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #125 ·
Hi Eli,

Fwiw, think I might've worked out your bike's weird "Rear strap" (and battery carrier?) ...

'66, Triumph went from 6V DC to 12V DV electrics. However, while the vast majority of 12V bikes had a single Lucas PUZ5A 12V battery, early '66 12V bikes had two of the earlier MKZ9E 6V batteries connected in series, these two needing a bigger carrier than one PUZ5A.

Regrettably, I can't find a picture of the relevant Rear strap (F7086) to compare with your photos. However, if you enter "triumph 82-8024" into your preferred internet search engine, it should return images of the correct '70 twins' battery carrier. Note particularly the vertical back and front:-

. if one or both on your bike just slope from the bottom to the top, likely it's a PUZ5A carrier that's been mangled to fit; :(

. otoh, if the carrier on your bike looks anything like this:-

... particularly the stepped rear, it's a 'two-MKZ9E' carrier that goes with the Rear strap fitted. (y)

Hth.

Regards,
Thanks Stuart

Mine looks like a homemade carrier cut out of old tin! I'll order the correct one shortly thanks to you kindly pointing this out and providing the parts number.

Motor vehicle Electrical wiring Wood Gas Electrical supply
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,353 Posts
Hi Eli,
Mine looks like a homemade carrier cut out of old tin! I'll order the correct one shortly thanks to you kindly pointing this out and providing the parts number.

View attachment 780492
Mmmm ... that it hooks over the two "straps" and those bends are smooth suggests it's original Triumph. However, that its back has been bent to reach the Rear strap and it lacks the horizontal slots in the front and back for the later rubber battery securing strap suggests it was originally intended for the single 12V battery and it's earlier than '70.

For clarity:-

. If you order the correct '70 82-8024 battery carrier, you also need one of the "Rear straps" that's closer to the front one (82-8028, 82-7384 or 82-6894), bolts to the same side of the oil tank rear rubber mounting as the frame bracket.

. If the bike's existing battery is 'PUZ5A width' (3"), be aware the 82-8094 carrier is a close fit front and back - no space for the thick padding in your photos. Triumph did fit thin stick-on foam pads (82-8031 and 83-5014) but Google only finds 'em in the US, not in Europe. :(

So, if you want to carry on protecting the battery with the padding you're using currently, the wider 'two 6V' battery carrier is available - 82-7083 - and it should hang between the existing "straps". Or wait 'til you have to replace the existing battery, replace with a Yuasa NP7 which is only 2-1/2" wide?

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #127 ·
Up to and including '70, you need to take out the 2 long head bolts that mount the head steadies, along with the 2 small rocker box bolts and the 3 nuts underneath.
Thanks Mick. So just torque them back up when refitting, no need to worry about the head distorting?

Next sunny weekend I'm going to give the bike a proper clean and try to get rid of the rust spots

Tire Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive tire Tread


I'm still losing pressure from the front tyre but valve is not the culprit

Automotive tire Wood Terrestrial plant Terrestrial animal Gas


My front brake is still useless despite a new cable and having adjusted it recently so I had another go today. The adjuster is all the way out but its still not great, next step is to remove the wheel and inspect the shoes

Tire Wheel Bicycle Bicycle tire Motor vehicle


And my rear mudguard is cracked 😕

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Hood Automotive lighting


Looks like I've got a bit of spannering to do
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,353 Posts
Hi Eli,
front brake is still useless despite
next step is to remove the wheel and inspect the shoes
Assuming the correct 8" version, should be bloody brilliant on your bike - same brake on the front of my T150 (which goes a lot faster and weighs around 70 lbs. more than your bike); while it isn't as good as a disc, it's still pretty good ... and this is with the front brake switch that's alleged to affect the brake ... :cool:

Educated guess the 'restorer' just bunged-in new shoes, never either arced the shoes to the drum or burnished the brake? :rolleyes:

"arced the shoes to the drum"
When drum brakes were more common, new shoes or linings fitted, it was common (standard?) to assemble the shoes on the brake plate and turn the assembly in a lathe so the linings were concentric with the axle/spindle. Now, many drum-brake assemblers seem to think this happens by magic ...

Check for failure of this magic by: covering the linings with chalk, spinning the brake assembly in the drum for a few turns with the brake applied then re-examining the linings; risking stating the obvious, where the chalk remains on the lining indicates lining that never touched the drum ...

If the linings need turning but a lathe isn't available, more-time-consuming but equally-effective is:-

. Stick sandpaper around the drum, chalk the brake linings again, assemble the brake in the drum, rotate the assembly for a few turns with the brake applied.

. Risking stating the obvious, because of the dust generated, do this wearing a mask and clothes you can wash straight after.

. Remove the brake from the drum and examine the linings - you should see some of the chalk has been removed by the sandpaper.

. Repeat 'til the sandpaper's removed all the chalk from the linings - then "the shoes are arced to the drum". (y) The workshop manual also advises tapering the leading and trailing edges of each lining by an extra 1/2" length and 1/8" maximum depth.

. Clean out the dust from the drum, remove and discard the sandpaper, clean out the adhesive, reassemble the brake, throw away the mask, wash the clothes you were wearing.

"burnished the brake"
Once the shoes are arced to the drum, take the bike to a quiet stretch of straight road on a dry day. No other vehicles around, I've always done ten stops from 50 mph with a minute's cooling between each, followed by half-an-hour's cooling then ten stops from 70 mph with a minute's cooling between each; however, no idea where I got that from.

Googling "burnish drum brake" for clarity returned links to different sources that recommend "30/30/30" - 30 stops from 30 mph with a 30-second cooling period between each; one also recommended deceleration not greater than 12 ft./sec. (i.e. quite gentle).

still losing pressure from the front tyre but valve is not the culprit
View attachment 780717
Can't help with the pressure loss but I advise against the valve nut in this position - if the tyre starts to creep around the rim for any reason, it'll drag the tube with it; valve not secured with the nut, the creeping tyre/tube will show first as the valve not vertical; otoh, valve secured as it your photo., first you'll know about a creeping tyre/tube is when the tyre deflates very rapidly, because the valve's ripped out of the tube ... :oops: (n)

going to give the bike a proper clean
View attachment 780715
Fwiw, have a look online and/or in your local bike shops for:-

... I've had them for decades on my bikes, clamped between the front mudguards themselves and the "Rear stay" where it passes around the 'guards. Flap's 130 mm. wide at the top, widening to 150 mm. max, 170 mm. top to bottom.

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #129 ·
Hi Eli,

Assuming the correct 8" version, should be bloody brilliant on your bike - same brake on the front of my T150 (which goes a lot faster and weighs around 70 lbs. more than your bike); while it isn't as good as a disc, it's still pretty good ... and this is with the front brake switch that's alleged to affect the brake ... :cool:

Educated guess the 'restorer' just bunged-in new shoes, never either arced the shoes to the drum or burnished the brake? :rolleyes:

"arced the shoes to the drum"
When drum brakes were more common, new shoes or linings fitted, it was common (standard?) to assemble the shoes on the brake plate and turn the assembly in a lathe so the linings were concentric with the axle/spindle. Now, many drum-brake assemblers seem to think this happens by magic ...

Check for failure of this magic by: covering the linings with chalk, spinning the brake assembly in the drum for a few turns with the brake applied then re-examining the linings; risking stating the obvious, where the chalk remains on the lining indicates lining that never touched the drum ...

If the linings need turning but a lathe isn't available, more-time-consuming but equally-effective is:-

. Stick sandpaper around the drum, chalk the brake linings again, assemble the brake in the drum, rotate the assembly for a few turns with the brake applied.

. Risking stating the obvious, because of the dust generated, do this wearing a mask and clothes you can wash straight after.

. Remove the brake from the drum and examine the linings - you should see some of the chalk has been removed by the sandpaper.

. Repeat 'til the sandpaper's removed all the chalk from the linings - then "the shoes are arced to the drum". (y) The workshop manual also advises tapering the leading and trailing edges of each lining by an extra 1/2" length and 1/8" maximum depth.

. Clean out the dust from the drum, remove and discard the sandpaper, clean out the adhesive, reassemble the brake, throw away the mask, wash the clothes you were wearing.

"burnished the brake"
Once the shoes are arced to the drum, take the bike to a quiet stretch of straight road on a dry day. No other vehicles around, I've always done ten stops from 50 mph with a minute's cooling between each, followed by half-an-hour's cooling then ten stops from 70 mph with a minute's cooling between each; however, no idea where I got that from.

Googling "burnish drum brake" for clarity returned links to different sources that recommend "30/30/30" - 30 stops from 30 mph with a 30-second cooling period between each; one also recommended deceleration not greater than 12 ft./sec. (i.e. quite gentle).


Can't help with the pressure loss but I advise against the valve nut in this position - if the tyre starts to creep around the rim for any reason, it'll drag the tube with it; valve not secured with the nut, the creeping tyre/tube will show first as the valve not vertical; otoh, valve secured as it your photo., first you'll know about a creeping tyre/tube is when the tyre deflates very rapidly, because the valve's ripped out of the tube ... :oops: (n)


Fwiw, have a look online and/or in your local bike shops for:-

... I've had them for decades on my bikes, clamped between the front mudguards themselves and the "Rear stay" where it passes around the 'guards. Flap's 130 mm. wide at the top, widening to 150 mm. max, 170 mm. top to bottom.

Hth.

Regards,
Thanks Stuart. You walked me through the arcing procedure for my 500 and the front brake is a lot more effective than on the 650. I haven't had much time for spannering recently unfortunately but I'm fortunately that the bikes are running well apart from the leaky rocker covers.

I'm amazed at how much rust has appeared on the 650 after riding through winter. On my next free afternoon I'll give it a proper clean.

And I loosened the valve retainer nut, thanks for the tip!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #130 ·
Any reason I shouldn't mount the remote oil filter sideways under the battery box? I'll use stainless zip ties with some oil resistant foam backing added to secure the filter assembly to the frame and make up a proper mount with a u clamp later on

Motor vehicle Hood Automotive tire Wood Bumper
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
209 Posts
Attached is an old article (2009) from R.F.Whatley detailing a very clean installation below the swing arm area.

I mounted a Tri-Cor (small, vertical filter using the Trident small cylindrical filters) to the vertical frame support, right about where your hand is holding the vertical frame in the picture. It fit well without interfering with anything.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #132 ·
Attached is an old article (2009) from R.F.Whatley detailing a very clean installation below the swing arm area.

I mounted a Tri-Cor (small, vertical filter using the Trident small cylindrical filters) to the vertical frame support, right about where your hand is holding the vertical frame in the picture. It fit well without interfering with anything.
Thanks for this. I'm going to make a better bracket than the one I have before the weekend to get it to fit between the swing arm and the center stand.

I've found a pair of alloy mudguards for sale in France, I think they're repro ones made by speedwell. Part numbers are 82-5955 and 97-1687 which is 1964-66 but the seller says they will fit as they are undrilled so could be drilled to fit the stays on my bike. Is this correct?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #133 ·
Here's how I want to get the tank to look, but with alloy / stainless mudguards

I'll spray some orange patches over the grey, then a few coats of a matt red then sand it down in a few areas

Tire Wheel Fuel tank Automotive fuel system Vehicle
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,353 Posts
Hi Eli,
I mounted a Tri-Cor (small, vertical filter using the Trident small cylindrical filters) to the vertical frame support, right about where your hand is holding the vertical frame in the picture. It fit well without interfering with anything.
(y) Same on my 500.

found a pair of alloy mudguards for sale in France
Bear in mind the twin vibes split steel 'guards, ally splits easier ... (n) You might want to consider mounting the 'guards Japanese-style - grommet through a big hole in the 'guard so there's rubber against both 'guard surfaces and the edge of the hole; steel bush through the centre of the grommet, bush ID for the mounting bolt, bush length slightly more than the thickness of the grommet, so you can tighten the nut 'n' bolt through the bush and any mounting but the bush prevents the nut 'n' bolt squashing the grommet = vibe-isolated 'guard. (y)

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #135 ·
Hi Eli,

(y) Same on my 500.


Bear in mind the twin vibes split steel 'guards, ally splits easier ... (n) You might want to consider mounting the 'guards Japanese-style - grommet through a big hole in the 'guard so there's rubber against both 'guard surfaces and the edge of the hole; steel bush through the centre of the grommet, bush ID for the mounting bolt, bush length slightly more than the thickness of the grommet, so you can tighten the nut 'n' bolt through the bush and any mounting but the bush prevents the nut 'n' bolt squashing the grommet = vibe-isolated 'guard. (y)

Hth.

Regards,
Thanks Stuart, that's a nice idea.

I'll order the mudguards as soon as funds allow. Red paint is easier on the pocket so will make
do with a cheaky respray for Spring.

Of course I used aluminium to fashion a bracket for the oil filter 🤦‍♂️ I'll keep an eye on it

Automotive lighting Automotive tire Motor vehicle Headgear Idiophone
 
121 - 136 of 136 Posts
Top