[EliTR6]

I found an old ammeter in the box of bits that came with the bike. It carries current but gauge doesn't work. Anyone know where I can find the same gauge? All the replica LU36403 look like they're the same depth as the new one and I could do with a little more clearance.

I got my test rig set up (on +ve ground) and everything works, relays clicking away happily.

I need to better protect the relay pins from shorts. I'm afraid it's probably going to be a tape jobbie.

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Eli,

Not sure how a relay is going to squeeze in as well.

The electrics in my T100's headlamp shell are apart for another reason, I'll try and get some corresponding photos. to yours in the next day or so.

Nevertheless, some suggestions:-

. Cut away the insulation tape, cut the braid back to closer to the grommet; then you'll be able to spread the individual wires closer to the sides of the shell, I try to leave as much space as possible in the middle of the shell as that's where the headlamp bulb and plug will go.

As a rule-of-thumb, I make the headlamp wires just long enough that the headlamp will sit on the front 'guard under it's own weight when out of the shell, but not so long the headlamp can slip off the 'guard and bang against it, which might break a bulb filament. 🤬 Risking stating the obvious, if - when the headlamp's out of the shell - the headlamp wires are on top of any other wires in the bottom of the shell, when you fit the headlamp in the shell, its wires shouldn't pull up other wires and make fitting difficult.

new warning lamps on the way

The 'shades' in your photos. are intriguing - originals just pushed into the holes in the shell. Original bulb holders pushed inside the 'shades' as the ones in your photos. do but had two wires, one direct to the terminal under the bulb, the other crimped and soldered in a terminal on the bottom edge of the holder, so no spade terminals for the headlamp reflector possibly to catch on.

The "restorer" didn't do you any favours ... as you've seen, not even the correct range!

could do with a little more clearance.

Is the new headlamp reflector touching the ends of the Ammeter terminals? If not, fwiw my T100 also has one of those pattern Ammeters, no problems with the headlamps I've tried so far. Although, as I posted earlier, I do cover as much of the Ammeter terminals as possible with heatshrink.

need to better protect the relay pins from shorts.

On the T100, I've used Trailing Relay Socket.

Hth.

Regards,

 

[EliTR6]

Cheers Stuart

Test fit has been successful, I'm calling it a night!

I need to tidy-up the dining room table before my wife gets home

Pilot light

Dipped

Full beam!

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Eli,

Test fit has been successful,

need to tidy-up the dining room table before my wife gets home

Regards,

 

[EliTR6]

Here's how it all squeezes in together. The relays both have 7.5A fuses.

I'm thinking of drilling a couple of holes for the idiot lamps between the gauges

I've got a few mystery wires... White is an ignition live, the brown an earth. Tr6c NO kill switch connections?

These two don't register anywhere, no ground, no power. I've tried with a multimeter and a test lamp. Answers on the back of a postcard please.

The ignition warning lamp is a live feed and a ground so removing it shouldn't stop the bike from running.

My taillight works fine but I can't find the connector for the speedo lamps anywhere (should be brown and green). To be continued...

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Eli,

thinking of drilling a couple of holes for the idiot lamps between the gauges

As you intend to use the bike year-round, bear in mind the electrical connections will be out in the rain and spray coming at the front of the bike.

Your bike's headlamp shell is a modified '71-'78. Originals have only the lighting switch hole and three idiot lamp holes; your bike's shell has had the centre idiot lamp hole opened out for the Ammeter, is why the remaining idiot lamp holes are so close to the Ammeter.

The downside I found with the correct pre-'71 shell is it only has one wiring hole in the bottom. Not a problem normally on pre-'71 Triumphs because they have few handlebar switches to be connected and don't have indicators. However, when I build a loom for a Triumph, not only do I split the wires to/from the frame, I certainly wanted indicators on my T100. That'd come with a '71-'78 shell, I thought about modifying it for an Ammeter but instead decided to replace it with a correct pre-'71 shell and have two more wiring holes in that.

View attachment 774030
mystery wires... White is an ignition live, the brown an earth.

Uh-uh, you're confusing Brown with the unswitched 'not-earth' on other British vehicles?

On bikes, while White is still switched by the ignition, Brown is only to the rear lamp brake filament from its switch(es). As those two connections are by the top yoke, they're for the front brake switch, which was built into the cable as standard.

Tr6c NO kill switch connections?

If you're looking at the correct parts book for a '70 UK & General Export 650 (99-0901), the TR6C was still a US-only version and, although the kill switch was more widely-available and fitted than just to the TR6C, it's only illustrated/listed on the TR6C pages of the '70 US 650 parts book (99-0903 Part 1, pages 76/77). It's a push-to-break button, two White wires (originally), connects at the bullet connector in the White wire from ignition switch to coils -ve.

View attachment 774031
These two don't register anywhere, no ground, no power. I've tried with a multimeter and a test lamp.

Indicator wires - Green/Red is left indicators, Green/White is right.

They're even present in all original Lucas '70 looms; most '70 grabrails have mountings for rear indicators (7/16" hole in the triangular gussets between horizontal "lifting handle" and semi-circular passenger grab hoop behind the seat); otoh, the bikes lack front indicator mountings and looms lack the Light Green/Brown wire to connect indicator relay (positioned under the seat '71-on) to handlebar switch. I've never managed to discover what was going on during 1969 that left fitting indicators half-done.

View attachment 774032
The ignition warning lamp is a live feed and a ground so removing it shouldn't stop the bike from running.

Your bike doesn't have an "ignition warning lamp" ...

If you're using either of the wiring diagrams in the '63-'70 Triumph 650 Workshop manual captioned, "... all models from DU66246 ...", be aware your manual is (the common ) one missing the wiring diagrams "... from DU85904 ..." ('69) and/or "from HD23795 ..." ('70). These show the red idiot lamp is "OIL PRESSURE WARNING LIGHT" with a White wire and a Red/Green (i.e. not the left indicators wires) wire, the latter from the lamp to the switch in the front edge of the timing cover.

From your photo., would I be right in thinking dear Wassell have put a White/Red (electric-start ...) wire in your bike's loom from bulb to switch?

If you want a correct wiring diagram online for your bike, there's a small one in the Triumph '70 650 Owner's Handbook or bigger ones in the Triumph 350/500 Workshop Manual (identical electrics), "HH" addendum section.

can't find the connector for the speedo lamps anywhere (should be brown and green).
View attachment 774024

Wassell's 'quality control' ... The above photo. shows a Brown/Green wire straight from the main loom to a spade terminal of the lighting switch (left side of your photo.). That spade terminal should've had a second short Brown/Green wire crimped into it, that short wire terminating in a bullet; original speedo. ('n' tacho.) bulb wires had similar bullets to connect.

Risking stating the obvious, because the speedo. bracket's rubber-mounted, try for a bulb holder with both -ve and +ve wires or you'll have to run a separate Red wire from the speedo. to an existing Red wires' snap connector.

all squeezes in together. The relays both have 7.5A fuses.

Hth.

Regards,

 

[EliTR6]

Thanks Stuart

I'll have a proper read through your post this evening as I've been drafted into familial duties. Mini is back on its wheels and I am relegated to the back seat with the boy riding shotgun.

The 650 was a pig to start this morning, I pulled the plugs and they were jet black and soaking wet, carb overflow started pissing petrol as soon as the tap was opened.

Started after letting the plugs dry out then ran very badly, sounded lean to me, wouldn't idle but ran roughly if I kept the rpm over 2k and backfired before cutting out twice.

The choke lever on the mikuni felt stiffer than before too.

I haven't touched the timing or the ignition side of the electrics and the overflowing fuel points to a sticking float so I'll start there.

Carb was fitted about 10 years but only 300mi ago so I hope it's just some crud or old fuel blocking the way and that it's an easy fix once I've pulled it off the bike.

 

[GrandPaulZ]

The 650 was a pig to start this morning, I pulled the plugs and they were jet black and soaking wet, carb overflow started pissing petrol as soon as the tap was opened.

Started after letting the plugs dry out then ran very badly, sounded lean to me, wouldn't idle but ran roughly if I kept the rpm over 2k and backfired before cutting out twice.

The choke lever on the mikuni felt stiffer than before too.

I haven't touched the timing or the ignition side of the electrics and the overflowing fuel points to a sticking float so I'll start there.

Carb was fitted about 10 years but only 300mi ago so I hope it's just some crud or old fuel blocking the way and that it's an easy fix once I've pulled it off the bike.

Get a one-gallon can of Berryman's Chem-Dip and put it wherever you have to to warm it up. Bring it into the house (sealed) for a few hours, then put it in a paint bucket and pour a couple gallons of hot water in the bucket till it comes near the top of the sealed can. Let it sit about a half hour, the water should still be lukewarm. Disassemble the carb while waiting.

Take the can outside and carefully "crack" it open, with the screwdriver prying the side of the lid AWAY from you, to expel the pressure without if splattering in your face or on your clothes.

Dip the carb body and all the metallic parts in the little dipping basket and let it soak 30 minutes. While it's soaking, pour a couple more gallons of water from a garden hose into the paint bucket. Find a pair of safety goggles or, better, a face shield. Put on a pair of old overalls if you have some, or a shop smock, whatever. Oh, yeah, rubber / nitrile gloves.

When the 30 minutes is up, draw out the parts basket and dunk it repeatedly in the water. Using a garden sprayer pistol on the hose, spray off each part, especially concentrating on every orifice you can find on the carb.

Repeat the above step with a compressed air nozzle, blast that carb body out thoroughly. Also blast the main & low speed jets. Peer thru the jets and you should see clear thru.

Reassemble & re-install the carb, fire up the bike and have a fun ride. Shut off the fuel a few hundred feet from home, and let the bike starve itself of fuel. If you do this every time you ride, you shouldn't have to clean the carb again for a couple of years at least.

Oh, you might want to do a "plug chop", just to get some idea of your running condition WITH NEW PLUGS:

Take a spark plug socket, ratchet, and rag with you. Run up through the gears at moderate revs, then a simultaneous pull in the clutch, letting off the throttle, and killing the engine via kill switch/button or turn the key off.

Pull BOTH plugs. They should look the exactly the same on a single-carb bike.
Black / wet - oil fouled. Could be worn valve stems / guides, or worn rings.
Black / sooty - fuel rich. Lower the needle one notch by raising the needle clip one notch.
Tan-Gray - good burn.
Dry White - lean fuel. Raise the needle one notch (lower needle clip one notch).

Bada-Bing.

 

[EliTR6]

Cheers gpz. Sunday here and I'm still being held hostage in the rear of the mini.

I'll see what gunk I can find to dip the carb components this week. I've got some carb cleaner in the shed too

Here's a photo of the plug from this morning.

 

[EliTR6]

Quick checkup with carb still on the bike :

Quite a lot of crud in here

Looks like a piece of metallic paint, neither the colour of the old nor the new tank. Weird

Ethanol eating away at the float?

The float arm is at a different height each side

More crud here

My carb should be a vm32. I'm going to order a generic gasket kit and pull it apart ASAP.

In more positive news, first proper drive in this beauty for a long time this afternoon. Va va vroom!

 

[GrandPaulZ]

Yep, that carb needs a total overhaul.

Love the sports car, but I'm not able to easily identify all but a very few of the classics...

 

[EliTR6]

Yep, that carb needs a total overhaul.

Love the sports car, but I'm not able to easily identify all but a very few of the classics...

I've ordered a new gasket and seals for the carb along with new floats and float arm. Will continue taking it apart this evening if I can free up some time.

Car is a triumph TR3 and predates many of our bikes... 1956 but very light and surprisingly powerful.

I'm having a bit of a brain fart with my head retorque

I need to remove the head steadies and retorque the nuts underneath, is this correct?

And there is no need to remove the rocker boxes is there? I've read about people squeezing spanners through the valve adjustment openings. Was this for earlier bikes?

 

[Mick Barratt]

Yes, you need to remove the head steadies for re-torquing if you are using sockets. Those are not nuts down below, but special studs with a hex head on them. If you don't have deep sockets, you may have to do something inventive to tighten those studs.
HTH

 

[GrandPaulZ]

...there is no need to remove the rocker boxes is there? I've read about people squeezing spanners through the valve adjustment openings. Was this for earlier bikes?

For later bikes.

 

[EliTR6]

Thanks Mick and GPZ

More news on the carb front... Pilot jet is blocked with debris and the baffle plate looks diseased

 

[GrandPaulZ]

More news on the carb front... Pilot jet is blocked with debris and the baffle plate looks diseased

View attachment 774164

That's the main, but definitely part of the problem. You need an in-line fuel filter.

The low speed jet takes a thin screwdriver down the tunnel just below the main jet in the top photo you posted. It's a lot skinnier.

AFTER you soak all the parts in Chem-Dip, rinse and blast dry, if the low speed jet didn't clear, just pull a strand from a wire brush with a pair of pliers, straighten it out, carefully ensure the end is cut clean (use the smoother end, whichever) and slowly push thru the clog while twisting the wire.

 

[EliTR6]

That's the main, but definitely part of the problem. You need an in-line fuel filter.

The low speed jet takes a thin screwdriver down the tunnel just below the main jet in the top photo you posted. It's a lot skinnier.

AFTER you soak all the parts in Chem-Dip, rinse and blast dry, if the low speed jet didn't clear, just pull a strand from a wire brush with a pair of pliers, straighten it out, carefully ensure the end is cut clean (use the smoother end, whichever) and slowly push thru the clog while twisting the wire.

Thanks GPZ. Still haven't found a chem dip equivalent here but have been busy with the carb cleaner. I'll pick up an inline fuel filter, check the flow is still OK and run the fuel down and flush the tank out.

I made two mistakes with the new tank : I didn't clean inside before fitting and I carried out over half a tank of fuel from the old one. Hopefully others can learn from this!

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Eli,

jet is blocked with debris

I'll pick up an inline fuel filter,

Don't the taps have filters already? If they do and without holes, how is the debris getting from the tank to the carb.?

Regards,

 

[EliTR6]

Hi Eli,

Don't the taps have filters already? If they do and without holes, how is the debris getting from the tank to the carb.?

Regards,

Hi Stuart

The filters looked OK when I fitted the old taps to the new tank. Is there a rubber seal inside the petcocks that could have dried out/or been broken down by ethanol in the fuel over time?

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Eli,

Is there a rubber seal inside the petcocks that could have dried out/or been broken down by ethanol in the fuel over time?

Uh-uh. Original chromed taps had soldered-on metal gauze filters, later ally taps (usually Italian-made) had/have glued-in or screw-in plastic gauze filters. Possibly that crap had been swilling around in the carb. before you got the bike, running out drew more into the jet?

Hth.

Regards,